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Discussion Starter #1
I am putting a 02 Daytona motor in a 99 Sprint RS body. Everything fit and hooks up fine except the alternator, where is the alternator, I know the 99 RS has an external alternator and I dont know where the hook ups are for the alternator on the Daytona. Also, does the Daytona have a regulator and if it does what does it do?
 

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hi cklassen, the alternator is 'inboard' on the LH side of the crankshaft (and about time!). Pickup located there too. Starter sprag on the RH side.
Sounds like a good project cklassen, post a pic if you can
Cheers
Kerry

edited as forgot the regulator/rectifier. on the '02 Daytona was located on the frame at the rear RH side. An after market should work fine. The 'old' alternator contained the rec/reg unit internally. Do you have a wiring diagram, you will possibly need it to navigate the charging system due to the component changes.

[ This message was edited by: 93-Daytona on 2006-11-23 04:18 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh my bad..duh..its a 00 Sprint. Thanks, for the info. I think that the alternator is the only thing I am going to have trouble with when it comes to "rigging" stuff up. Oh, and the exhaust system, but other than that it has been smooth sailing. On the wires coming out of the crankshaft, (which i know are from the alternator) they are all grey, (there are 3 of them) would that mean that they all do the same thing, like positive charge? Because if that is the case I can very easily hook them up.

On a completely new topic, I know in 02 or so they went to a open loop fuel injection system, (I believe it is where there is a sensor in the exhaust) and it changes your fuel air mixture when you drive, since the RS is a closed loop system, could I just leave that sensor unhooked, or how would that work?

What is a regulator? The only reason I ask is that I saw one on ebay for a Daytona, and the RS doesnt have one. I just dont know if i need it or not.

Also, the CDI box on the RS is the same as the 02 Daytona, but it has been programmed for a RS-955i motor, is it possible to run the daytona motor with that configuration just long enough to get the bike to a dealership so it can be remapped?

Thanks,
John


[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-11-23 13:08 ]
 

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You definitely have to have a voltage regulator somewhere in the system. It keeps from overcharging the battery when the revs come up. On the RS it is inside the alternator.

I have shop manual for my '01. I'm not sure how to scan and send the wiring diagram to you.

[ This message was edited by: jefftarlton on 2006-11-23 16:47 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the info, on the scanner stuff I have no idea, I guess you would have to send it to my email. But I dont know.

[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-11-23 19:16 ]
 

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Hi again cklassan
To answer your 1st question: the 3 wires from the alternator you say are grey will connect to the voltage regulator/rectifier you saw on Ebay and need to bid for! :hammer:
As I said in my earlier post. the regulator/retifier unit is contained within the alternator on the RS engine. The '02 Daytona has a unit mounted seperate to the alternator, and mounted to the rear of the frame on the RH side. You will need to mount the same unit to hook to your '02 alternator. The reg/rec unit benefits greatly in terms of reliability if mounted in an area of air flow.
As for wiring: the 3 grey wires(usually yellow) go to the 3 black wires on the reg/rec unit. The 3 black/white wires from the reg/rec unit go to a good earth. The 2 black/red wires be connected together. then run as a single wire to the main fuse. Connect it to the 'power out' side so that its fused to the battery.
Your next question:what is a regulator. It is basically a solid state current coverter and voltage control unit rolled into one. the job of the reg/rec unit is to convert AC voltage (alternating current) to DC voltage (direct current) for the battery. When a pre determined voltage is reached excess charge is unloaded to earth being again converted to heat. The body of the unit is in most cases heavily finned to assist cooling.
Your exhaust question: the O2 (Lambda) sensor you refer to allows the '02 to run a very lean ixture at idle and light load throttle opening. Both you RS & the '02 Daytona run a Sagem MC1000 ECM. You wont have to concern youself with it. "Closed loop" mode activates at an air/fuel ratio of 14.5-14.7 :1
Recoding and tuning: The '02 Daytona code for your new engine with std exhaust is 10178. If you have an aftermarket exhaust 10181 will do well.
However, both these codes contain the lean fuel condition at low load and idle. The idle may even be a bit rough. Two solutions: 1, load the tune and adjust the idle trim to a value of around 13.5-14 :1 via the dealer.
2, find a local TuneBoy 'Doctor' & dyno for massive results.
Be prepared, the RS wont wear many front tyres when you're done!! and you'll suffer from big grin syndrome
:cool:
Finally, the exact date of manufacture is stamped on a small raised cast block near the sterring head.
The exhaust cam shaft out-rigger bearing has the engine manufacture date engraved on it.
Cheers and good luck, keep us informed
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Wow. that helps out tremedously. I think I should be able to get everything running correctly once I recieve all of my parts, but on a regulator, should I get a factory one or a other brand? And you said hook the wires up to my fuse box, should I do that or just hook them up to my old alternator wires, and then let them go through the fuse box or? And on that sensor in the exhaust I just leave it unhooked, correct? I think that pretty much sums everything up for me, but there is always the possibility of something messing up.
Thanks,
John

