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But sure Key-Less is a nice feature - for those who want that and can eliminate the key-switch completely. In my KeyLess system design, it doesn't even add any external switches at all and the OEM switch it uses to trigger only draws <1mA of current vs 140 mA for a Relay Coil.
Do you make those to sell? Or are you referring to one you are using.


EDIT: After reading everything, and finding another thread about this, I see what you did. And I found the RFID you were referring to. It's been 20 yrs since I really messed with wiring diagrams and such, so it took a min for my brain to kick in. Nicely done project. Looking into doing it myself now. Thanx for the info.
 

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.. I wondered when we were going to get another advert...
That is uncalled for - I was advertising nothing - If my intent was to sell stuff to the people reading this thread, I certainly would not be offering a low cost repair solution with instruction on implementation of that
To the contrary I was responding to & refuting ade-955-i assertion that
If your needing to faff with your ignition for burnt poles you might as well sod the thing off completely,keyless,
and indeed agreeing with your opening declared limitation of scope for this exercise
There are those who will decide to go hands free or keyless, but that is another subject and this thread is not aimed at those people.
ripper said:
The bottom line is that its enough to cause switch failure when coupled with moisture. Its not always the same pair/pairs of contacts that fail and I've known all three pairs to be iffy.
Then your 'repair/upgrade' would also be out the window in that case anyway.

Ripper said:
The point of MY excersise, as the thread creator, was not only repair, but also relieving the switch of as much load as I possibly could.
Get over yourself - creating a thread does not mean you own it

So - you now have relieved the load through the key-switch - why stop there? Do you want to now go and bypass the Hi/Lo switch also, which sees about the same current as the key-switch or your new relay? I would actually offer that installing pair of Headlight Relays is a much more productive solution in that you relieve both the key-switch AND the Hi/Lo switch with just a single pair of relays AND get better headlight performance into the bargain. But then we're back to the primary argument of whether this is a repair or a means of relieving the load on the key-switch.
The other two poles (not the lighting) are for ignition - couple of amps at worst - and the other is only switching momentary loads (brake lights, turn signals, horn) - while those currents are indeed higher, they all are of short duration; if 'live' when making the circuit, (i.e. mechanically changing the switch position vs just applying/removing current) then yes, that can cause arc as the circuit completes; but not an issue when contacts are already closed.

You need to learn a little respect for alternative solutions - I was not in the least critical of yours, (unless you are so sensitive to be offended by the statement "A lot less wiring required"); merely offered an alternative solution for something that will be easier to implement by SOME.
 

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Yeah? So what - you means same as stock and continuing to utilize a pole which is operating just fine?
The point of this exercise was a REPAIR and my offering was the SIMPLEST way to achieve that repair; Yes, you can add multiple relays, or even an RFID device instead of the key, but that was not within the scope of what was simply a repair to overcome the common failure illustrated which is NOT caused by current, but by water ingress.
The current on any of these poles on a Carb Twin is fairly low anyway (single headlight, no fuel pump, no major ancillaries drain) so less benefit than for example an EFI Speed Triple or Rocket3 (that is switching about 15A through a single pole) - on those I would certainly advocate for a pro-active solution to bypass the switch and indeed I provide kits for those (both RFID and simply bypass). For the Twins, as far as REPAIR goes, my suggestion will suffice.
But sure Key-Less is a nice feature - for those who want that and can eliminate the key-switch completely. In my KeyLess system design, it doesn't even add any external switches at all and the OEM switch it uses to trigger only draws <1mA of current vs 140 mA for a Relay Coil.

Oh - and relays never fail, right?

