Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

21 - 40 of 116 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
I see after the last posts I should give you guys some directions on how to work on your bodies, to get more from them in your old age.
Anyway I work on mine and still could start a Triumph Twin or my Trident balanced on my left leg kicking with right. And I'm only 5.7" ( during good day ), 70 and overweight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,978 Posts
Hi Adam, I agree 100%. Fitness in our older years is very important, especially to our overall wellbeing.

However... Things happen such as arthritis or injury, disease, that prevents us from holding & kicking at the same time.

We have to best we can with what we are.

I had right knee injury which prevented right foot kicking. I'm very right footed. I decided to learn left foot kick as many in the club had disabled right leg had to do. I left key & gas off & practiced kicking with left foot, bike on center stand. After some practice it was getting familiar feeling. I had use left leg for 3 months. A few years ago. Point is we have to do what we can if we want to continue kick start bikes. Several old timers & the younger injured, have had to go to modern now with electric start.

Practice certainly helps.

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,978 Posts
Hi Truckedup, Thanks for bringing starting speed up. Interesting observation about Pazon needed a stronger kick. I didn't know that.

With that in mind, would Boyer be better option? Even though it may have a higher voltage threshold.

Most the guys I ride with use Boyer. I've observed in real life they work really well & voltage has not been an issue. I've also observed when you have charging or battery problems, the voltage goes too low for any electronics to work. Even points struggle when charging & battery is poor.

But if starting is easier with Boyer that would be the better option for one that has possible kicking issues in my mind.
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,978 Posts
Hi Truckedup, I'm probably going to go through my motor this winter. I've been most interested in cam timing & will check that. It's original from new now.
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
I'm going to stay with the single amal for now.
Hi, I think this might be a case of "be careful what you wish for" the twin carb motors have a slightly better top end, If your the kind of rider that likes to live in the 7000 + rpm band all of the time then thie twin carbs might be for you.
The problem you get is that with twin carbs at lower RPM the airflow is much slower through the carb than a single. For argument purposes we can say half the speed. There is less inertia in the airflow when you open the throttle at lower rpm, so pickup is not as nice until the rpm rises. The single carb bike just feels more responsive and sweeter in everyday riding.

but i've decided to still go with the Pazon ign. from LowBrow Customs. I'll let you all know how that works out if I have a problem, don't want to jinx myself
I have had most ignition systems, trispark, boyer, boyer digital, pazon, interspan, lucas, power arc.

They are all pretty similar, some are sweeter running, others have a bit more power. (The power arc I have not fitted yet.)

The Pazon will be a good choice, it has a reputation for being reliable and is easy to fit.

It will work with lower battery voltages, although with the advent of AGM batteries that don’t self discharge if left, starting on low voltage is much less likely.
Nowadays, if you park up for a couple of months with a full charge, you come back to a full charge to start the bike.
In the not too distant past the battery would have self discharged itself flat with a lead/acid battery. (That if you have an AGM battery fitted of course).

This diminishes the main advantage of a points based ignition system, where they start easier at low voltages.

Regards
Peg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,364 Posts
Hi Truckedup, I'm probably going to go through my motor this winter. I've been most interested in cam timing & will check that. It's original from new now.
Don
The late Pete Russell said the early 750 intake cams were timed at 107 degree intake lobe centers. I have done a 76 and 79, both were 92-94 degrees.. Bike Vice on Brit Bike says he has checked one or two early 750's and they were closer to 92 degrees. Waiting to see what yours is...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
oh my gosh, I definitely am not going to be able to reply to all questions this time around, but let me try. tridentt good point on over tickling, speedrattle, still like your idea about twin mikunis I checked out the website you sent me top notch outfit, rancidpeg good point, tr7rv, yes i've had the best luck with the kick lever 1/2 way down & I would never think about starting it without it being on either stand good point also, as far as releasing the clutch that seems to become a problem it's not wanting to release most of the time but i'm not ready to go there (this morning I need to get to bed). facts I have left out the last owner had just put 2 new tires(the old ones had plenty of tread the side walls were dry rotted)on, new rear brake cylinder & new front & rear brake hoses & a new battery(approx.13v). I just received my pazon from lowbrow today Todd told me he's never had one go bad yet, but if mine did send it back to him & he'd ship to NZ for me,also he told me all the failures he's seen was do to faulty installation. I've always wanted a bonneville, i've been looking for at least ayr. now. '67-'69 650 for at least a year( that's what my dad had & drag raced) when I was a kid growing up. dad gave it to my brother, said I'd get killed if I had it. so I ran across this tiger for less than 5k, had to have it after the test ride!
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,612 Posts
Hi Brian,

cleaning,
idle fuel is sucked up from bowl through the drilling near needle seat. Goes into carb base & turns 90deg & goes horizontal. This drilling is plugged at the air filter end of carb. Do not remove this plug.
passage is large & that white corrosion is very commonly built up inside.
Ime, much better and easier to remove this plug. With the plug removed, much easier to check the drilling's clear. When reassembling the carb., simply obtain a suitable grub screw (M5, 10-32, 2BA?), tap the air filter end of the drilling for it and secure/seal with Hylomar.

copper wire. Strip it back a few inches. Take one strand & straighten it. Look close at brass idle jet. You can see the hole. Push strand into hole
I wouldn't.