[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-11-24 19:59 ]
 

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Hi John,happy to help with your progress.
The Regulator you require would be best purchased S/H from ebay or a good breaker. Will cost about as much as a SHINDENGEN 35amp unit new.
The unit is a good match though, as the RS is not equipped with a 'charge' light on the dash.
Must apologise John, I mis-read your earlier post, you do indeed have the Lambda sensor in your exhaust.
This is already connected to terminals 2/F1-1/A3-1/A2 of your ECU. With the 10181 tune code down loaded your engine will automatically run in closed loop mode.
Good point about your alternator wires John.
Referring to both the Haynes manual #3755 covering your RS loom, and the factory manual #3850595 issue 3 that covers the '02 Daytona loom:
One black wire from the RS/alt goes to a Blue/Yellow wired fuse that is on the headlight cut off circuit.
This cuts the headlights during start up to allow full voltage being available to the starter and ECU.
The other RS/alt wire goes to the ignition switch/main fuse circuit.
The '02 Daytona is wired differently to achieve the same function.
Simply, you can do the following:
All three wires from the '02/alt go directly to the new Reg/Rec unit.
The two original RS/alt wires can be connected to the two output wires from the the new Reg/Rec unit.
The two earth wires on the unit to common earth.
Looking through the diagrams I see that the wires can differ in colour, best you get the unit you'll be using 1st so I don't confuse you with too many wire colours.
How about the air box John?
Mounting to the cam cover differs, but the stepper and inlets should line up ok. You may be able to chnge the mounting brackets over, really not sure on that at all.
Are you using the '02 stick coils? The RS ones won't fit.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well I am going to have to get some new coils, probably just buy some off a wrecked bike; its just a matter of finding them. I will decide which air box I will use once the throttle bodies come in, the only reason I dont want to buy a new box is because of the position of the sensor on the 02 air box, the connector from the RS harness isnt long enough, although I could just split them and add some more wire, I figure I can just wait and see how everything fits. You are right, the mounting does differ, but I am just going to decide what I will do once some other stuff comes in and I get it all figured out. Do you know if the exhaust headers for all of the 02 models are the same? It is just because I found some headers off of a 02 Sprint and am wondering if they should fit on my motor, and if I can hook up a 02 Daytona aftermarket can. Speaking of exhaust cans, what would be the best "bang for the buck" exhaust system, preferably a LOUD one. But anyways, almost all all of the wiring is hooked up except the alternator stuff, I just have to ground out a couple of things, but other than that it should work good. On my wiring harness I have 2 connectors that wernt connected to anything, they were wound up and were just there not doing anything, do you know what they are? Oh and I have to get a new oil cooler and connecting lines (the motor didnt come with any, but other than that and the exhaust it should be smooth sailing. One other thing is that I dont know if the connectors that hooked up to the coils on the RS will hook up correctly to the coils on the Daytona, I just dont know if they will match up, or if I will have to do some custom stuff.
Thanks,
John