"Yeah? So what - you means same as stock and continuing to utilize a pole which is operating just fine? "

This is true it is stock and at present is operating fine but these ignition switches in certain circumstances are failing!!! and on differing poles

"The point of this exercise was a REPAIR and my offering was the SIMPLEST way to achieve that repair"

NOP the point was cheap ignition switch fix, so yes your offering was cheaper but then it does depend on your definition of cheapness I suppose


"Yes, you can add multiple relays, or even an RFID device instead of the key, but that was not within the scope of what was simply a repair to overcome the common failure"

No but it is within the scope of the heading "cheap ignition switch fix" and that was my opinion on a cheap fix
£20 rfid device £15 relays, and of course your own time which is always the way. If you think that's expensive then I concede, although OP did briefly mention RFID but wanted to continue to use the key switch, that was his choice and I voiced mine

"common failure illustrated which is NOT caused by current, but by water ingress. "

Fair point, you learn something new every day but water and electrics DO NOT go hand in hand,
could this be compounding the ignition issues im burgered if I know?


"The current on any of these poles on a Carb Twin is fairly low anyway"

BUT still the ignition switches fail!!! so as the above statement caused by water? and or voltage/current??

"Oh - and relays never fail, right?"

Yes as you rightly state in opposite logic, they most certainly do fail, but with the choice of pull a relay to replace when my bike wont start or try and coble some wiring fix there and then id prefer a relay
 

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.... BUT still the ignition switches fail!!! so as the above statement caused by water? and or voltage/current??...
So we all know this is a 12V system, so voltage is most certainly not an issue; as for current, even the headlight circuit is only 5A, so it's not like these are switching huge currents. It comes down to contact resistance of the switch which is probably deteriorating due to environmental exposure and then coupled with whatever current it has to deal with, resulting in power dissipation (I^2*R). And the extreme case of environment is that is seen in the example in the picture.
On the Triples for example, these are switching about 14A through the primary pole - they don't look like that when they fail, the resistance causes power dissipation due to the high current load and the solder actually melts! But they are not sitting in a puddle of water like this.

I have no disagreement with your principles Ade-955i - but as I stated in my previous reply, where do you stop? If your goal is relieve any high current circuit by use of relay(s) then that is not the only switch that handles such current.
Yes on my own bike it has ALL the high current circuits bypassed and none of the OEM switches carry anything beyond a couple of hundred mA - and indeed less; so I'm certainly not refuting your point and actually agree with it; again, MY goal (if not Ripper's) was to just offer an easy, low cost solution for a repair of something that is likely to be reliable; now if the switch gets filled to the top with water, then it doesn't matter if its switching 140mA or 5A, so its all moot at that point anyway.
If you want to eliminate mechanical contacts altogether then you go with solid-state switches and bin the relays too.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
That is uncalled for - I was advertising nothing - If my intent was to sell stuff to the people reading this thread, I certainly would not be offering a low cost repair solution with instruction on implementation of that
I'm sorry but I tell things the way I see them. You seem to be comfortable in doing that so I can't see any reason why I shouldn't be. This is the second thread that I have had close involvement with, where you have hijacked the thread and broadcast a shameless plug for you own item. Even Forchetto was moved to comment on it before. So, true or not, this is the image that you have presented to me.

Then your 'repair/upgrade' would also be out the window in that case anyway.
As I stated in the original post - you need ONE GOOD pair of switch contacts. Everything has a point at which it is not feasibly repairable.

Get over yourself - creating a thread does not mean you own it
Now you are twisting my words. If I create a thread then I obviously need a point to the excersise. I was merely stating that point.

You are the one who should be getting over themselves. I know I don't own the thread but likewise knowing a bit about electronics doesn't make you a god either. According to you there is only ever one correct opinion, and that's your own. I freely admit that I'm not the sharpest tool in the box concerning the subject but then neither are you - by the law of averages there's always someone in this world who is better. At least I put what knowledge I have to use to try and help people, despite my tendency to make mistakes but with you it seems to be all about image - "Hey everybody, look here - I got one up on Ripper again. I'm still God!". News flash - Ripper isn't interested in those games, and indeed has never been.

But then we're back to the primary argument of whether this is a repair or a means of relieving the load on the key-switch.
Where did you get the notion that a primary argument exists? If I started the thread with the intention that both are valid, then that is how it is, whether right or wrong. There was no 'primary argument' until you came along - that is your invention.

