[rob blackburn]

Many thanks. I wish I was as good as you documenting what I've been up to!

 

[sussurf]

Glad to hear, from both of you!
I've been mostly riding & enjoying my bikes after all the work.
The Sprint is up to about 83,000k and is an absolute blast to tour on and the Daytona is around 33,000k and gets the weekend duties up the mountain.
I've just ordered 3 new chain & sprocket kits including one for the Husky, which generally gets daily duties but is up to anything really.
I've gone to a high quality 520 chain conversion for the Daytona so we'll see if the reduced mass has any effect.

 

[rob blackburn]

After a long confinement to the house due to lockdown I can now report Ive done 1000 miles so I'm happy the liners and pistons are "run in". I know many people don't bother with these distances but I couldn't "short change" the engine. So thoughts right now.

The Rapid Bike Autotune is showing two things:
very large increase of on average 30% in fuel requirement at 5-30% TP and 4500 to 6000
limited increases above 8000 rpm.


I can understand the limited data above 8000 rpm as its is difficult to hold the throttle open on the roads to give the autotune time to work (though I will check this assumption with Rapid Bike). My main concern is that the large increase in this mid throttle range gives a higher potential output than using the cams in my first build. Which with these cams doesn't follow the theory of them peaking higher up the rev range.

So given its time for an oil change Ill do a check on the timing just to make sure nothings moved or I set something up wrong (which is of course possible). Will report later

 

[RampantParanoia]

I'm glad you've got it run in That's weird about the fuel increase

What did you do in terms of oil/change intervals etc to run it in out of interest? When I get my bike up together I'm was thinking of running mineral oil for the first 250 miles, change oil and filter then standard synthetic for another 750 miles, at which point it's run in so another oil and filter change and back to normal intervals.

 

[rob blackburn]

I used standard semi synthetic. Nothing special. I of course should have added that drive-ability wise it picks up very quickly (to answer the "seat of the pants question"). Its got more umph than the RS. Which makes me wonder if I've timed the exhaust wrong

 

[rob blackburn]

My Cam check revealed i'd timed exhaust at 108 BTDC (same as RS) so Ive moved it back to 105 as plan , but Ive also added the Denton Velocity stacks as detailed by Kristian earlier in this deliberation. Some photos as I had to cut the airbox and plastic weld it closed after. Also used a fair bit of silicon to make sure they dont move.

Anyhow Id expected the move of 3 degrees of exhaust timing would loose me some air flow , but with the velocity stacks added I seem to have ended up needing more fuel in the mid range. Given Im unlikely to hold the throttle open long enough on the road for the auto fuel to cut in about 8500 it may well be dyno visit!!

 

[rob blackburn]

OOPs sorry for standard of photos - just realised they are blurred.

 

[rob blackburn]

Update after a few more months of use.

I discovered that I had been getting a conflict on the Rapid Bike running the factory O2 and the add on O2 which allowed faster exhaust gas analysis. Have turned the factory O2 off on the ECU I have been getting much more sensible results on the fuel maps and have now modified the trims to this below

From around 35% throttle the add ons (8000 upwards) are guestimates as its very difficult to hold the throttle open for long enough to get the fuel feedback data and retain ones licence on the roads in the uk. So it looks like if I want to populate the second half of the map its either a track day event or Dyno. I'm going to carry on fine tuning and will report back sometime in the future

 

[mangosmoothie]

Camshafts and timing

This is probably the most interesting bit and most complex.

I could simply fit the 955i valve gear and cams but I don't do this right away as I felt they wouldnyt give me the type of road response I'm after. So I went down down the route of 955i exhaust cam onto the 1050 head in the inlet cam position with its inlet cam going to exhaust cam position ( Daytona cams in S3???). Having run the bike for a year now, and from forum feedback, particularly Sussurf I'm going down the 955i Cams when I pull the engine apart (timed at 105/105) - more later.

Can this be done without adjustable cam gears? Is there a way to count teeth and/or align arrows on the stock cams which should get it close?

 

[robncal.blackburn]

Sussurf and rampart paranio have both opened out the standard cam slots to get the same effect. One tooth is far to many degrees to risk a guess.

 

[mangosmoothie]

I'm interested in doing this cam swap on a 02-05 speed triple.

Basically, I want the daytona exhaust cam to be 95.25 lobe center on the intake and the 1050 cam as 105 on the exhaust.

Are you guys slotting both the 955i exhaust cam and the 1050 intake? approximately where are the arrows landing when you do this swap?

 

[sussurf]

Can this be done without adjustable cam gears? Is there a way to count teeth and/or align arrows on the stock cams which should get it close?

The only way to tell would be with dial gauges on the cams and a degree wheel on the crankshaft but I don't like the idea of hoping there won't be any valve to piston collision by skipping a tooth.

 

[sussurf]

I'm interested in doing this cam swap on a 02-05 speed triple.

Basically, I want the daytona exhaust cam to be 95.25 lobe center on the intake and the 1050 cam as 105 on the exhaust.

Are you guys slotting both the 955i exhaust cam and the 1050 intake? approximately where are the arrows landing when you do this swap?

If you're changing the timing on both cams from factory then both cam sprockets need to be slotted. Doing it this way, the arrows will align as they should but to the new timings.

 

[mangosmoothie]

disregard

 

[mangosmoothie]

I guess I'm confused how you position the daytona exhaust cam for the intake.

If using adjustable cam gears, do you orientate the lobes like they are on a stock intake cam, install the cam gear, see where it lands?

 

[sussurf]

You need to thoroughly research cam timing procedure, as I did, to get your head around it.
With adjustable cam sprockets, the timing arrows should always point toward each other indicating correct timing. The camshafts themselves will be rotated relative to the sprockets to achieve the desired timing.

 

[mangosmoothie]

I understand what cam degreeing is and how to do it.

what I’m not understanding is how to make an intake cam function as an exhaust for example. Do you attach the sprocket to the cam as you would for an exhaust cam, despite it being an intake cam?

 

[mangosmoothie]

deleted, this was originally snotty and I apologize

 

[3triples]

seems like you position the gear on any intake or exhaust cam (with bolts in the holes marked exhaust), and it becomes an exhaust cam, and vise versa. then you set up a dial indicator on valve bucket to set max lift at the desired degree wheel spec. of 104-105 deg afterTDC for intake and anywhere from 96-105 deg beforeTDC for exhaust. I think he said it is easier with out the shims installed for the first check.

 

[mangosmoothie]

Thank you, that’s how I understood it. Just wanted to make sure. But when using stock sprockets there’s no way to know where it lands when mixing/matching sprockets and cams. A dial should be used. Really, it should always be used. But when factory stock it’s assumed reasonably close.