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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All.
I don't normally post in forums at all, I usually search and get enough info but am getting desperate. I used to use daytona600.org but that closed a long time ago...

Anyway as per the title, having issues with the the charging system. Recently picked up a Daytona 650 to replace mine which was written off by a bus (it was parked up without me on it thankfully). It worked fine for a month and then it stopped charging properly. I notice the R/R has been replaced with the electrex one recently-ish (sticker on the side is dated July 2016). But whoever fit it should stay far away from electronics, the crimps were poorly done and the connector had gotten hot and melted. Tidied up the connections but still not behaving, getting weird jumps in the output voltage between 6 to 10 V, and its not constant. I also notice that the stator (can feel it through the casing when bike is cold), stator wires and the R/R get very warm.

Did all the multimeter checks on the R/R and it passes. Stator checks seem fine, no shorts, outputs equal voltage across all three outputs at expected levels. I figure maybe the R/R is fried. So I get a used FH001 from an 03 yamaha R1 and the link lead. Same issues but voltage doesn't go above about 2 V. So I replace the stator with a spare I have which I know was working when I removed it ages ago. same issues. Now I also try it with a spare stock triumph R/R. same issues. Inspecting the coils some of them look a bit darker than the others, and I've noticed some posts saying that although the stator outputs normal voltage across the pins, it's likely on its way out if the coils have started going black.

I receive and fit a new stator, albeit a cheaper one from china (£56 delivered). I try it with the yamaha R/R first. Now I'm pretty sure I remember this right (happened quite quickly), I measured ~12 V at the R/R output, started thinking finally it's working, but then thought hang on it should be higher, like 14 V. Then within a couple seconds it starts dropping, 11, 10 V back down to <2 V?? Wires and stator start getting warm again. WHAT IS GOING ON.

Is it possible that a fried stator can damage an R/R? And then if you use said R/R with a new stator it will damage that too? I attach pictures of 2 of the stators, the original one that came with the bike and my old spare. (Upload has jumbled the order of the images, The one on the envelope is the original, the one on the plain sheet is the spare). (Edit: hovering over or opening the images seems to reveal the filenames).

Are there any more in-depth ways of testing a stator or R/R? I work at a university so have access to plenty of equipment. Only idea I have is to test an R/R with an ESC for drones but I'm not sure if the frequency is appropriate. I now have 3 stators and 3 R/R's surely they can't all be faulty?

Please help!
 

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... , I measured ~12 V at the R/R output, started thinking finally it's working, but then thought hang on it should be higher, like 14 V. Then within a couple seconds it starts dropping, 11, 10 V back down to <2 V??
I don't see how bike would possibly be running with the voltage at 2V - this IS connected to the battery, right?
It would be pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to get 2V and have it be still running so it sounds like you maybe are not connected to battery?
It MUST be connected to battery to work! i.e. you cannot leave it unplugged and measure output voltage at the R/R output connector. and everything WILL get hot because it is in full shunt mode.

For stator - replacement looks fine.
Original - hard to tell (that one coil at 3 o'clock is definitely pretty black but could be just the epoxy that's burned) - the acid test is just to measure resistance from any one of the three connector terminals to the core - that must NOT be short; if it is short, confirms it is toast. If NOT short, then stator is still viable.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ah I didn't realise that the battery has to be connected during testing! The original issues happened with the battery connected so I thought it didn't make a difference. Will connect battery up and try again.
 

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Bike is now working properly again. The electrex R/R was actually toast, no change to battery voltage when running, but alternator wires getting very hot and AC voltage dropping to nearly 0. After installing the yamaha FH001 R/R properly (and connecting to battery!) all is good again. Feeling a bit stupid for not connecting properly the first time and ordering another stator...

Does the R/R add 2V to the line voltage then?

Thanks for the help Decosse!
 

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No, the R/R does not add voltage. It regulates voltage. The alternator has to be healthy to put out the 14+ volts that the bike really should have in order to keep everything functioning and keep the battery charged.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I get that it rectifies AC to DC, and then regulates, but I always thought it regulated to ~14 V, thus charging a 12 V battery. Why doesn't it work without a battery? Just a curiosity. When I was measuring 2 V at the r/r output, I started to think maybe it just adds 2 V to the battery voltage. But now I think about it that would mean it would keep increasing by 2 V and would go to 14 and beyond, which it clearly does not do. Looking at wikipedia about rectifiers... a bit too much math for my liking.
 

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I'm sitting here thinking "how did you even get to test the output without the battery?".

A car (or my truck for example) will stay running when you take the battery out of the system IF the alternator is working.... and die instantly if alternator is bad.

But every bike I've messed with, if you pull the battery it will kill the bike. Not sure why, but I know that's what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm sitting here thinking "how did you even get to test the output without the battery?".

