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Discussion Starter #1
There has been a lot of talk about electric vehicles the last few years. Many people are touting this as the best thing to happen to transportation in years. As for me, not so fast. What do you think ? ...J.D.
 

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Will be great when battery tech catches up. They are pushing that hard but there is only so much you can do. Best idea i have heard is a very small and very efficient generator on a military E-bike. The small generator runs constantly. You park your bike and it charges the battery all the time. The vehicles are basically commuter platforms right now. Drive to work. Charge vehicle while at work. Drive home. Charge overnight. Repeat. Until they get the charge times down I can not see me ever being able to justify one. I do love the concept though.
 

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I'm surprised it isn't a little more mainstream already.
I know the guy in this video is pretty excited about it...
 

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Well I'm waiting for "many people" to find out what the replacement batteries cost for these things. Spend how much for whatever one and how far can you go? how long for a full recharge? I climb in my old 180,000 mile Astro Van with a full tank can go about 400 mi. before I have to refill. In 15 min I can clean the windshield fill the tank, pee, and be back on the road.


"Many people" also purchased Edsel's, Pinto's, & Vega's (among others) in the past.



K
 

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I drive less than 5K per year with my car, almost all local. If they sold an electric for less than $20K and it could be small, I would own one instead of my Chevy HHR. A compact PU truck would be ideal for me. If I want thrills and performance, I ride my bike. Don't care anymore about cars. Although I would like another MGB or an original rat rod from CA. The problem with electric cars and charging is that the residential infrastructure to charge millions of electric batteries doesn't exist. It's not like keeping a car or motorcycle battery on a float charger. The present generation of power is not there to meet the demand if it became universally accepted. The infrastructure can't be left behind or forgotten in the equation of the viability of electric cars. Perhaps a solar charging system would need to be designed as part of the vehicle to keep the batteries charged while parked. I suppose that wouldn't work within a parking garage or at night.

In my view the whole power grid is archaic and trying to develop a new technology using it is just going backwards and very costly for upgrading the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I haven't bought in to the concept of electric vehicles yet. Here in California, gasoline IS expensive, but so is electric. We pay 16¢ a KWH for power. I wonder what it really costs to charge an electric car. They market them like "they run for free", but they don't. Of course I hear the environmental argument. "Cleaner running", but you have to factor in the yuck the powerplant (mostly natural gas here) put in to the air to charge the thing. Right now I'm of the opinion that it is just a way for the automotive companies to sell you "something new", while at the same time supporting the power and petroleum industries. As I said, I haven't been convinced yet. Keep talking all you salesmen out there. The off-gassing from the marketing industry B.S. is what REALLY makes the world go round. ...J.D.
 

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My wife bought a new Tesla Model S 90D (90kw dual motors - all wheel drive). I wasn't too hot about it when she bought it but now I'm in love with it. Yes, it cost a little more than my Porsche Cayman S, but it's a little faster too. Handles well - all the batteries are down on the chassis. We've taken 3 long trips (LA to Sonoma) and no problems, great road car - and we used the Auto Pilot most of the time.

I hooked up a 220v hook up in our garage and we charge it a night while the rates are lower. Of course on the road we use the free Tesla Supercharger and now even out local Trader Joe's has free Tesla charging.
 

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My goodness. Sounds like that Trender-Joe's is near SoDoSoPa.
 

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I'll jump in to defend the environmental benefits, though they are still mostly conjectural at the moment. Even if the power generation is still dirty, and battery component sourcing is not ethically superior to petrochemical sourcing (the same corruption, victims, environmental impacts), electric vehicles will still take out of the equation the consumer pollution which is a large (if not majority, maybe close to half? not sure on the specific percentage) share of the total pollution. It'll help everyone breathe better in the long run. And the other issues might be solved or not, who knows, but the way we live now isn't sustainable, period. You might not live to deal with the consequences but humanity will; just might not live through them.

Off the soapbox; onto the paranoia trip:

My fear is autonomous vehicles. They'll work best if ALL vehicles are autonomous, communicating with each other, being predictable, working off the same set of rules. My guess is in twenty, thirty, forty years, however long it takes for a critical mass of autonomous vehicles to get on the road, motorcycles will become illegal because the human agent will be a danger to the other people jerking off in their hands free cars.

End rant.
 

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I am waiting for practical electric bikes to become viable.

The idea of a big flat torque curve that begins from 0RPM to max revs I reckon would be something to make you grin. :)

Not sure they are that practical yet for wider public consumption but the rate of progress over the last few years has been pretty steep.

The IoM bike race started in 1907 and the first 100 mph lap wasn't hit until 1957.

