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Discussion Starter #121
Massive Midrange 2 - a Different Bike

Well,

still searching for the solution of fuel gauge and Daytona performance, but in the mean time I managed to download the Massive 2 tune.....

My what a difference. The pick up from any revs is so much improved, it is like it is a different engine. Mind you, you loose that heady surge around 6500rpm where the correct mix used to kick in. Now it is strong kick everywhere!!

The only down side is that it doesn't like constant throttle at low revs in the bottom two gears.... ie 20 and 30mph round town. I think this is down to the fact that the Massive tune is non-SAI and I have an SAI fitted currently..... yes DEcosse, I think I will remove it! You were right again!!!


Rexx
 

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Discussion Starter #123 (Edited)
Emails

Hi DEcosse,

I wondered why I hadn't heard from you. I replied on 25/2 after you sent the second iteration of the map and a smoothed version. I haven't had a mail from you since. I've snipped parts of my mail in below

No joy on either of the revised tunes. They wouldn't download. I got the timeout error every time. As soon as I loaded the standard Daytona tune it went in fine, as did Massive2. The bike fired with massive2 installed, and ran. On reflection, it wasn't as positive a start-up, but it settled down fine. there was much clonking from within the airbox when you put the ignition on, which I put down to the SAI.

I don't know why the ones you did didn't load, but I think the next step is to run it with massive2 loaded, and meanwhile (unless this is what you actually did) put all the values in the massive2 tune, into the one Wayne did. I'm not sure if that is what you did with the latter two tunes. I don't think so as your fuelling map goes to 9500rpm, while the one Wayne did went to 10,801.

I think that this combined with your email suggests that you started again with the base ST tune and revised it to Massive2 values, while Wayne managed something different. Whatever Wayne did, it does download, but doesn't run, which is why I think it may be a good base for the next step.

I think I will try Wayne's map with the modified min ign table you spotted, but I couldn't find the injector timing to change. Where is that hidden?

One thing I did struggle with was that Tuneboy Diagnostics didn't work. I think I am supposed to be able to see revs, temps etc with it, but it remains blank, however with the engine running TuneEdit was showing revs, injector duration etc. So something else to think about in the future!

What do you think?

Rexx
 

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The "wonders" of e-mail - I didn't getyour responses, too wierd
The last part you referred to above - I had already made the changes to Wayne's original conversion to those I identified for the ign & injector, so that map I sent should be good to go (I believe that was the second iteration I sent). That is assuming those two changes I outlined are what was inhibiting the starting when you tried the original at the dyno.
Compare that map I sent with Waynes original & you will see the difference in the Tune constants (under 'edit') and the 'ignition min' table.

The last two maps, which apprently wouldn't load, were the Massive values trancribed into the base Sprint map - the one issue I was concerned about was that, although I had increased the rpm limit, it wasn't possible to change the rpm increments in the table. Not sure why it wouldn't at least load however - maybe because it doesnt like the fact that max rpm & the fuel map don't match. I really wans't sure how that would come out but thought worth trying at least.
Best bet is to try to get Waynes merged map working - hopefully with the changes I made it should align to the Massive values across the board now. You would still need to nix the SAE
 

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Discussion Starter #125
Massive 2 - More riding

Thanks for that DEcosse,

I managed to get some more miles on the bike in good weather today. The M2 tune is great in the pick up from low revs, and there is still the rush from around 7000rpm up, but the constant throttle behaviour, particularly at 20, 30 and 40 is awful. It feels like I am missing a cylinder and the bike stutters. It makes taking a corner at constant throttle a rear challenge.

Also it would appear to be pretty thirsty. I will go back to the modified Wayne tune you sent which I think you called 10170_massive_Daytona_i_DEcosse.dat

I'm also smelling hot oil/rubber/plastic.... not sure which, but I am going to have to track it down. I don't think it is the belly pan.

