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Discussion Starter #21
I think you'll find the "Speedmaster" of the 60's 70's was a front tyre which was quite "rounded". Popular rears were the "Universal", which was squarish, but became more rounded, then came the Safety mileage, which was quite rounded from the start.

I think! Long time ago.
You may well be right, but like you say it was a long time back. For some reason after I wrote my reply, I starting thinking that I'd got it wrong and it was actually called a 'Roadmaster', or am I now confusing this with a 'routemaster'? bus that is. Don't you hate getting old!
 

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I remember back in the late 70's Avon did a tyre called a 'Speedmaster'. It was pretty much a square section tyre, a mate of my brothers had a nasty spill on an old RD250 with one fitted, I was still in nappies but I remember people used to call them Avon deathmaster's. In the 90's I had a hardtail CB750 chop fitted with a square section bike tyre on the rear, the tread was reminiscent of an old crossply tyre. I've got no idea what make of tyre it was but I rode on it with no issues. You do have a good point about British roads being designed for horse and carts though, they can get quite windey.
Yep, I had a CB125 and CD175 with them fitted in the mid-70s. Fell off twice cornering when the rear end slid away. Not sure I'd trust one on my Commander ;)

Then again, those were the days when Japanese tyres had such a poor reputation you always tried to put British rubber on your bike. In the case of the square section Speedmaster (and I'm pretty sure it was called that) it was not the best option :eek:
 

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Have you ridden a bike fitted with a car tyre?
Yes, I have. I was a service writer for 2 years and had multiple bikes come in like that. Most shops won't even test ride a bike with a car tire fitted, and pulling them around the back of the building to the lifts was always sketchy business. Look, just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. You know what? On second thought. Go ahead and do it. Sounds like you guys that are for it are on a tight budget and really need to get 40,000 miles out of a motorcycle tire. I mean, when on a budget, high mileage outweighs safety any day of the week!
 

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You see these pictures of the heavy bikes on darkside tires in the corners, and it's off-putting to see how much tread isn't on the pavement. But, there is just a ton of tread. I really wonder if the contact patch really is that much smaller than if this guy were on a more rounded MC rear tire?

D8D45F20-C8A4-4C3B-97BC-5F072C18E7DA.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #27
You see these pictures of the heavy bikes on darkside tires in the corners, and it's off-putting to see how much tread isn't on the pavement. But, there is just a ton of tread. I really wonder if the contact patch really is that much smaller than if this guy were on a more rounded MC rear tire?

D8D45F20-C8A4-4C3B-97BC-5F072C18E7DA.jpeg
I think the contact patch on the road isn't that different from a bike tyre, if you look at small engine'd bikes with skinny rear tyres they stick to the road fine, obviously depending on the tyre quality.
 

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Yes, I have. I was a service writer for 2 years and had multiple bikes come in like that. Most shops won't even test ride a bike with a car tire fitted, and pulling them around the back of the building to the lifts was always sketchy business. Look, just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. You know what? On second thought. Go ahead and do it. Sounds like you guys that are for it are on a tight budget and really need to get 40,000 miles out of a motorcycle tire. I mean, when on a budget, high mileage outweighs safety any day of the week!
Well like I said previously, one of the main reasons for myself riding a bike is that it is a damn sight cheaper than running a car, in the UK it is anyway. So the more mileage I can out of a tyre the better, also at a budget price to boot. This is also the reason I ride mid sized bikes because it keeps the tax and insurance cost's down. I'm prepared to give the idea a go, I can always switch back to the bike tyre if it doesn't work out.
 

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I don't darkside, but I'm OK with people that do.

For example, there are people on big touring bikes that are eating lots of miles on interstates, often with heavy loads. They don't expect or need top performance in the twisties. They don't want to be replacing tires every 5K either, when a car tire might go 20K. Rocket's, for example, are a natural for darksiding.

Tire companies should really make a MC tire with a design comprise more on the heavy touring/longetevity side of the equation as an option. Until then, there will be darksiders.

-Ed
 

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BB, the muffler and the bag seem to be part of the contact patch, I guess that helps?
 

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Realistically, you're riding on the street not the track. There is a lot of tire elitism out there.

Round and black is important. Beyond that pretty much anything works on the dry street.

Even the black part was optional for a while when you could get all those colorful retreads,
 

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I’ve never read a thread about dark siding that the OP was not going to do it anyway.
It is a copy paste deja vu.

Forget that MC tires are different for a reason. Forget that MC tires used to be car tires and changed, for a reason. Forget MC rims are different and a car tire won’t properly seat. Forget no company ever has thought of developing a “hybrid” even close to a car tire for motorcycles. All I see is “have you tried? If not how would you know?” I’m not going to try it, ever, for a reason.
 