Firstly, it's a jet, not a "hole". Jets are specifically-sized for metering so it's generally bad engineering form to poke random unknown things into them.

The standard Amal idle jet size is 0.016" ID. If you happen to have wire specifically with 26AWG strands, this'll do. Otoh, original wire on a British bike has strands only 0.011" (No. 32 British Standard Wire Gauge) OD and metric 'equivalent' is 0.3 mm. (.012") OD.

Given the next pilot jet size up is only two thousandths of an inch bigger (0.018") but makes a significant difference to the carb. tuning should be as good a reason as any to clean the jet with a proper tool, rather than poke and "wiggle" random things in it.

A correctly-sized drill bit - #78 - is easily- and cheaply-available in most countries. Also, if you don't remove the aforementioned idle fuel plug, if you use a drill bit to clean the jet while holding the carb. body with the air screw (jet access) hole downwards, any corrosion removed by the drill bit is more likely to drop out of the carb., rather than falling into the idle fuel passage, potentially to be drawn back into the jet when the carb. is used ... :Darn

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,364 Posts
I have worked on many different auto and bike carburetors...I believe the Amal is the only one I ever saw with a horizontal fuel passage containing a small orfice..There's a reason not to use horizontal jets...
A local guy had a poor running T120...It had nearly new Concentrics. He "butchered" the pilot attempting to clean it..I drilled out the pilot to maybe .025..then installed a .016 Amal screw in pilot jet in the threaded hole in the float chamber "roof"..I was told this is only for 2 strokes and the engine won't run properly (early Amals used this on 4 strokes)...The engine started easily and idled perfectly with no difference between right and left carbs..Fact or fiction about the screw in pilot jets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
Mhm, when I bought my BSA A65 it had double carb head with both carbs being early Concentric with screw in idle jets and it never worked properly on pickup from idle and had constant surging with steady throttle opening.
I suffered with them for 2 seasons trying to rectify the problem and finally bought 2 used 932 Concentrics in great shape. With them my bike got a second chance on life, difference was so big I couldn't believe it.
I can't be sure my problem was caused by screw in jets, but I believe it was - nothing else was different between old and a new pair I bought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,364 Posts
I believe it was an issue something like you describe causing Amal to change the pilot location...The MK2 had the pilot located in the float bowl...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I really believe this carb is salvageable, if cleaned properly & put quality parts back in it.would it help to tell you all I purchased a sonic cleaner & waiting on it's arrival? will that eliminate me from poking wires through jet holes? Bigger question is do you think I will still need to take the idle jet Plug out after cleaning or can I just shoot air through them to check? what should I use for cleaning fluid? I have a gallon can of carb cleaner I soaked the last carb I cleaned in it & came out like new(no sonic cleaner then) also I bought a gal. of simple green cleaner for aviation parts to put in the sonic tank & no I didn't buy it it just for the Amal, I have 2 barn find bikes(sat for over 30 yrs, + my brother has several carbs that he needs cleaned & offered to split the purchase price with me) now that's all said yes I know my single carb bike will stay up with a bonny, I just wanted it to look like one, I bought 2 retro bonny side covers, they seem to fit great & look a whole lot better than the stock tigers, if I take the stock air filter assy. off, oh don't get me wrong yes ii'l have to do some fabrication to mount them(nothing like a little steel & mig welder can't fix, yes I plan on taking the zener diode off & unhooking ground from battery) not sure about the pazon just unhook the+ground? or take it back off to be safe? yes I know how to weld I taught it & many other things for 30yrs. so Yes i'm going to hook my welder ground cable as close to weld area as possible(just like I taught my kids/that's what I always called them). sorry don't mean to come off as a know it all, that's the last thing I am or I wouldn't be on this forum. I'm just trying to be preemptive about how to weld, however ii'l take all the advice I can get on what electrics/electronics that should be unhooked or removed before welding. thanks again for all your input, I wish you all lived in my neighborhood, i'd think I died & went to heaven, just like "Vintage motorcycle Days":laugh2:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
Most retro side panels made for the oif bikes are made with mountings ready done
A slim filter is available to fit the single carb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
really that's great, I noticed the retros seemed to to fit really nice if I did away with the stock airbox. that's what I had in mind , maybe a pancake bonny filter or do you think that might be too restrictive? open for suggestions what type of aftermarket filter. thanks. dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Note that when one cylinder is intaking, the other is not, so two carbs on a 360 degree twin seem hardly necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
thanks

