Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,
First off, I apologize if I offend anyone. I've been thinking for a while *how* to ask this question without coming across as accusatory as I'm very interested in others' thought process. That being said, I'm a pretty big tree hugger, so I'm trying to recognize my own bias. So please bear with me and know that I'm truly seeking your thoughts and opinion and not trying to sway anyone's opinion.

I'm mainly curious about the thought process of de-catting. Given that it sends more pollutants into the air and makes motorcycles worse for the environment than SUVs in pollutants other than CO2; I'm curious about the thoughts and mental trade-offs.

Discuss! And please everyone, let's just let people state their reasons and not troll. I have strong opinions on it, but am truly here to learn about others.

- Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
I think enhancing your bike's performance in this manner is a fly's flatulence in comparison to daily events such as this story, from The Wall Street Journal:

"A pipeline company is challenging Texas’ practice of allowing drillers to set unwanted natural gas on fire, in a case that could test state limits for how much of the fuel can legally go to waste.

As shale companies turned America into the world’s top oil producer, they unlocked massive quantities of natural gas as a byproduct and Texas has allowed them to freely burn off vast volumes as area pipelines fill up. The process is known as flaring.


A record amount of natural gas is being burned or directly released into the atmosphere in the Permian Basin amid a shortage of pipeline capacity. The practice is relatively rare in the Eagle Ford of South Texas, where infrastructure is more accessible.


Now, shale producer Exco Resources Inc. is seeking to flare nearly all of the gas produced by a group of South Texas wells, even though its operations are already connected to a network of pipelines. Williams Cos., the operator of the pipelines, is challenging the request, in what is believed to be the first such dispute on record.

Williams attorney John Hays Jr. told commissioners in a hearing last month that granting Exco’s request would open the door to wasting gas any time doing so is more profitable than transporting it.

The Texas Railroad Commission has received more than 27,000 requests for flaring permits in the past seven years and has not denied any of them, records show.

“It just doesn’t feel right, quite frankly, to have a standard that says, any time there’s an application, you get an exception,” Mr. Hays said. “Then why have the statute in the first place?”

Exco has said that rejecting the company’s permit application could force a shutdown of the wells. Attorney David Nelson argued at the hearing that doing so potentially would reduce long-term oil production. The company recently emerged from bankruptcy. It declined to provide additional comment.

The case underscores the tensions surfacing in Texas as the state grapples with booming oil production and its side effects. It also exposes a growing rift between frackers and pipeline companies as the natural-gas glut is set to worsen.

Natural-gas pipeline construction in Texas, home to America’s hottest oil field, the Permian Basin, has lagged far behind production growth, in part because producers have been reluctant to commit to long-term contracts. The state’s gas output is expected to increase about 30% over the next five years, according to consulting firm RBN Energy.

In the region’s two largest oil basins, the Permian Basin and Eagle Ford, operators flared or vented—where gas is released without being burned—into the atmosphere an average of about 740 million cubic feet of gas a day during the first quarter, according to public data compiled by energy analytics firm Rystad Energy. That gas would be worth about $1.8 million a day at current prices and produced greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to that of nearly five million cars driving for a day, according to estimates from the World Bank and the Environmental Protection Agency.


Read the last paragraph again and I think this may put your conscience at rest...just sayin'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
....I'm mainly curious about the thought process of de-catting....
The only times I've de-catted is when my bikes' cats were in the exhausts after I put on different exhausts. I did this primarily for improved sound and losing a bit of weight.

Not trying to be judgemental or argumentative myself but IMHO, it's a slippery slope when you own an ICE and try to focus on only one aspect of their negative evironmental impact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Not trying to be judgemental or argumentative myself but IMHO, it's a slippery slope when you own an ICE and try to focus on only one aspect of their negative evironmental impact.
I hear that! It is a slippery slope! That’s why I’m here to listen and learn. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,373 Posts
Well none of my Bikes have Cat's and I seriously doubt I will ever own one with a Cat. As far as they are concerned I remember my 86 VW Golf. It had a Cat but it wasn't needed. Remove it and the vehicle could be easily tuned to pass pollution tests. What was done was the thing was cut open guts removed and welded shut. What I'm getting at is makes me wonder how many other vehicles really need a Cat.

Comparing the pollution output of a Scooter to a SUV is not valid to me. With rare exception the SUV will be driven many more miles per annum than the Bike therefore emit more total emissions.

