[johnyC]

guys,

I removed the Ai and found the benefits in the low speed running, as George mentioned in another thread. This in itself is definitely worth doing.

Having done a 'straight through' airbox gutting on a carb'd Scrambler, with considerable gains, I just did the same to my efi Bonnie (they have the same airbox) It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: I'm not suggesting anyone does the same, just reporting what I did. ok, erse covered.

The Scrambler required re-jetting and dyno runs to check it, but I haven't done any dyno runs on the T100 yet. I'm rather hoping that the closed loop system on the efi bike will have compensated for the extra air the motor is now getting. I will have it checked as soon as I get the chance, to make sure the a/f is ok, but the bike goes like the clappers so it shouldn't be that far out.

Derek (fieldsheer) changed his exhausts and got about 5hp more, with no efi map change, nor need of it. If I need another map I'll have it installed, but the way the bike goes I don't think it'll need it (big increase from 4,000 to 7,000, pulls hard in 4th from 2,500)

So far, the cost of these improvements has been £00.00, not a bean. The modified standard paper air filter may not be very good after a soaking, we shall see. If so I'll put in a unifilter like I did on the Scrambler.

airbox lhs:

airbox rhs:

modified air filter:

got a tune out of the Ai valve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVe27sj7pJI

 

[propforward]

Schweet!

The efi mods are coming along nicely now!

 

[LuckyBonnie]

Yes Indeedy

So glad that some of the guys here have the pioneering spirit...the news of better driveability down low is the clincher for me to remove the AI as i find my throttle response in 1st and 2nd. to be a neck snapping experience with the TORS map.
Ted

 

[Ventura]

Nice one Johny!!

Keep the flag flying!

BTW.... There's still a couple of stacks here for you to try!



V.

 

[biker7]

I haven't had the stones to gut the airbox yet but it maybe in the cards if the results are there. Johny...did you remove the baffle in the box as well?
Thanks,
George
PS: Did it change the sound quality?

 

[johnyC]

airbox thread

George,

At the end of the wee vid', the snorkel and baffle go ceremonially on the floor. The whys and wherefores of all this were gone over at some length, when I went through the mill last time.

It's all in here:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/97291-scrambler-airbox-mod-part2.html

The intake sound hasn't change a lot, unless you're grabbing a big handful. You don't notice it riding along normally.

Ventura,

I'll skip the venturi for now, thanks anyway though.

 

[biker7]

Thanks Johny. Do you plan on doing a dyno run on your new EFI bonny in the future? What exhausts are you running?
Thanks,
George

 

[Dave2001]

Nice shed!

 

[Gob-ny-geay]

+1 +1 +1 on the dual filter entrance plus airbox gut. Huge, very nice, noticable difference. For the measly $25 bucks more, I would highly recommend the Mikuni Velocity Stacks. As we have found through documented experimentation, and real riding trials, the Dynamometer doesn't reveal all, nor does it do it justice.

You'll have the 'box off anyway, so a few minutes more of modding...

Either way, your choice, thanks for another fine post JohnyC.

 

[johnyC]

dyno run

George,

No time to do a dyno run this time home, maybe in a couple of weeks when I get back from work. The bike runs beautifully and goes like snot, so I only want to do a power run to have some documented proof of this. I found the bike just revving away in top on the motorway today, had me constantly looking for '6th', so next on the shopping list is a 19t sprocket.

The pipes are standard but bafflectomised, I'll be keeping them because I like the overall tone of them plus the airbox. I'm also well content with the performance as it is now. I rode Frank Black's Bonnie, which has Togas (they're a bit too loud for me) when I was out for a run today with him.

'Frank Black', Frank Gault, me:

Bonnie selection:

At Wheelcraft, Campsie Glen:

 

[biker7]

Great pics. Thanks for sharing.
Great work on your bike as well...ain't easy to baffectomize (word?)
those pipes either. Love the red and silver.
Cheers,
George

 

[johnyC]

efi bafflectomy

George,

I did a 'how to' a few weeks ago:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/110602-efi-bonnie-bafflectomy.html#post1272516

 

[FrankBlack]

Johny, I have a 19T front sprocket on mine and I can't say it's helped much to eliminate that need for a 6th gear. I still routinely try to change up from 5th!