They started racing electric bikes there in 2010 and by 2012 they were averaging 100+ mph. Of course the downside is they only run one lap of the 38 mile course (the petrol bikes run 4-6 laps) but the rate of improvement each year is a good indication there is still a lot of unreleased potential in the technology.

There are plans to run an electric bike series alongside the MotoGP in a year or two. https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/129290/motogp-plans-electric-support-series-by-2019

Racing has always driven technological progress in vehicles and there is a huge push by China to move to electric vehicles (a massive domestic market) which will be a big incentive for researchers and manufacturers to improve battery technology - who knows what improvements may come in the next 10 years?

200 mile range? convenient charging (or maybe simple battery swaps)? cheaper running costs? get things like that happening and it would be a game changer.

I just would like to know what riding a bike with 100+ mph capacity that provided full torque from a standing start and no need for a clutch or gears would be like :D
 

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I owned a mini Corvette. The Vega. Can you guess at what mileage the engine scored its cylinder walls and needed a new engine?
The mini Corvette was the Chevette. :grin2: If I remember there was a minor :laughhard problem with the Vega engine but it was easily cured by dropping in a 350.:smile2: While I don't remember the exact mileage the problem occurred at it but it was relatively low. Engines were improperly cast. A few years later GM had a problem with 350 engine cores shifting and damaging the cam:Not again


K

Bet you forgot Motor Trend magazines 1971 Car of the Year was the Chevrolet Vega:jawdrop
 

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The Vega looked more like a mini Corvette(sort of), the Chevette was a boxy econo looking car. The Vega engine on my car lasted to 87K miles before imploding. Cylinder bores would score and the car became a mosquito fogger out the exhaust. Chevy at the time was willing to install a new engine for half the cost to me. I said no and sold the car to a guy who thought all that smoke billowing out the rear just indicated the carb needed an adjustment. Who was I to argue. I guess i should have bought a Vega with the Cosworth engine, but I did not buy new so I don't feel so bad.
 

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As far as electric vehicles go, if no one sticks a toe in the water to create a new technology that may or may not be wanted by the buying public, the technology will go no where. Relying on status quo naysayers doesn't bring about any change, whether good, bad or neutral. I believe we need more Elon Musks in all aspects of technology to deal with ever growing issues in this very crowded world that we live in. I never thought that the taxi industry in NYC with its high priced medallion platform would be challenged by a cell phone app. Or a maker of alternative powered cars would be sending cargo up to the orbiting space station. Not all inventions are a benefit to human kind(atomic bomb), but I'm all for innovation that can deal with pressing global issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I hooked up a 220v hook up in our garage and we charge it a night while the rates are lower. Of course on the road we use the free Tesla Supercharger and now even out local Trader Joe's has free Tesla charging.
Do you know what it costs per charge ?

Someone said the way we are doing things now (fossil fuels) is not sustainable. This is a no brainer. If it were, I could listen to the lovely sounds internal combustion engines make until I die. I love that more than any musical instrument.

I suppose if we could recharge plug-ins from solar power that would be the best solution given the current technology available. Here in California we are the leaders in solar power, but that is not without it's problems. The buy in cost is expensive (buy or lease, you are still paying for the solar). Payback is dreadful for me. In July, I had my highest electric bill in years ! It was still only $87 for the month. I have spent a lot on energy upgrade. I use less than half what it used back in the 90's. You cannot have solar or wind generation here and be disconnected from the power grid. The local authorities will not allow it. I guess we just have to see where we are going from here. ...J.D.
 

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According to Tesla charts to go 199mi. the recharge cost is $9.06 at $0.12 per kWh on the S model. $0.12 / kWh is slightly higher than the $0.105 I pay.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
According to Tesla charts to go 199mi. the recharge cost is $9.06 at $0.12 per kWh on the S model. $0.12 / kWh is slightly higher than the $0.105 I pay.
So they are claiming 75kwh is a full charge. I pay So.Cal Edison 16¢ per kwh as long as I stay in the lowest tier below 515kwh.. The higher tiers come in at .25¢ Tier 2 and .31¢ for tier 3. (That includes all thier hidden fees and surcharges). We do not have lower rates at night or off hours here. I am a retired engineer. I run a spreadsheet on energy costs. If I charged a vehicle, that would put me in one of the the higher tier rates. So far I am not interested in anything made by Tesla. Just not "my bag". I don't buy expensive cars. More money to invest in other things. Interesting to talk to others about these things though. ...J.D.
 

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If every electric vehicle manufacturer has to be sustained by goverment subsidies(like Tesla) then electric cars and bikes will never become a major part of sales.
 
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