[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-11-26 15:19 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have been looking on ebay for coils, headers, and a regulator, and was wondering; from what other models are compatable with a 02 Daytona. for example, would the coils off of a 02 Sprint or S3 fit, or would they have to be off of a 02 Daytona. I have called a couple of dealers and they dont seem to know. They said I would have to give them the vin numbers but since I have a 00 RS frame I dont know how I would do it. All help is appreciated.
Thanks,
John
 

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Hi John,sorry for late reply.long hours at the moment, just that time of year!
The air temperature sensor is very sensitve to current. be sure the wire you use is the same size and connections are good.You may still get a slight variation in resistance simply due to the increase in wire length, hopefully will have little/no effect.
Pretty sure you will need '02 onwards headers, Sprint will fit the head, though I think there is a slight difference in outlet bend to the muffler. Harris mufflers made here in NZ are excellent. Good to tune in on a TuneBoy and wicked sound. Triumph track muffler has a groin raising growl too!
The two 'spare' connectors you refer to are on the injection loom,yes? They are just that,spare.
Connectors on the coils are different from RS to '02.
Bit of moderate creativity needed there, but above all make sure the connections are CORRECT and firm.
'03 coils would fit, as will any model '02. Possibly even 1050 coils, though not sure on that, but if a wrecked one showed up I would certainly chase it up for a look.
Regulator/Rectifier of any '02-'03 will be fine.
Fingers crossed for successful start-up!
Cheers John
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just purchased some headers off of a wrecked 02 Sprint ST for $50 and some coils off of a 03 Sprint ST Now all I need is the oil cooler, regulator, and air box. You said that I need to be very careful when hooking the air temperature sensorup, can I just take 1 of those 2 extra connecters I was talking about and use it, since the connecter is the same and it has alot of extra wire or will I need that in the future? Also, when my headers come in; you said I need to hook up the wire coming from the exhaust, or can I just leave that unhooked? It would be alot easier to leave it unhooked. And on the headers, is the Sprint that much different than the Daytona, or will I have to now get a Sprint exhaust pipe?
Thanks,
John

[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-11-29 16:12 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Holy cow, the ST and the Daytona headers are different in 02. Does that mean that where they connect to the exhaust ports on the motor are different two? I was looking at the end of them and it appears that my muffler off of my 00 RS will fit, if it does will that hurt the daytona motor since the RS muffler is most likely more restrictive?
Thanks,
John
 

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Good score on the $50 headers John! As I said in the earlier post, the bend at the muffler is probably different, though where they bolt to the head should be the same. Not unusual for the pipes to have a degree of 'spring' in them. They have a bar welded across to help prevent this, but stresses build during heating and cooling which can make them hard to remove and re-fit.
Either way,there's not much room for error. be very sure the header spiggots are located correctly into the manifold while tightening. Sequence is top row of nuts to 19Nm then the bottom row to 19Nm then back to the top row, again at 19Nm. Use new gaskets, gasket joint facing outward.
The two spare plugs you have on the injector loom:
one is the plug for the 4th injector(red) as found on TT600's. They use the same basic loom. This may still be active from the ECU. Insulate the wires well and keep them apart. The plug will fit the air temperature sensor, and the wire sizing will match.
The other plug is an accessory plug (black). From memory this is the same shape and could be used, and has more 'spare' wire. Though check the thickness of the wire core, may be heavier.
Think we're still getting our 'wires crossed' regarding the Lamda sensor john. Does your RS header set have a sensor located in the 3 - 1 joint?
Need to know this to recommend a tune code to download.
Is your RS muffler Standard, Triumph Track, or other after market can?
Finally, do you now of anyone in your area who has and is good on a Tuneboy?
The error code and testing facility would be ideal before you start up. Also checks voltage of all the sensors, AND you can customize a map to suit the airbox, muffler and engine.
Let me know when you get a regulator/rectifier John.
Cheers Kerry
 

