[pineygroveshop]

I was out for a ride today and stopped for a photo-op. I suited back up and hit the starter and nothing. The dash clock was on until I turned the key to the start position and then the clock would go blank and no headlights.

I will post the fix after anyone who wants to offers up a guess at the problem.

 

[twinrider]

Sounds kind of like a sudden battery failure or at least failure to charge.

 

[ShereKhan]

Loose terminal at the battery or starter solenoid?

Graeme.

 

[Skidpan]

Sound like loose terminal or main fuse blew, perhaps.

 

[pineygroveshop]

Skidpan wins.

A couple of weeks ago, after not riding for a month, I needed a jump start. Everything has been cool since then.
What I found yesterday was that the main fuse was mishapen like it cooked. It metered good; however, there was some corrosion on the lugs.
I had spares with me and was able to pop one in and just like that Vrooooommm!

I'd never needed a jump before, I used a car. Also shortly after that I hooked the bike up to a car battery charger. Do y'all think that either of those episodes caused the fuse to cook?

 

[greenman]

Last time this happened to me I found some idiot had turned off the engine kill switch. Still, the walk home did me good.

 

[simonsez]

from what i know of bikes - jumping from a car can fry your starter solenoid and possibly your whole electrical system - since it's not the VOLTS that matter, but the amperage.

but - maybe things have changed severly since my 1980 kz650...which is very, very very very likely....

SO - consider yourself lucky if you charge or jump from a car and can ride away.

also considering why they make motorcycle specific chargers and jumpers...otherwise, who would bother?

taken from the website articlebase.com
If the battery won't start or seems dull, you may only need to recharge it. Always check the voltage of your motorcycle battery before recharging and never charge your battery at an amperage more than 1/6 the rated capacity of your battery. For example, it you have a 7 amp-hour battery, you should not charge it at an amperage of more than 1 amps. If you have an 18 amp-hour battery, you can charge it at a maximum of 3 amps. Therefore, most battery tenders offer charging amperage of from 1/2 amp up to 2 amps. NOTE: NEVER USE AN AUTOMOBILE BATTERY CHARGER ON YOUR POWERSPORT SEALED BATTERY. Although recharging seems like a simple process, as a general rule of thumb always wear protective eye wear and refrain from smoking as you are working with explosive gasses.

and I know this is blasphemy...but a nice website for you to consider reading about amperage and...beamers. there i said it. Please don't kick me

http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/electrical.htm

and once again - just so you know - that when you do a jump from a car running - that battery from that car rates anywhere from 35-50 amphour, and when that runs through an alternator, the amperage signal is nearly quadrupled ranging from 140-250.

A motorcycle battery ranges from 10-15 amperage, in which a motorcycle alternator can push it to a max around 30-40 amperage....

You try putting nearly 6 times the amperage power through your system...and you will start smelling burnt copper and tie sleeves everywhere....so yes. you are lucky.


DO NOT JUMP YOUR BIKE FROM A CAR!

DON'T EVEN CHARGE IT WITH A CAR BATTERY!

And for heavens sake, don't boil the battery out of use by using a car charger.

There. i'm done now. Three edits in the making. Huh, looks like things haven't changed that much since my rusty crazy650.


[ This message was edited by: simonsez on 2006-11-20 21:27 ]

 

[iansoady]

On 2006-11-20 14:31, greenman wrote:
Last time this happened to me I found some idiot had turned off the engine kill switch. Still, the walk home did me good.

That happened to me when I foolishly let my brother have a short blast (which turned into me waiting for over an hour for him to come back). I wouldn't call him an idiot though - merely thoughtless.

Fortunately I was at home at the time so had only got as far as checking all the fuses before the penny dropping.

 

[JRO]

On 2006-11-20 21:07, simonsez wrote:
DO NOT JUMP YOUR BIKE FROM A CAR!

DON'T EVEN CHARGE IT WITH A CAR BATTERY!

I know it's bad, but I had to mention this...
I jumped my '74 Honda 750/4, alla time. From a car. Charged it with a car charger too, usually on the fastest setting, often overnight. Did it for years; nary a glitch, either. Bike had 130,000+ on it, when sold. I think I changed the fork oil once, during the years I owned it. Aside from that, only plugs and oil changes.

Did the same with a 550/4.

Now, I have no illusions that my Tiger is going to be that tough. I just wish it was, is all.

 

[KuzzinKenny]

but the 74 honda wizny full of computers !! :razz:

KK

 

[TorqueyT]

On 2006-11-20 21:07, simonsez wrote:
DO NOT JUMP YOUR BIKE FROM A CAR!

DON'T EVEN CHARGE IT WITH A CAR BATTERY!