It's my understanding removing a Cat is illegal and if you do chose to remove it (I don't personally care what you do) you may run into not nice consequences. If you do remove it save it for when the State starts inspecting bikes.

As far as pollution in general l will bet your not old enough to know who Euell Gibbons was. I have been a conservationist and recycler for a long time. BUT I am also a realist. A true tree hugger worries if he uses a paper bag about the tree it came from. But if he uses a plastic bag he worries about the plastic use complications. You not gonna win. Now if you are as big a tree hugger and worry as much as you say why do you have an internal combustion powered vehicle at all? Ride a bicycle or do as the Amish do with a horse and buggy. The latter does leave another style of pollution. Now I AM NOT as you say trolling you. I think the amount additional contamination you will emit is insignificant you just do the best you can do. Are you adding to Global warming? When you look a the Worlds history over the last 50000 years Global warming is, in my opinion, a joke. Heating/Cooling off of the planet has been going on for long time. Antarctica has a fossilized forest under the ice. At one time the Sphinx was in a lush area. Change has gone on forever.


K
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,078 Posts
O am allergic to cats, so I always re.ove them. <rim shot> Aeriously though,.. My 2c on cats:

I used to be very involved in the tuning industry for Volvos. I know, I'm weird. Anyway, removing the cat on any of the modern cars had no real effect on emissions from our testing. Sure, if we ran 1000cc injectors, there was an increase. However, for a road-going car, the cat did not really improve emissions. On those cars. These were post-CIS injection systems, so not throttle body injection engines. You could control ignition and injector functions well with the more modern ECUs from the early 1990s on.

For motorcycles, I have only removed cats if the system I'm installing didn't have them. My ZRX1200R has a full Muzzy's system, and it doesn't run a cat. I can't imagine modern motorcycles either A) make up a material number of carbon-emitting sources and 2) would be unable to control emissions using their sophisticated ECU, coupled with O2 sensors. I haven't tested item 2, however.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
My primary source of income is based around cat removal on motorcycles .
My primary source of adrenaline and elation is riding motorcycles.
For me the two are linked, if the bike feels good and sounds good and has a sense of power which I am controlling the world is a wonderful place.
The poetry created by the symmetry of rider, corner, sound , fear, judgment and contained power, is fleeting and intoxicating.

When I start their bike, after I've playing cats and baffles, the comment most often given, (through a broad grin), is "thankyou, now it sounds like it looks"
I don't always remove the cat for me it's a case by case decision some guys believe its a cure-all in their pursuit of power,it's not.
I have searched my soul over this particular pollution question and have found my personal need to eat and my need for some joy and poetry of motion, overrides my guilt in this seemingly small contribution to the destruction of the planet. When in all other areas of my life I voluntarily do my bit, call it carbon offset .

Watching the new years eve fireworks on Sydney harbour, millions of dollars up in toxic smoke,which ironically obscured the view of said fireworks.Produced I believe more pollution in 30 minutes than all the bikes in sydney for the year ,possibly this is the case world wide. BAN FIREWORKS !!!

I applaud your courage in broaching this subject and hope you find some genuine answers this is my take .

ride well
Peter H @ meerkat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
Band cars, trucks, band motorcycles, go back to the horse and buggy, hangon poo creates gases, sh.t go back to the stone age, well thats a silly idea, untill other countries stop polluting the world with there toxsic gasses, third world countries product so much pollutants and I can tell you they will never stop doing so.
Put up more wind farms, solar farms etc etc but in a way that pollutes the view, create more nuclear reactors but then the where to put the waste and what happens when something goes wrong, its good having a say in this matter but getting everyone involved will never happen while there is oil production and money to be made, I will just keep riding my polutant bike and just enjoy what little time I have left in this world.

Ashley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
More food for thought
: the motorcycle cat is most likely designed with the expectation of a 250,000km life. As most motorcycles fail to achieve this milestone and many fall far short, mine included . The cats which are essentially the combination of stored resources and energy expended in there manufacture,sit idly in garages never to reach there potential .If the production, of this vast store of unproductive items was weighed against the pollutant output by not having them in the first place there is very possibly a net gain in favour of no cats on bikes (I know this does not address the fact of their current existence). I am also aware that I would go hungry.
just say'n
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Band cars, trucks, band motorcycles, go back to the horse and buggy, hangon poo creates gases, sh.t go back to the stone age, well thats a silly idea, untill other countries stop polluting the world with there toxsic gasses, third world countries product so much pollutants and I can tell you they will never stop doing so.
Put up more wind farms, solar farms etc etc but in a way that pollutes the view, create more nuclear reactors but then the where to put the waste and what happens when something goes wrong, its good having a say in this matter but getting everyone involved will never happen while there is oil production and money to be made, I will just keep riding my polutant bike and just enjoy what little time I have left in this world.