By the way, I thought you did a great job removing the baffles. The pipes looked so well finished that I thought they came out the factory that way.

Glad you're happy with your new bike.

 

[Gob-ny-geay]

Just a quick note on the bafflectomy subject.

Assume a 1 1/4 inch diameter end pipe after the baffleectomy, which is great.

Now, in order to match that diameter, you would need to provide a total area of 1 1/4 inches clear in the next baffle plate.

Note that the next baffle plate already has a roughly 3/4 inch (17mm) opening.

Using the formula of pi times radius squared equals the area of a circle, you would need just over 21 1/4 inch holes to drill with an extended twist drill bit in each baffle to achieve equal area.

That known, I purchased a 3/4 inch remgrit, course grit edged hole saw. Hacksaw the holesaw chuck bit and about 1/8" of the tube off the back end. Now weld the bit to one end of a 1/2 inch (13mm) by 12 inch long bar stock, and the actual holesaw tube to the other end of the bar.

Now you have a nice, 12 inch extended holesaw fixture, and it takes about 10 minutes to drill 3 X 3/4 inch holes in the second baffle plate of each silencer.

This now matches the second baffle plate open area with the outlet pipe, and reduces any restrictions considerably. The area of the total of 4 three quarter inch holes equals the area of the end pipe of the silencer. When finished, you can see clear on through to the inlet side of the silencer, so I'm hard convinced that you can improve much on that!

Sound is improved, slightly more heard at idle, much more at acceleration, but stock quiet (or maybe just a bit more) at cruising speeds. I don't think it's an offensive or loud sound at all, and my son says it sounds a lot more like my old Bonneville.

The cutting and welding took about an hour tops. You need to order the 3/4 Remgrit through Harbor Frieght, or Home Depot, unless others have better sources.

Sounds great, you result in a less restrictive exhaust yet it still provides some means of returning exhaust pulse waves for better scavenging, and you get to keep the beautiful Chrome and stock "stealth" look of the pea-shooters.

All without having a loud, raspy, or otherwise offensive exhaust sound. Can't beat that.

BTY, mines a 2007 Bonnie, so results may vary, as they say. I have mucho pics, but I'm traveling (in Japan) at the moment, and the pics are on my home computer. Back in 2 weeks.

Bob

 

[johnyC]

airbox, etc. update.

guys,

I tried Togas but couldn't get on with the noise on long runs, so put the bafflectomised stockers back on. The bike did go better with the Togas, but I've traded the bit extra poke for a quiet life.

Anyhow, had a 'quicky' dyno run done today to see whereabouts I was with the standard map. The a/f was in the low 14's and flat across the rev range, power was 60.5 at the wheel. The fuelling is on the weak side though, the closed loop compensation has not been enough it seems, so I'm having another map installed tomorrow morning.

I'll be doing that on my way to work for two weeks, so no chance of further dyno-ing till I get back. If I get the map in ok I'll try and post a report here on how it goes.

As regards any possible cat-astrophes, I'm sticking it out on this one so we can see what actually happens with one of these bikes when the Ai is binned. 3,500 miles now and still ok, but if anything goes wrong I'll let you know.