I've done some comparing of pairs of maps SAI vs non-SAI across the Tuneboy std offerings, and I can't see any fuelling difference between the two. So if your mod Wayne file works I may get away with not ripping out plumbing..... I really don't like the messing around with the fuel connectors!! I know, it would be much better if I just got shot of the SAI and gubbins.

Thanks again for all your help/advice. No idea what is happening to mails.

Rexx
 

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I think Waynes original composite was still based on non-SAI, so think you still need to nixx the SAI parts>

I meant to respond on the TuneBoy Diag question - I think maybe you should try connecting the cable, launching the Diag program before you turn on ign or run the motor - see if that makes a difference. TuneEdit is not meant to be a 'real-time' program for when bike is running, whereas Diag is.
 

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Discussion Starter #127
one Step Forward - One Back

Okay,

so I loaded your modification of Wayne's hybrid tune and the bike fired up, it struggled to idle, but seemed to rev freely

During warm up idle it struggles to hold 1000rpm, and then suddenly it will pick up to 1200 and then drop back. Rev it and it picks up okay, but when it drops back to idle it stalls. Subsequent attempts to start it fail. It now won't even catch. Reload the standard Daytona tune and it fires first time.

I have a hunch that it is something to do with the fast idle setting and I need to reset fast idle using TuneBoy and let it re-calibrate (not too clear on this, so I'm being vague). I have mailed Wayne with my TuneBoy problem, as no matter what order I do the cable/software/ignition there is no communication, the LED never flashes.

So I am now back on the Standard 10179 tune for the time being. I think I will mod the fuel map of that one to get the pick up back while I think what we can do next

Rexx
 

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Hi guys,

I've just read through this post with great interest.
I have an 03 Sprint ST and I'm considering this swap.
Rexxy, did you get any farther with finding the correct tune to make everything work along with the fuel gauge?
Also are you still glad you did this now that the initial excitement has presumably diminished?
I would be very interested to have a look some time if at all possible. I live in Yate (9 miles north of Bristol) so perhaps if you are out for a ride locally some time I could meet you and have a look?
Sorry if this sounds presumptuous.

Tim
 

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2002 Sprint ST to Daytona

I'm looking at trading out my 2002 Sprint ST to a 2002 Daytona engine. The Sprint's crankshaft sheared and I found this same year Daytona engine on Ebay with 1/2 the milage but it's located across the country so shipping will factor. Still, a new shaft alone is 1,400 so getting a total engine for 1/2 that seems the way to go. I just bought this bike two weeks ago so this was not really in my plans but it seems to be now.
It's been many years since taking something like this on and wondered about your opinion whether or not it is worth what I assume will be a lot of work. This is not going to be like the old '60's Triumphs I've taken apart before. Any tips would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks!
 

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Thanks rexx:
Sorry about the delay in response, I really appreciate your offer. I'm an electrical contractor and have been caught up in doing 4 projects, so not a lot of time for the fun stuff until I complete them. Paul
 

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Hello gys. I was given an 08 speed triple from a scrap yare with a blown engine that was used for parts. I would like to go on a cheap route to get a new engine and electrics on the bike as the ecu, harnesses, lights have all be scrapped. The speedo for the 1050 triple is too expensive and the ecu is fair on price. I don't think I can shell out 0ver $300 for it as I am not that bouyant. The 955 clocks can be had for $150 or less. I understand most here are quite versed on conversion matters from post on the forum. I am guessing the 2000-2004 Daytona 955 engine will drop into the 08 speed triple frame when posts I read. I would like to know if i, can I use the 1050 airbox, manifold, radiator, oil cooler of the 08 speed triple? I also would like to know if the 955 has an imonilizer cause a friend of man installer a universal speedo on his Honda black bird. So would that work or I need to stick with the 955 clocks? I am looking at this mode mostly for horse power gains. Or do I get the 1050 engine and use the ecu and wiring harness and clocks of the daytona. Could this actually work? I would be glad for some solid feedback. Thanks very much.a picture of the bike View attachment 747565 View attachment 747566
 
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