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Hi Rick, You can blow up the photo with the draw bolt & see my basket after filing.

I went on 70 mile ride today all the while thinking about my filing job... I stand by it's not right like I want it to be. I'm not filing them if they're that bad again. I'm just getting new parts.

Back to your bike, did you get new basket? What did you do with the hub grooves?

I find when I put things in freezer to shrink they get soaking wet from condensation which can rust later. So I quit doing that.

I pull them apart & together at room temperature. Some 750 hubs are really, really tight though. 650 ones much looser. I bought a used 650 center spline (with taper) for a 750 job. Same part #. Interestingly it fit tight in the 750 hub, but was a finger tight press fit in the 650 hub. So apparently the splines in the cush hub are modified tighter to get the tight fit 750s have.

Don
 

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On the lighter side, but still relating to clutch grooving....

This is the worst case of grooving I've seen on a Triumph... '71 Bonnie 15k miles. Never had primary oil changed from new. I'm not sure if the motor oil was changed since the 500 mile service. The friction material was not badly worn. Complaint was some times clutch slipped really bad, other times would not release & would stall motor at idle. I verified both on road test. Rod & lever adjustment was ok. Owner had no $$. I got complete used primary drive from the cycle wrecking yard, tensioner & all for $25. Worked perfect. Back in 1974.

I had the junk basket & hub laying around & felt artsy one day. So I made a lamp from the Triumph clutch hub & basket, Volvo cluster gear, Audi trans spider & Porsche trans bearing. I made a little stained glass shade. Topped it off with an old 2 piece Harley spark plug. Had it on my desk for years. Now it's in the junk room of junk I keep for no good reason. But the Triumph parts serve as a bad example.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I've been looking online for a source for either the Hyde or Aerco 7 plate kit, I don't find anyone in the US with either in stock. Does anyone know how long shipping from the UK takes to get over here in the states? East Coast.

I've decided to go ahead and replace the whole cush hub. The grooves from the tangs of the clutch weren't bad but there is noticeable wear on the backing plate from the spider, easily felt with a finger. All said and done it's worth the piece of mind I'm hoping.
 

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I agree. This might be a good time to install a Hyde 7 plate system. They're made in Italy and so far, I've had pretty good luck with it. Of course, many people end up finding more enjoyment working on their Triumphs than actually riding them.
 

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You can flip the backing plate over. OTOH they used to have complete and assembled SA hubs for sale....probably still do [I haven't looked]. This can be a good alternative to buying all the parts and doing it yourself.
 

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Hi Rick, Nobody I know of sells Hyde in USA. I get mine direct from Hyde UK. Pay with paypal or visa. They do the exchange rate & all that & charge about $5 or so service fee added to price & shipping. I prefer paypal. Sometimes credit card will block international order so call card company. Depends on exchange rate, the last one I paid about $185 total. Shipping is fast, usually about 1.5 weeks. I've gotten several without issues.

Bonneville Shop sells Aerco & usually has them in stock. I've never used an Aerco, but others on group have to same good results. My next one will be Aerco since they are reported good. Roger & Brian at Bonneville Shop actually ride old Triumphs for real so they tend to be pretty up on what works good.

In any case I would get all new still plates also. Worn tangs on old plates seem to groove the new parts faster. They are not that costly. The 7 plate kits are sold 7+1 meaning 1 new steel for the added plate & 7 frictions. So make sure you get the full kit of 7 & 7.

You will be really amazed at how nice a complete new clutch set up works.

When you see new friction plates you'll see how thin the friction pads are. But they last well. Use new 650 springs. Adjust spring nuts until end of spring bolt is flush with dome on nut, not the slot. Then true pressure plate wobble by going deeper with 1 nut & looser with 1 nut, but if you have to back off a nut very much, start over going deeper with all.

I used to do flush with screw slot, but found the clutch might get micro slipping you may not really feel, but it reduced friction pad life. I go deeper now even though it might increase lever effort a little. In any case lever effort is way easier than with 750 springs.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #50
After a long break, life gets busy sometimes, I am back working on the Bonneville. Figuring the oil pressure issue is job #1 i took apart the Oil Pressure Relief Valve. The piston was frozen with just a tiny sliver of the port open. It was stuck with some sludge, not rust or corrosion, it took a pretty solid whack to get it loose. I cleaned it up and the piston now slides freely but I think I'll replace it. Next I'll check to see if I inverted the main seal.I did get the Aerco 7 plate conversion and installed it. I have an oil pressure test kit of sorts, once I get it back together I'll be working with that. I have taken careful note of the delicate threads there and will go gently.
 