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"Been There, Still Doing That!"

I'm not trying to influence anyone one way or another, just providing my DS experience to keep the equation balanced. 117,000 DS miles and counting.

Do what you're comfortable with but please don't spew the same old second hand misinformation.

People are usually not just going to CostCo or a discount tire store and randomly buying a cheap CT of the same diameter as their OEM MC tire and throwing it on.

Most people do their research to select an appropriate quality tire Manufacturer, make, and dimensions to match their needs that others have proven out.

Get the right tire and it seats just fine. Many, many thousands of folks have been happily running CT's for many, many years and IF there were any that ever had issues it was due to:
A. They were not properly installed in the first place or
B. They had improper air pressure or
C. It was a defective tire (which could happen to MC tires too) or
D. The rim itself was compromised

https://darkside.nwff.info/?p=tires is a good source of real-world information showing over 1,000 bikes from various companies and the DS tires they run.

There are many more safe tires not listed there that can be found on forums such as this.

/start Cut&Paste

I happen to run Double-Darkside [CT on rear, reversed rear MC tire on front] on my 2005 Rocket III and it is a superb combo.

Overall the 245/50ZR16's Double-Dark set up performs 95% of a MC-only set up and would be even better if I went with a narrower rear, but 245's look gnarly IMHO.

The main issues occur at very slow speed on uneven surfaces or in extreme twisties. Launch grip and wet handling improvements offset those minor differences.

Plus, I only get to do really hardcore twisties <5% of my rides. If it were over 80% I would get a lighter sport bike (or perhaps a new 2020 R3R??).

My 1st 35,000 miles were on 5 MC tires. That's about $1,250.🤬

I'm on my 5th CT now and got 25,000 miles out of each of the first 4. That will be 125,000 miles for $600. Triple miles @ 1/2 cost.😍

Based on $330 for an Avon Cobra Chrome lasting 8,000 miles, my next 125,000 miles would take 16 MC tires at a cost of >$5,000.

Based on $92 for my current Riken Raptor lasting 25,000 miles my next 125,000 miles would take 5 CT's at a cost of <$500.

$4,500 saved in rear rubber will pay 1/2 of the estimated $9,250 fuel bill or 55-60 hotel nights on those longer adventures.🏍🏍🏍

Here is my tire history on the '05 R3:

Rear
OEM Metzler ME880's 2005, 2006, 2006
Avon Cobra 2007, 2007
Averaged 7,000 miles each at $250 apiece (they are $300 or more now)
DS:
1 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 $184 6/2008 - 25K miles
A 9,800 mile Cross country trip would have required a MC tire change.
2 Toyo Proxes T1R 245/55ZR16 100W $175 7/2009 - 25K miles
3 Riken Raptor #1 ZR Performance Tire 245/50-16 $120 6/2011
broke 100,000 miles 6/2012 - 25K miles
4 Riken Raptor #2 ZR Performance Tire 245/50-16 $118 each 9/2013 (put on at 110,000??) - 25K miles
5 Riken Raptor #3 ZR Performance Tire 245/50-16 $92 9/2019 at 135,000 - 7,200 miles now and looks new (I would have changed a MC tire)

Front
Michelin Road 5 150/70ZR17 $180 - Rear MC tire flipped backwards - put on at 130,000.
$50 less than an Avon and will get 14,000 miles vs 11,000 and improves cornering.

/end Cut&Paste

My 2015 Roadster is DS rear and I will be going Double-Darkside on that when the current front tire wears out.
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
I've been chatting to some nice chaps on the Rocket forum about darksiding and they've given me a lot of useful and very insightful information about the subject, I would like to thank 'r3tribal' who obviously has a great deal of knowledge about darksiding as well as shed loads of experience in the practice, exactly the sort of information I'm looking for.

Also 'Maxspede' has a good point about normal road riding condition's as opposed to track riding, I ride a Triumph America, not some 200mph plus plastic missile, as I'm sure some of you realise a 790cc Triumph 'cruiser' is not really known for it's handling or performance prowess, when you hit a 100mph on one you know it! So high speed cornering isn't on the option list for these bikes, but I like it anyway.

I would also like to point out that if you read my discussion starter on this thread properly I said that 'I would be interested to hear from anyone who has actually tried darksiding?'
This means I'm not interested in hearing from anyone who hasn't tried darksiding. Your opinions are yours and my opinions are mine, lets keep it that way eh!
 

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@cheeryfulljerry - thanks for the post. You've taught me something new today. :)
 
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