[Fenech]

The only difference between US and European models is the removable baffle in V&H after market pipes, and some strange undocumented difference in the cat (they have a different part number), none of which is related to a decat.
The US and non-US models all use the same tune. Everything you read about wide band sensors on US models is twaddle.

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I'm putting twaddle down in my black book for future use :smile2:

 

[chrisg81983]

What sort of impact do you reckon fitting straight through headers would have? (compared to meerkat's decat)

Yes there are more benefits and negatives than this, but here it is in a nutshell.

A system with a X pipe will have much more balanced exhaust streams. Both streams keep one another up to speed while this higher velocity will allow more spent exhaust to be pulled out of the cylinders. The X pipe will usually give more power in the upper RPM range.

Now an H pipe will give better low end power and sound more like American muscle car. The trouble with a H pipe is the 2 exhaust streams fight one another. This will actually slow down exhaust speed thus creating uneven exhaust streams.

Just having straight pipes will create a much more uneven exhaust steam. The exhaust streams have no influence on one another like the X or H. This sometimes leads to having more heat buildup as well. There will usually be more spent exhaust left behind due to the slower exhaust speeds.

 

[alexim]

Anyone think of doing something like this??? Single side, 2 into 1? I'll be doing this short low on both sides with the x pipe but ran into this and was thinking about it.

 

[chrisg81983]

Anyone think of doing something like this??? Single side, 2 into 1? I'll be doing this short low on both sides with the x pipe but ran into this and was thinking about it.

I am a huge fan of 2to1 systems as this is where max torque and horsepower will usually be achieved. ( as long as the system is designed properly )


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[jsobell]

Thank you for the explanation.

My uneducated guess was that a less complex system (a straight through pipe) would yield better results. Also, I'm keen on the weight savings as well as the aesthetics of the titanium headers.
But your point seems valid to me and I will hold off till we see some concrete results.

The thing to beware of is that removing complexity doesn't necessarily improve performance. The cat is positioned a specific distance from the head for good reason. It acts as an expansion chamber, and acts to ensure a vacuum is generated at exactly the right time for exhaust scavenging, where a negative pressure pulse travels back up the header to arrive at exactly the right time at the head and help suck out the exhaust gasses.
Balance pipes have a similar effect so their location, length and volume is also critical, so just "removing all this [email protected]" doesn't make things magically work better, because they weren't added to cripple the performance; they were added to improve it. Sure, it might be partly emissions related, but performance is a huge factor.

Likewise with the decat modules. Replacing the cat with an expansion chamber that retains the appropriate back-pressure while removing the turbulence and maintaining gas velocity seems to be the key (which I believe is why the larger pipe was used on the Meerkat), and I reckon this is why so many people who stripped the guts from their cats had issues; they created a huge empty void, with no smooth airflow, which is far more turbulent than the cat itself, because at least the cat had channels to direct the gas!

Straight titanium pipes with no expansion points, and one dodgy balance pipe at a seemingly random distance from the head? I'm not overly optimistic, but feel free to be the guinea-pig and let us know

Aesthetics I can understand, as titanium can look nice, but weight saving? If the current system is about 6Kg, you'll save 2Kg. As my mate (who was an IoM TT racer) said "If I want to drop a few kilos, I take a good dump before I go out on the track!"

 

[alexim]

I am a huge fan of 2to1 systems as this is where max torque and horsepower will usually be achieved. ( as long as the system is designed properly )


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Yea.. This one looks quite well designed and as far as I can see this is the boneville 1200 engine so it should work on the thruxton. The difficult part is the header from the cylinder passing close in between the engine and radiator.

 

[miglan20]

Yea.. This one looks quite well designed and as far as I can see this is the boneville 1200 engine so it should work on the thruxton. The difficult part is the header from the cylinder passing close in between the engine and radiator.

Termi has made one for the 900 Street Twin/Cup, hopefully they will develop one for the Thruxton. I definitely plan on getting this as I also prefer 2-1. Anyway, awesome thread, thanks for the research Jsobell.

 

[Timinoz]

Cheers J. I suspected as much with mine but have been too busy to get back to the dyno to confirm. After I fitted the Meercat I did the 12 minute tune & the bike runs great. No issues.