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Hi Rick, Good you got the PRV freed up! Good you actually found it stuck so you know you corrected a real problem.

After very careful examination for burrs etc. which it sounds like you did, I would not replace it yet... The repros are sometimes (often??) not as good. In any case DO NOT use stainless version. Stainless dome nut is fine, but the piston does not like to slide freely over a stainless body.

My suggestion is reuse the old one then test oil pressure. I have a Harbor Freight oil pressure test kit. The threads on your timing cover are not included in any kit I could find. Hard to come by an adaptor connector also. However you can use tapered adaptor, tightened just barely more than finger tight. Or the British Pipe straight adaptor, again only a trace more than finger tight. No matter if you get a few drips of oil so long as it's not streaming out at all the reading will be accurate enough. . The gauge reading will verify good or bad.

If... oil pressure tests good, I would remove timing cover to inspect crank seal. If you thought about direction on install, you probably got it right.

I'm old & insecure, so I've started taking photos of all my work as I go so I can go back & verify. However I go slow on assembly & double, triple check things before moving on.

In the last 10 months I've had experience on three Aerco 7 plate kits now. I have really gotten to like them & highly recommend them. Have proven as durable as Hyde & work the same. However the stock steel pressure plate works better with Aerco do to the larger inside diameter of the friction pads. I've found on all 3 kits the friction pads are slightly thinner than Hyde, so I would measure stack height & go deeper with spring nuts. Nominal is 1.400". Stacks seem to be about .375-.385" or so. That puts spring nuts about a full revolution deeper than flush with dome.

On a side note should one desire an alloy pressure plate the only one I can find on the market now that is desireable with 7 plate is MAP Cycle plate. It has an OD of 5.680" & the face against plates is .300" wide.

In comparison the stock steel plate OD is 5.375". Pressure face is .125" wide. However again this stock plate works fine with Aerco, ok with Hyde. I feel MAP alloy is a good improvement with Hyde.

I've not found the "open" design of some alloy plates make a difference one way or the other.

All other alloy plates on the market I've seen have a smaller OD which is a move backwards for 7 clutch do to size of friction pads.

Britech alloy is the "king of pressure plates" in my mind. The OD is 5.700 with a .500" wide pressure face. Most ideal for Hyde plates. A good alloy for Aerco. Currently on back order for who knows how long. If you find one on eBay, snap it up as they are very rare.

Let us know what happens with the oil pressure after cleaning valve.
Don
 

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Hi Rick, Don,

1976 Bonneville
The threads on your timing cover are not included in any kit I could find. Hard to come by an adaptor connector also.
Oil pressure switch thread in both '76 and '73 timing covers is 1/8"NPS (National Pipe Straight). Common 1/8"NPT (National Pipe Tapered) male thread adapter should screw in without too much trouble, only bear in mind the thread in the timing cover is only about 3/8" long so, the longer a taper-thread fitting the greater the difference between the male thread OD and the female (timing cover) thread ID.

Or the British Pipe straight adaptor,
I wouldn't - 1/8"BSP male OD is significantly (in thread terms) less than 1/8"NPS female ID and BSP is 1 tpi different from 1/8"NP threads.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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well u sure are getting huge amount of both good and not so god advice here. I think one important thing to note is the earlier suggestion saying it ok to use a fitting for pressure guage test that has a NPT thread instead of the std NPS that is the thread on the oil pressure sender switch. If i had a dollar for every timing cover i have repaired after people found they pay lot less for basic sender that screws into car cyl block and has a NPT thread rather than genuine Lucas one that has NPS thread only to find they split timing cover before the washer that must be used with genuine part anywhere near contacting it's mating surface i would have quite a healthy stash for my retirement after 50yrs as a m/cycle mechanic which in early years saw me running w/shop for our local Triumph and Yamaha importers so i can assure u i know a fair bit about wot still one of my faves and now basically do total motor rebulds for a friend who has huge ever growing collection of Brit bikes several with no miles and never bee started from new just turned over originally sourced from States importers ,Johnson motors i think was one of the 2 importers i understand u guys had. so my friend assures me he will keep me employed til i fall off my perch as it were.. But back to the switch the reason for the copper sealing washer is because original NPS thread is straight whilst the trap for young players that go for the cheaper NPT switches is that thread is tapered so all sweet screwing into say cast iron blocks with bit of thread tape and comfortably tightened instantly splits the poor old Trumpy alloy case with very little pressure due to the tapered tread spreading it and not due to as suggested the thn case inthat area. So if u want run a pressure guage make sure u get the correct NPS fitting into cover they not hard to source i have fitted plenty over the years instead of the often failing switchesas even when they work i think they trip out about 8 - 10 psi so that why oil light goes out just kicking over with good oil presure and waste of time steaming down road at 80mph to eventually notice **** oil light on cos u already torched that donk. As for clutch basket that one is almost pristine compared to most and a gentle filing will be sweet but u do not want to widen grooves anymore than u need to as they will then just make deeper grooves and quicker plus tangs on plates will wear faster also. Think i have said enuff but i have to say sadly that the debris on rag looks very similar to big end shell white metal in part so that also not help with low oil pressure indicated by light coming on cos it often the switch but from other symptons u describe it not good. I hope i am wrong . Cheers Mick
 