The other two poles (not the lighting) are for ignition - couple of amps at worst - and the other is only switching momentary loads (brake lights, turn signals, horn) - while those currents are indeed higher, they all are of short duration; if 'live' when making the circuit, (i.e. mechanically changing the switch position vs just applying/removing current) then yes, that can cause arc as the circuit completes; but not an issue when contacts are already closed.
This is coming from the very same guy that told me, long ago before I knew my new bike, that using relays of any less than 30 amps in the ignition circuit was a no-no (a principle that I also hold myself so I'm not disagreeing with that), also saying "What if the contacts welded together"? And by the way, its not only Striples that have fuel pumps. I have one too.

You need to learn a little respect for alternative solutions
As you well know I have a very healthy respect for alternative solutions and I welcome constructive criticism on those of my own. I have not criticised, commented on or even mentioned the solution you presented here. My argument has been all about my reasoning behind starting this thread. You need to learn a little respect for the people on these forums instead of viewing them as a lower form of life, which is far more important in my view.

I was not in the least critical of yours, (unless you are so sensitive to be offended by the statement "A lot less wiring required"); merely offered an alternative solution for something that will be easier to implement by SOME.
Name ONE instance where I have been critical of anything of yours and I will apologise immediately. There have been times when our opinions differed but I have always stated my reasons why and been open to change them, but that is a different thing than criticism of one's offerings. All I have ever had from you, on the other hand is "sledgehammer to crack a nut" and "Rubbish", and general disrespect and sarcasm. I have even gone to the lenghts of avoiding to post on threads where you were posting, both out of respect and a belief that there is room on here for both of us. You give me the impression that you don't agree.
 

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Let's back up a bit here:
I offered an alternative scheme with no criticism of yours
My reply was then dissected and criticized at which point I defended those criticisms and assertions to my motives.

I'm done debating this with you - there are two solutions here and anyone in need can select whichever they deem is most beneficial to them.
 

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End then you started advertising your product again. Have to fully agree with Ripper on this one. Not that the opinion of someone with such a low posts count as myself matters of course.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
 

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make love not war...

I think I might just have a crack at this. I have a handful of RFID devices lying around... cough cough. not an advert.

I will update y'all on my progress
 

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Breadboarding up a potted P&P assy...

One of us could do this, use PC mount relays and just breadboard up something that would just plug in to each side, harness/switch, then pot it up. So people could just D/C their switch plug and plug this in between.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

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Discussion Starter #33
One of us could do this, use PC mount relays and just breadboard up something that would just plug in to each side, harness/switch, then pot it up. So people could just D/C their switch plug and plug this in between.
That's a really neat idea. You can get small potting boxes with mounting flanges, so perhaps it could be mounted in the same way that I fitted the Digital Guard Dawg:
 

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Apologies Ripper, this was the thread I had meant to post on. So, I had a corroded ignition switch which made my motorcycle unstartable. I performed this fix you spoke about (photo attached) and it now starts fine. But, only thing it doesn't need a key to start anymore. I obviously want to have it so it needs the key for security reasons, resale etc. As I mentioned there's the parking light situation (parking lights not working, fuses are working) which I'm not sure is related but if you can help at all that would be great. You can DM if you prefer.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Apologies Ripper, this was the thread I had meant to post on. So, I had a corroded ignition switch which made my motorcycle unstartable. I performed this fix you spoke about (photo attached) and it now starts fine. But, only thing it doesn't need a key to start anymore. I obviously want to have it so it needs the key for security reasons, resale etc. As I mentioned there's the parking light situation (parking lights not working, fuses are working) which I'm not sure is related but if you can help at all that would be great. You can DM if you prefer.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Hi Paddy, I did send you a PM some time ago about this. It looks like it could get quite involved, so to avoid choking up a thread I would rather guide you through by PM so that we can resolve your problem in our own time. PM me when you are ready.
 
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