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hey John, just thought about this, I don't think the '02 airbox is going to fit under the RS tank. They're a totally different shape. The '02 is taller.
An '02 Daytona will be here tomorrow afternoon for service and re-map, I will take some measurements. An '01 RS will be here on the 13th Dec for top end work, will take some measurements on that too if you're no closer by then. I will also check headers and plug wiring on both.
If you send me your email, PM it if you like, I will send some detailed photos. I have nearly 8,000 detailed images of Triumph components collected during servicing.
You too could return photos if you have a digital camera to show what you're having trouble with.
I could also organize a time, suitable to us both, and set up the web cam to talk you through 'plug in' with an RS in the workshop.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No, my stock RS header doesnt have a sensor going into it. It is a standard can, and I have found out, is that this 02 Sprint ST header should fit on my motor, and my stock can will fit on the header two, it is turning out better than I thought. No, I dont know anyone who has a good tuneboy. Also, on my connectors to my coils, I dont think that they are the same, what do you think would be the best way for me to rig it up? Thanks, for all the info your giving me it makes everything ALOT easier.
Thanks,
John
 

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Without the Lambda sensor and with the standard RS muffler your current tune code 010071 should be fine to start with. It is built from base tune 010152 which is found throughout the RS/ST model range and the '02 Daytona among others.
Tune code 10156 or 10129 would have been better,again from base tune 010152, but both these codes run a very lean A/F ratio below 40% throttle load (14.45:1), meaning it runs in'closed loop' mode. This would cause a rough idle without the Lambda sensor being fitted.
The 010071 tune has a A/F ratio of 13.00:1 at light loading up to 1500rpm, and therefore is not idling in 'closed loop' mode simply because its not triggered by a lean A/F target.
In theory the 10156 could be run with adjustment to the idle trim set to 12.45 - 13.00. This may prevent the 'closed loop' mode. 10129 would need the same adjustment. Both these maps would have the engine developing more power over the 010071 code.
You local dealer may be able to offer some advice also in regard to selecting a tune and adjusting to prevent rough idle. I would be very tempted to trailer the bike to a dealer and plug into their gameboy to check that everything is functioning before attempting the 1st start up.
Final stage would be to get hooked up to a TuneBoy and a DynaJet 250 dyno to get full power from your Triumph.
At the least, getting it on a Dyno even just to check how the tune performs will cost***** all and give you some confidence if all is well, or it will show you what may need adjusting.
Your dealer can't remove flat spots in the fuel map,so limited in what they can do. The TuneBoy has full map adjustment that can be customised to suit your engine charactaristics.
Yes the coil plugs are different. Wondering if you may find something at a car wrecker?
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have been a little worried about the Daytona airbox fitting under the RS tank, that is why I am waiting to see how everything fits once my throttle bodies come in. I dont think that it is possible but I am going to see how my RS airbox is going to fit over the throttle bodies. I wont really know how I am going to do everything, all I can do is wait and see, step by step. On the RS tune; I just remembered that I remapped my bike with the RS-aftermarket can tune; I dont know how it slipped my mind, but I thought I should let you know, considering that it might change stuff. Once I get everything hooked up I will haul the bike over to the Triumph dealership to get a new tune and start it up there first. I have been looking for dyno's and I have found out a place to get it tuned, or at least I think they can do Triumphs. I havent contacted them yet. I have finally gotten a regulator off of a 02 Daytona, $50 again. I will figure out some way to wire up the coils, I am thinking about buying a Daytona harness just so I can use some of the connectors off of it. But I dont know anything yet, right now I am just waiting for my parts to come in. Do you think that a oil cooler for $200 is a good price? I have found one but it is the ONLY one I have found and cant seem to compare it with anything els. Pictures of inside the daytona motor would be great, (if possible). It is hard to find that kinda stuff on the internet.
My email is [email protected]
Thanks,
John

[ This message was edited by: ckassen on 2006-12-02 17:22 ]
 
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