[rob blackburn]

Regarding the liners. I played with the old 79 mm pistons and if you are careful you can get them in as the manual says. The 80 mm s. No chance as they are bigger than the leading edge diameter. So use some thin tools (credit card cut in half a good) to assist.

 

[Kristian]

Hi Rob,

Finally got the chance to get back online after my vacation. Have not had time to play with the maps yet, but maybe get some time over the weekend.
I got my velocity stacks from eBay, a guy based in Leeds makes them out of aluminium. Claims an 18hp increase if combined with a better flowing filter...….. but looks nice and only cost £59.95. Search "velocity stacks Triumph 1050", should be the first that come up for the Sprint (also fit S3).

Thanks again for the files!

 

[Terry Colley]

...got my velocity stacks from eBay, a guy based in Leeds makes them out of aluminium. Claims an 18hp increase if combined with a better flowing filter...…..

You'll be needing this:

 

[rob blackburn]

Ill hold fire on the velocity stacks as he doesn't list my version of the airbox. I can always pick up at a later date.

Still cleaning up the head. I found removing the casting marks no both sides of all the ports a little more time consuming than I thought it would be. Photos soon.

 

[sussurf]

Exhaust is more problematic as there is only about 3mm thickness between the water passage and exhaust port so Ill need to think about how I match this to the exhausts system.

Hi Rob.
On every Triumph triple I've done this to, the exhaust port was bigger than the header primary so I just dremelled out the headers.
The only grinding I did in the exhaust ports was to remove casting high spots.

 

[rob blackburn]

Update

I did clean out the header on the 955 i exhaust I had ready to fit (see photos) but withe the 1050 low boy I could take out that much material. Given I'm staying with this low boy system I just cleaned the casting and opened up the exhausts very slightly.

 

[rob blackburn]

Liners and Pistons

I fitted the two out liners with the pistons already inside them and then fitted the centre using the "wiggle" technique (along with using a coupel of credit cards to help the rings in). The centre fit was easy to do so if I go big bore again I don't think Ill bother with worrying about fitting all the pistons as per triumph manual.

On to Cam timing

 

[DonTheMan]

When you say “fitted the liner with the piston already inside”, do you mean it’s possible to get the wrist pin circlip fitted and ring part of the piston stays in the liner?
(This bit is worrying me, especially avoiding getting sealant everywhere at the same time)

 

[rob blackburn]

It is possible with the two outer liners. But not the centre one. See photo. You've still got the same access to the piston. You put the three bond on after you have everything in place with the liner still above the engine top surface . In the photo of piston one once I had the circlip in position I then went round with sealant and pushed the liner into position. But hold it with some form of aluminium clips as per other photo as you move the crank around. Also watch the build up of sealant in between the liners when piston two is low in the engine. I did get a bit of sealant on the rings (as they were pushed out to one side) on one side which needed cleaning off. But it was easy to do. I probably also used too much sealant as well!! But its first time I've done this, so you learn. Best of luck.

 

[rob blackburn]

Cams and Timing

I decided to stay with both of the 955i cams using the 1050 springs for exhaust and purchasing the double springs and cap for the inlet. I'm also going to utilise the NGK CR9EK plug that in the 955i as it one grade harder than the normal 1050 (though the new RS uses a harder 9 grade iridium version).

I followed the same approach as before with the timing, leaving the shims out while I moved the cams about. I am going to do secondary check on the timing when I get the shims back in. Then its engine back into the bike.

I plan to run with the base 1050R map as before, with the f/l switch turned off and the 1st gear ignition map across all three map modes (it will make it easier for fuel tuning).

Though now I'm back now to my ignition conundrum.

The cams have more lift and more duration so I've transposed the 955i ignition curve into the 1050 map, though the two ECUs probably work very differently. Plus the RS map (which should be far closer to my build) is now available (thanks Tune ECU) - so I've transposed that as well.

So which map to use once I'm up and running. Have a look and see what you think.

 

[Terry Colley]

I'm no expert when it comes to ignition curves but I do know chasing performance with overly aggressive advance can lead to damage. With that in mind, and in view of all the work you've put into this project I'd be inclined to begin with the gentlest and most moderate curve. Use that to 'settle' the new engine in until you're happy with it's general running and then start experimenting with the other curves you have available - perhaps during a dyno session. It often happens that when chasing the highest peak output that the all important 'driveability' is lost. A case in point is the number of Street Triple RS owners who wish they'd chosen the S model. Lower peak output but more enjoyable to ride. (of course there are probably as many S owners who covet the RS output).

I'm suggesting you begin conservatively, so which of your three curve options is the most modest?

 

[rob blackburn]

Cam Timing

Final final check.. They were a little out which I thought they might be as Id only done approximate set up.

Inlet 104.5 ATDC (I spent nearly two hours getting this one this close!)

Exhaust 105 BTDC

Now to get the engine back in.