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Hi All,
I’m pretty certain that the T piece near the frame on a 76 is the oil return pipe/rocker box feed pipe. Not a breather connection-there would be a big mess if that had come off.

regards
Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
I appreciate that you folks are apparently scanning back through the whole thread here. Below is a picture of the T junction. The black hose had come off. It's other end connects to the spine up near the steering head. To the right the silver D shaped tube goes to open air at the end of the rear fender. To the left it goes to a breather in the drive side case. Oil was everywhere, up to and including the battery tray.
Regarding fittings to connect an oil pressure gauge, earlier I had ordered a 1/8 npt 90 degree fitting. From reading here the plan was to gently screw it in by thumb and forefinger and then just a bit more to snug it up. I haven't done that yet and have been searching for and not finding, a 1/8 nps. If anyone knows of a source I'd appreciate it. I'm pretty sure I have enough feel to know how much to tighten the npt fitting without fracturing the case but would rather not risk it unless it's commonly done successfully.
719036
 

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I have no idea what the guy who did that was thinking.
The mid 70's t140's ran a breather to the rear mudguard, the later bikes ran it into the air box. Some owners remove it all together and add a small K&N type just off the chaincase
 

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Hi Rick,That is correct routing of breather. I like to position the steel T such oil drains back into chain case by gravity. As you found if the black vent hose to frame under tank comes off, a fair amount of oil can drain out as oil runs up spinde during braking etc. The air flow behind motor is such oil blows in unexpected directions.

Regarding 1/8 straight pipe with flange for seal & 1/8 taper for gauge hose is hard to find because nobody makes one. 1/8 straight is a common brake hose size, but taper is not found on other end. So I feel you have right idea with 1/4 taper. It's the best you can do.

Don
 

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Hi Mick,

Thanks for your post.

If I understand it correctly, you're saying a 1/8"NPT male thread (oil pressure switch or sender) will split a Triumph twin's timing cover with a 1/8"NPS female thread? :unsure:

If I've understood you correctly, that shouldn't be correct - 1/8"NPS and 1/8"NPT have the same thread major diameter - 0.405". That also should be the 1/8"NPT's maximum diameter, the thread should then taper down from that.

The first Triumphs and BSA's to have oil pressure switches were the triples, those built before a point in January 1969 had NPT-thread switches. All the '69 twins were supposed to have NPS-thread switches, but some early ones also had NPT timing covers and switches, my '69 T100 is one.

A correct NPT switch will fit in a NPS hole. Otoh. one way of splitting a Triumph twin's timing cover is to force a NPS switch into a NPT hole. :(

Regrettably, the other way of splitting a timing cover is shonky pattern OP switches - the switch thread tapers up from 0.405" and, again, if the switch is forced ... 🤬

So if u want run a pressure guage make sure u get the correct NPS fitting into cover they not hard to source i have fitted plenty over the years
Posts in internet forums for old Britbikes say NPS fittings are hard to source certainly in GB and the US. Can you post either a contact for your source or can you supply?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi Rick, Sorry & did typo on post #57. Where I said 1/4, should be 1/8. I can't see edit button these days next to time stamp above post.

Understanding the air box gets in the way try to slope the hose most as possible to get blow by/vent oil to drain back into primary. Here's a pic of mine. Look across frame under battery box & see the slope of my T. If possible, try to get that much slope.

Note: 1973 had a fat hose between breather elbow on primary & steel T. This was very tight fit between case & air box & tended to flatten it. Elbow had fat end also.

As I recall, '74 or so got skinny elbow & breather, which tended to help hose not collect as much oil. I don't know this, but it's my feeling if oil gets trapped by low spot in hose, it may reduce free passage of moisture laden air from primary. Collecting condensation in primary can be a problem that leads to rusting of parts in primary.
Don
 

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