A car (or my truck for example) will stay running when you take the battery out of the system IF the alternator is working.... and die instantly if alternator is bad.

But every bike I've messed with, if you pull the battery it will kill the bike. Not sure why, but I know that's what happens.
Ah well I had a fully charged battery installed and would start the bike off of that. As the previous owner had installed the electrex R/R it's wired straight to the battery rather than into the loom, so when I was getting weird readings at the battery I turned it off, disconnected the R/R, started again and tested at R/R DC output. Still having weird readings. Then when I got the new R/R which does connect to the wiring loom; a) I didn't realise it needs connecting to battery to work properly, and b) I was too lazy to lift the tank and connect it to the loom and just measured at the DC output. Silly me!
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
After being fine for the past 4 months, I'm having similar issues again... As seen in the photo, my stator output plug has melted (again!). When this happened last time I put it down to poor crimping on the terminals from the previous owner who replaced the stock R/R with the electrex one. The electrex r/r was then malfunctioning so I switched it out with a yamaha FH001 and simply plugged back into the bike's loom (where previously the electrex was wired direct to battery). I also replaced the stator but not the battery. Yesterday I got home after a ride where I noticed my headlamps flickering and a bad smell. As I pulled in the tacho started to die, so I went to check my battery and saw that :/ Apart from the dimming lights, the bike was fine for the whole journey.

I chopped the bad end off,put a new plug on, connected back up, and battery voltage is fine at ~14 V, but I notice the stator wires getting warm, and heating significantly when revving higher. I then put in a new battery, same situation. As this was a chinese replacement stator I decided to then put my old stock one back in, and am still getting very warm wires. Am a bit apprehensive to take it for a ride and test it. Are the stator wires supposed to get warm in normal use? For it to be getting so warm I get the feeling something is drawing absolutely all the power that the alternator is outputting? You can feel the stator also getting warm through the engine case. The regulator didn't warm up so much.
 

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... Are the stator wires supposed to get warm in normal use?
Yes, they are going to get hot - supplying about 25A so yes, that's a lot of current - and when you have ANY kind of poor connection at the connector (poor crimps or simply poor connector terminal to terminal contact - the OEM Yazaki type is not ideal in this regard) then there will be significant heat dissipated at the highest resistance point.

For it to be getting so warm I get the feeling something is drawing absolutely all the power that the alternator is outputting? You can feel the stator also getting warm through the engine case. The regulator didn't warm up so much.
That is the way a Shunt Regulator works - it will ALWAYS create the maximum current draw that the stator can provide, regardless of the actual load demanded by the bike's electrical system.
With an OEM R/R, that is Shunt but utilizes SCR's for the Shunt devices - these have higher conducting resistance, so the heat is all dissipated through those devices and the the R/R body (heatsink) gets very hot indeed!
With a MOSFET R/R, the conducting resistance of the shunt devices is extremely low - this creates minimal heat dissipation in the R/R and it remains relatively cool; now the most likely place to dissipate some energy is going to be outside of the R/R = again, the connector is that weak link.

Personally, I use a better high-current connector and create stellar crimps which are subsequently soldered after crimping.
Unless you have a proper crimping tool for the type of terminals being utilized, and are skilled at soldering, your best bet may be to simply butt-splice the stator wires to the R/R wires i.e. no connector at all. Others will twist the wires, solder and heat-shrink over.

A series Regulator is much more forgiving of both your wiring and the stator itself - when a Series R/R is employed the stator will only provide the amount of current demanded by the bike's standard operating current - if you turn the lights off the stator current will be lower (with a shunt regulator, turning off lights does not change the current being generated by the stator, as it will always be MAX)
Read more about Series R/R in my sticky thread in the Speed Triple sub-forum
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thanks DEcosse for the explanation. I am currently using the R/R from a 2002 Yamaha R1, which if I understand correctly is the MOSFET type. Also, I'm using the stock stator which has the original triumph plug, with the link lead to connect to the R/R. Will upgrade the connectors as suggested (am thinking the same as I use in drones, some XT60's) . I may also replace the sleeve around the stator wires with some tape/cable ties to help dissipate any heat more easily.
 

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Hi
The plug got hot due to poor a connection, that made more resistance, got hotter and hotter then burnt out. The cables may run warm due to resistance in your new connection and heat passes though the copper core. The stators do run hot and are cooled by the engine oil. Triumphs and some CBF Hondas suffer poor stator life due to poor oil circulation in the engine design. Should be good for 15-20 thousand miles though.
To stop future plug burn outs, cut off the plugs and the burnt cables back and solder new lengths in if you haven't got enough slack. Slide some heat shrink sleeving over first.
Also helps if you run with your lights on.
Hope that helps
 
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