 

[sussurf]

Will you dyno?

 

[rob blackburn]

Probably once I've finished playing . Just to see final output. But when will it be finished??? Hmm

 

[rob blackburn]

November Update



The bike is back on the road and I've now done the first 40 miles. Its starting to build the fuel data with the Rapid Bike module, but given I'm limiting it to 5000 rpm for the first 100 miles there isn't much data to re-feed into the ECU. I did have fun getting engine back in as with this frame you have to lift it up on a slight angle and then drop it back to clear the lower rear cross member on the frame. Hydraulic engine lift proved useful.

Its slightly high on idle but Ill rebalance the throttle bodies now I've given it a run (I noticed this last time I put the throttle bodies back and ran it for a period). I'm running the standard ignition curve for the 1050 R (though using 1st gear map across all gears) and I'm just using just the F graphs (turned the F/A to Zero). Plan is to do the same as last time but once I've got the RB module maps built Ill play with ignition advance before resetting the ECU.

I ran the TuneECU diagnostic log on the 2002 955i to see how that ignition curve worked . I was aware its map is based on calculated load but I was hoping to be able to work out the relationship between throttle position and the load. But the log showed me there were other things going on inside the ECU (ie the ignition curve advance looked right against the map for idle but dropped from 12 degree to 6 when warm) which means I wont try using the 955i ignition curves even with some form of interpolation. I still plan to run the log on the 1050 RS to see what happens here but I thinks its unlikely they will be useful. Ill see though.

Sorry for the delay in updating for those following.

 

[Terry Colley]

You're pretty game putting the engine in on your own. I can do most things on my own but need another pair of hands when installing a 955/1050 engine especially lining up the holes and getting that first bolt in.

Anyway, great to see it's on the road. I know you're still setting it up but what's your initial 'seat of the pants' feeling?

 

[rob blackburn]

I've an admission. I did get a close friend to operate the engine lift while I got the bolts in, plus he stood there reading the detailed tightening sequence from my phone (where I had the manual).

Seat of pants. Hmm --- difficult to judge when it gets to 5000rpm in a few seconds. I've been riding the 955i recently and compared to this it feels as though it pick up quicker ie more torque. But that's probably a factor of the 1075 cc as opposed to the 955 cc. Ill get a few more miles on it and then have a ride of the 1050 RS in comparison and report.

 

[blacki999]

Four years ago I swapped an '06 engine into my '05 Daytona 955i. At the time I was aware that the '06 Daytona engine used the then new 1050 cases with the 955i crankshaft, pistons, rods, cylinder liners, alternator, Sagem ECU, though the 1050 had a 6.4mm longer stroke. I wasn't sure if the deck height was the same, or if the new engine would have cylinder head mounts 3.2mm out of line with my old frame. Fortunately, everything lined up.

Anyway, I got the engine out with some difficulty, single handed, by stacking a wooden platform under the engine, lifting away the bike then lowering the engine to the floor. This was obviously not easily reversible. I ended up buying a chain block, attaching it to a beam in the garage roof, propping up the roof and hanging the engine by two rope slings. I was amazed at how easy it was to wangle the engine in and line up the engine mount holes, single handed. The bolts almost fell in. I'm retiring next year, I'll probably do some Speed Triple 1050 project, so I'll swap engines again, the same way.

I compared the Daytona and Speed Triple specs in the Triumph 955i workshop manual. One difference is that the Daytona has much smaller piston-to-bore clearance, Daytona 0.005-0.033mm, Speed Triple 0.055-0.090mm. Other interesting differences too, 35mm dia big end journals vs 41mm, 17mm gudgeon pins vs 19mm, forged pistons vs cast, all of which made the Daytona (in my experience) a smoother engine. The cams too, of course, and even different oil routing. The 1050 engines inherited the Daytona's smaller 35mm big ends and 17mm gudgeon pins. The other important difference is the Nikasil plated aluminium cylinder liners, vs cast iron. I assume the similar thermal expansion rates of the aluminium pistons and liners makes possible the tighter clearance.
I read that the RS uses forged pistons and Nikasil plated aluminium liners, like the Daytona. I wonder if these liners and small clearances are needed to allow a safe 11200rpm limit.
IanB

 

[rob blackburn]

I've reached the point where I've taken the engine on about six runs now so I've got about 250 miles with the new pistons. So the output from the Rapid Bike autotune. The core bit to focus on for this stage is the 4% TPS and above and 1850 rev and above. I'm seeing the engine needing 20 - 30% more fuel to hit the 13.2 Air/Fuel ratio. Need to do longer now above 5000 revs!! But you know Im still working on it (despite

bad weather)

 

[RampantParanoia]

I met up with Rob the other day as he has kindly lent me his liner extraction tool for my own project. I got to see the Daytona in the flesh and it looks incredible, he's done a fantastic job