Can anybody clarify this a bit further: can I jumpstart the bike from a *non-running* car, i.e. just from the battery, or does this not make any difference?

 

[KuzzinKenny]

Hey TT !! the Tiger battery is a 12V 14AH, a car battery is 12V 40 + AH and thats about all i know !! :???:

not much help, eh !! :-D

KK

[ This message was edited by: KuzzinKenny on 2007-04-04 18:13 ]

 

[pomallon]

The amp hour rating means that it can discharge at 40 amps for 1 hour or at 4 amps for 10 hours or any combination of that sort.

You'll find that increased resistance is the cause of the fuse blowing. If it was all corroded around the connections this would cause resistance to increase dramatically therefore current draw has to increase as well to overcome the resistance. Higher current than fuse rating equals blown fuse.

The corrosion could be caused by many things, the sweat off your hands or a combination of high humidity and high (engine) temperature. I'd also suggest checking the fuse mounts to see if they are firm. Loose joints increase resistance. Check other connections on that circuit for looseness or corrosion.

 

[simonsez]

if you have a motorcycle battery, look at what the crank amperage rating says.

look at your car battery, what is the crank amperage?

That is what is flowing out of that battery at a non phased state (it supplies that amount without additional help)

Yes - 12v is 12v - but the fact remains - the car battery will have nearly 1.5 times more amperage output than a motorcycle battery does running through the motorcycle battery running through it's alternator if equipped. Which, might not be that much, but when fuses are only rated (not to mention rectifiers and stators) for a maximum load, it can hurt your bike, possibly a lot. Depending on how much load your bike is rated for... especially with something as touchy as an ECU.

It's simple really, when you put your finger in the socket in your wall do you think there's some magic button in you to say "no thanks, I only want .000007 amps to run through me. " Nope, it's going to float out 120volt at a pretty painful amperage setting. You can try it like I did when I was about 5 if you don't believe me - but be careful - it can KILL YOU! As I remember, the human heart only need 7 MILLIAMPS to stop beating at a 120 voltage setting.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070313192542AAq837f - read here.

The same thing for bikes - once you connect your bike to that battery all amperage settings are running through it . That's why I say DON'T JUMP YOUR BIKE FROM A CAR BATTERY, especially when the car is running. That is most certain death for a lot of things (as previously noted in my post).

Will you utlimately stop the universe and blow up your bike if you connect a car battery (away from the car and the car NOT RUNNING) to your bike and start it - more than likely not. But it's not good for it. If you HAVE to do this - make sure the car is off, or the battery out. Thats all. Go ahead, talk to everyone you want to, ask all the questions to all those people who say "i've done it a million times - no problems that I can tell." But numbers, especially with the physics side of things involved don't lie. I won't do it, even if it doesn't supposedly hurt the bike. Afterall, a lot of people said "cigarrettes never hurt nothing"...just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt your electrical system.

 

[iansoady]

Sorry Simon, but Ohm's law rules. In other words current = volts / resistance. The current going through you from the wall socket is a function of the voltage in the mains (230 here) and the resistance to earth. That's it (although of course with AC it's not quite as simple). So jumping from a car or any other 12V vehicle is not a problem.

If you short out the bike or car battery with say 0.01 ohms you'll get 1200 amps from each (yes I know it's not exactly 12 volts) until they fry.

The main thing you need to be careful of is the two vehicles touching anywhere except the jumper leads.

 

[simonsez]

This is where amperage comes in. The toaster, or any other electrical product, needs a certain amount of electrical energy to perform its job. It draws that amount of electricity from the 'river' of volts in the line. A small electrical appliance like a toaster usually needs less power than a larger appliance such as a refrigerator or power saw. In electrical terms, these appliances work at different amperage rates. A large electric motor may draw 100 amps, while a small heating element may draw only 10 amps. Both tap into the same 110 voltage line, but their amperage needs are noticeably different.

Amperage must be controlled in order to protect the electrical lines from overheating or short-circuiting. This is why electricians use fuses and breakers. A 30 amp fuse, for example, will allow smaller appliances to run on the line it protects, but if an electric clothes dryer pulls 60 amps, a metal filament in the fuse will melt and break the circuit immediately. Breaker switches also control amperage through circuit breaking. Larger electrical devices often have their own circuits with higher capacity fuses or breaker switches to avoid such overloads.

go ahead, i'm still not doing it. I've read plenty enough, but hey, it's your bike.

 

[JRO]

Now, I weren't reckermending folks jump their modern-type motorbikels from a '65 Dodge Polara. As somboddy done pointed out, thar jus' ain't no 'puters inna '74 Honda 750. Wirin' was pretty heavy-duty, too. I jus' sed I dun it alot.

No, I doan reckon I'd be partial to jumpin' an '06 Tiger, the same way.