 

[beemerrich]

The cat is positioned a specific distance from the head for good reason. It acts as an expansion chamber, and acts to ensure a vacuum is generated at exactly the right time for exhaust scavenging, where a negative pressure pulse travels back up the header to arrive at exactly the right time at the head and help suck out the exhaust gasses.

And here I thought the reason that the distance selected from the head to cat was allow the cat to be hidden up under the motor...must be serendipity.

Regardless, I like the overall outcome of this body of work and it has effectively slayed the misconception that performance improvements on the L/C machines will be nearly impossible due to ECU inflexibility. Clearly a cost-effective upgrade that produces real results without compromise to machine longevity. Win-win on all accounts.

Cheers,

--Rich

 

[maritan]

The only difference between US and European models is the removable baffle in V&H after market pipes, and some strange undocumented difference in the cat (they have a different part number), none of which is related to a decat.
The US and non-US models all use the same tune. Everything you read about wide band sensors on US models is twaddle.

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The twaddle was that US models had narrowband sensors. ROW had wideband.

But thanks for confirming that the twaddle was all twaddle. :grin2:

 

[Adamantium]

I am seeing lots of these Mototrio x pipes heading out on my social media now to Canada and US. Maybe BC and FS has a little to learn about pricepoints? $85 for an x pipe, paired with under $500 for Cone shorties is a real good pricepoint for an exhaust system without ECU modifications.
You should almost be getting a cut of the profit for posting your dyno results.
BRAVO!

 

[TriRocket3]

Yea.. This one looks quite well designed and as far as I can see this is the boneville 1200 engine so it should work on the thruxton. The difficult part is the header from the cylinder passing close in between the engine and radiator.

Look again

 

[riceman59]

This was a great post, and thanks for taking the time to get the bike to the dyno and having this testing done. I have installed the X-pipe and Remus slip ons and I was alittle concerned with all the posts I had read about major issues about the bike was going to run lean with that setup. But now after seeing your results I feel reassured. I did plan on having the bike setup on the dyno before I rode with the set up but now. Thanks to you I will ride alittle before I do go to the dyno.

Dave

 

[looseparts]

... As my mate (who was an IoM TT racer) said "If I want to drop a few kilos, I take a good dump before I go out on the track!"

Edit:It took a few minutes but finally read all the posts back to the beginning and WOW! Thank you @jsobell for all the effort you went into for this gift - hats off.

I greatly admire the knowledgeable detail in all these posts and the humor is a plus. That said... if you mate loses a 'few kilos' after taking a dump, he needs to go to the hospital, not the track ; -)

 

[Mackk]

Well they're measuring the size of the clamp points rather than the body of the pipe, but you can see it's a straight path so they are obviously using 1.5" pipe for the bends.

What's really weird is the British Customs version of the cross-pipe, where they don't even bother with the V-clamp! They have some weird thing where you clamp a straight piece of pipe with a T-clamp. I don't know how you are supposed to get a proper seal with this setup, and it's also 1.5" throughout.

Until I see someone testing the system with the thinner pipes personally I'm recommending the Meerkat. It's cheaper than all but the Moto-Trio, and is the only 1.7" model.

Good eye @jsobell after reading this AWSOME thread I went to my local dealer and showed the guys the results....they we're obviously impressed....I mentioned the different versions of the x pipe on the market and was wondering if one was better than another.....the techs told me the B/C version which they stock, and had installed on a couple bikes was not the greatest fitment wise and getting it to seal required some extra effort.

My mind is made.....meerkat de-cat. I've sent Peter a FB message requesting one in brushed.

Thanks again for your and @Fenech efforts

 

[Adamantium]

just for fun

 

[Adamantium]

$230, $85, $220

 

[Adamantium]

I was curious if some sort of cool down + reset adaptation was needed for the ECU to make adjustments. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

 

[Adamantium]

1 more for S+G
much more expensive

 

[Jdmorgan55]

$230, $85, $220

Where do you get the $220 price? Are we talking about dollars or something else? When I go to Meerkat website I see $300 plus $40 shopping and that's why I'm leaning toward Moto Trio