Ashley
Nice day for it Ash.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
Nice day for it Ash.....
Peter I knocked back a ride today, perfect winter riding weather but I got to pull my tray off the back of my Land Rover to replace the fuel pump next week, maintenances duties just get in the ways sometimes but I am lucky as I can get out on the bike anytime.
Our winter days are just so nice and the best thing is we aren't cooking our brains when riding in winter, clear blue skies and no sign of pollution in the air.

Ashley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
I will put a vote for the cat for a few reasons. One is the smell of the wretched gas we have now and the cat cleans it up. My ST is pre cat and has the stink smell. The other is the sound decibel. Loud pipes on a bike is tiring on long rides. Newer bikes don’t have are need packing in muffler and some don’t need it at all. The price of full systems is way too expensive. I’m for keeping the air clean but I also like to modify within the smog rules. I have to since I live in CA. My cars are always heavily modified but still pass the sniffer test. Keep it stock and enjoy or modify and enjoy.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
I live in Southern California, and it can get pretty smoggy here. For myself, I have considered de-cat, but decided against it. I just don't want to contribute to the already bad air, more than I am by riding a bike in the first place.

I do a lot of outdoor stuff: hiking, exercise, bike riding, etc. and it is quite startling when we climb up a mountain and get above the smog line. It's like a nasty fog enveloping the city. I hate to think I am breathing that all the time.

We are adding solar to our house, and going all electric with our car. Maybe someday, we'll get an electric motorcycle too. I have to admit that's going to be a tough pill to swallow though, because I love too many things about my bike. That's why I got a retro bike, because it is just basic motorcycle. I am fine with the cat, but it will be hard to give up the clutch or feel of the motor.

Anyway, I try not to wear my choices on my sleeve and judge other people. Everyone has their vices, and we can always be shown to be hypocrites.

Individual purchasing choices can help make things better, but really, we need systemic and far-reaching changes that can only take place at a higher level. I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. So, I'll just continue to ride my bike on the cool PCH, when much of the city is 110 degrees or hotter.

"I have no fear. London is drowning, and I live by the River"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,996 Posts
I my view, whether or not you run a "cat" on your bike or not is pretty insignificant compared to the blanketing of the environment with exhaust from a million or so jet aircraft in the sky all around the globe at any given moment. Big business and polticians love to put the burden on the little guy while they do nothing at all. ...J.D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
Comes down to whether you think it's hopeless and we're all screwed anyway, or whether you think this whole climate change thing is a crock, or whether you prefer to focus on the countless environmental travesties that are both out of our control and far more consequential than a cat delete on a motorcycle...or how much personal responsibility you want to take and whether you believe the way forward is going to require millions of individuals making seemingly trivial decisions, or whether you think that's for suckers who are just trying not to feel guilty.

We all have to outsource our knowledge, and it takes more effort than most people want to expend to get good scientific information. Much easier to go with your gut and stay in your filter bubble and confirm your biases.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
293 Posts
One question nobody asks the climate panic campaigners is if they personally wish to return to the stone age , with all its many opportunities for dying young .
I just want to say that this is a false choice. Electric cars and motorcycles are more technologically advanced than ICE engines.

So, one could actually say that people with the ICE engines are clinging to their Stone Age technology and refusing to move forward.

I think it's better to be nonjudgmental in this and do what you think is proper.

Leaving out violent criminals and the like, nobody is better than anybody else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,387 Posts
I just want to say that this is a false choice. Electric cars and motorcycles are more technologically advanced than ICE engines.

So, one could actually say that people with the ICE engines are clinging to their Stone Age technology and refusing to move forward.

I think it's better to be nonjudgmental in this and do what you think is proper.

Leaving out violent criminals and the like, nobody is better than anybody else.
Read it again , not saying anything for or against any technology . Just consider how all the wonderful clean and healthy stuff we are supposed to use instead of dirty unhealthy stuff is manufactured . Climate panic terrorists are blocking roads, flying drones over airports and apologising for preventing emergency services doing their jobs . :|
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top