 

[biker7]

Hi Johny,
Good report thanks. As to silencers...either stick with your debaffled stockers which have a nice sound or simply get Tors like I have which are about perfect...the factory guys got the sound about right if you don't like a loud bike though other pipes flow better. Other thing is your stock silencers which could double as boat anchors because of their heft may also have cats inside. The Togas are reported to sound great baffled which can be retrofitted with some basic JC Whitney baffles...Richard PM'ed me today about his in fact but unbaffled they are reported to be a bit loud.
As to hp and fueling...sounds about right. The stock map sounds 1/2a point to a full point too lean for A/F for optimal hp which makes sense with the stock map. The pipes have little to do with it and being closed loop is almost incidental...A/F being iterated back to the A/F setting based upon the stock map. Have you decided what map you are going to load Johny? Many like the Arrow 2 into 1 map. Other options are PCIII or Tuneboy...the latter allows tweaking the factory maps for even more tayloring.
I need to change my base map at some point as well but it makes sense that the factory map is a hint richer than stoich but not rich enough to make ideal hp...good for fuel economy and emissions though.
Cheers,
George

 

[Phild28]

Hi Johny,
Pity you didn't get on with the NH TOGAS, I love the look and sound of mine - but I wear tuneable earplugs all the time (being a guitar picker I look after the ears).

The results you are getting are pretty much what I sensed through riding my bike through similar changes, it felt a tad weak with the base map, Tors map better but snatchy, arrow 2 into 1 perfect.

Dick was saying somewhere that when he was experimenting with the airbox, just via freer filter and snorkel removal that he seemed to sacrifice some torque for a little more top end so he went back to stock inlet. I didn't notice that with mine, better torque and power - what about you?

Hope the new map is good.
Cheers
Phil

 

[johnyC]

update updated

Phil,

I had the Arrow 2/1 map installed, then rode the bike 200 miles to Aberdeen. I was pushing my luck, legally, seeing how it went in top gear on the 19t sprocket. So I pulled off at Perth and rode the scenic route via Braemar and Royal Deeside. The throttle response is as good as I could want, making the standard map seem a bit 'wooly' by comparison, I was wafting along at 2,000 to 3,000 in top on a wave of torque, with the throttle barely opened. I'm delighted with the way it goes.

re. airbox: When I did the dual entry box on my old carb'd Scrambler, I found nothing but increase, provided the extra air was compensated for by changing jets and needles. If you check the linked thread on page 1 of this thread you can see from the dyno charts. I can't say I noticed any loss on the efi bike with the standard map either, but that's just my perception. It does go better now with the Arrow map which confirms to me that I was a bit weak though

Anyhow, I'm still in the middle of just tinkering with this bike, I'll know better what I've got when I get back on the dyno in a couple of weeks. When I have all the info' I'll post a dyno chart.

ps. Frank Black was at the dyno room with me on Sunday, running up his Harley with pc3 on it. I was very impressed by the amount of adjustment possible with one of those, the fuelling can be adjusted every 250rpm. I'm happy enough plugging away with different maps on my bike as it is, but if you were getting serious about tuning one of these efi bikes I'd say get a Power Commander.

 

[Phild28]

Hi Johny,
thanks for that, it absolutely mirrors what mine is like now + i've got the Togas as well.
Yes that arrow 2 into 1 map is the business with fairly free flowing pipes and airbox, bags of Torque and power and really smooth delivery. Like you if I do no more the bike is good for our roads - expect my intiminators here this week - suspension next. Wish my BMW was running as well something not right causing low-mid range vibes - must get it sorted soon, otherwise it will have to be panniers on the T100 for my trip.
Are you planning any more tweaking?
Phil

 

[biker7]

Thanks Johny...
Looks like I have to get in line and head to my Triumph dealer for the Arrow 2 into 1 map on my T100. Grant aka Xchoppers started with loading that map on his 50th anniv bike with Togas quite a while ago and he knows Triumphs and said the map was great. Since you guys like it, I will have to give it a go. The other maps get panned on occassion but there seems to be a chorus of praise for the Arrow 2 into 1 map on EFI bonnies with all different pipe configurations.
I look forward to your next trip to the dyno Johny and thanks again for sharing your findings with us.
George
PS: I have heard that new maps should be loaded with the bike cold. I have no proof this is the correct procedure but wanted to ask. It may have to do with the calibration of the sensors but not sure. Please let me know if you guys have heard this as well as it makes it a bit more complicated to simply ride to the dealer and have them load the new map on the spot.
Anybody know what the Arrow 2 into 1 map no. is?