ok, i'm going to make this fast because I just spent an hr. writing 2 paragraphs which got lost in cyber space(I totally HATE computers). Ntn, and the rest of you that want to tell me 1 carb is as good as 2 Except high speed wide full throttle I'm in full agreement with you, your all correct! let me try to state again I want to convert my Tiger into a bonneville. the carbs are for aesthetics not practicality which is why I'm sticking with the single Amal (90?) for now. speedrattle gave me one of the answers I asked. and all of you that gave us an education on; proper cleaning & adjustment,the only parts to use & proper float settings,jet sizes Thank You All, that will become my Amal carb bible and the info will not be wasted on me. And thanks to all that chimed in and gave there honest opinion on ignitions, tips on tickling the carb & kick starting pointers is much appreciated also.hope I didn't leave anyone out if I did you may be forgotten for now but still much appreciated:smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,978 Posts
Hi Tiger78, DO NOT take the idle passage plug out. Trust me you'll be able to clean it with plug in.

The sonic clean can be a crap shoot for the idle passage if... water/cleaner fluid does not fully fill passage it won't clean. So make certain, you submerge carb & force water into idle passage before turning on machine.

I stand by the white vinegar since it's never failed me yet. I recommend start with vinegar, then rinse & sonic clean being certain the passage is filled.

You understand what you're doing. So you'll see how you can test passage for being free to pass cleaner when you test it. Once you figure out how to block the passages you'll soon see how easy it is to test for free passage before assembly.

With vinegar & sonic very unlikely you'll fail in a complete removal of any debris in the passage. It's fun to see bits of crust fly out with compressed air.

Ok, now I get what you want to do. You want the visual look of splayed head with round air filters, wasp waist of the seat & tank where they come together. The most iconic part of the Bonneville.

I wonder if just buying a splayed carb T140V head is the best bet? T140E are parallel port heads, not splayed.
Don
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,612 Posts
DO NOT take the idle passage plug out. Trust me you'll be able to clean it with plug in.
In 1982 (so when the US DoD was still maintaining nothing like the internet existed ...), I bought a T160 that had the-then odd habit of idling on two cylinders when warm. I spoke with Les Williams (long-time Meriden employee, legendary triple guru and L.P. Williams founder), he opined one of the pilot jets was blocked and, if I got the carbs. to him, he'd clean 'em.

The carbs. were returned with not only the original idle passage plugs replaced with grub screws sealed with Hylomar but also the blind ends of the cross-passages (opposite the air screws and over/beside the pilot jets) similarly drilled and sealed. Les advised they were standard modifications to all Concentrics used on racing triples, so it was subsequently only a few minutes work for either a Mk.1 eyeball to verify that both pilot jet and passage from floatbowl to pilot jet were clear, or to clean them 'til they were; i.e. a race mechanic never worried "if... water/cleaner fluid does not fully fill passage" ...

Bear in mind the idle passage was only plugged the standard way because the Concentric was intended to be cheaper to make than the Monobloc, at the insistence of the British motorcycle makers, and a pressed-in plug was a few pennies cheaper than tapping the end of the passage and fitting a screw ... These old heaps were littered with similar cheap shortcuts when new, dunno about anyone else but I've always tried to do better ...

Aside, while it isn't so relevant to old Concentrics, because I've always similarly-modified new ones, it's somewhat distressing to know that both Burlen- and Grosvenor Works- (previous Amal licensee) made Concentrics can have swarf in the passage from float-bowl to pilot jet ... that would've caused endless tuning headaches for someone else ...

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
If the original question is still relevant, you can mount twin parallel Concentrics on a Tiger. I expect Mikunis would have to be splayed and the splayed adaptors for single carb heads look a bit silly.

Twin carbs give better mixture distribution and on my 650 at least, have a snappier response in midrange. Single carb is easier to set up for idle and very small throttle openings.

The cheap Wassell/Vape electronic ignition looks well made and works pretty good on my bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,364 Posts
The two Mikuni TM flatslides on my T140D with the parallel port head require about a 15 degree angle to clear each other..TSS intake rubbers are perfect for this...My thinking is sharp angles on intakes should be avoided if possible..
On the conversation above about removing the soft plugs from carb passages...What plugs are you talking about, the air horn or the large one in the roof of the float chamber?
 
21 - 40 of 116 Posts
Top