This alternative Speedo Sender could be employed by those who have a broken speedo magnet
Triumph won't provide the magnet - which is frequently broken after re-assembly of front wheel after service, tire-change etc - as a separate line-item and you have no option but to purchase a complete speed sender assembly - not cheap!
Now - instead of paying $175 for a new Triumph sender, execute this mod for ~ $25!
The best part is it will never break again!
Also, for anyone who would like to use the late model (05+) wheels on their early models,
And this will also work for those doing fork/wheel swaps for example, where no provision for the OEM speedo drive exists on the replacement wheel.
Note: easier for Sprint - all years use 25mm axle;
02-04 S3 & 02-06 Daytona use 20mm axle so more involved for wheel swap
you have been previously prohibited since the new model has no speedo drive detent in the wheel.
Well, I have the solution for you!
I used a very similar solution on my GSXR fork retrofit to my Mrs SV650 and felt pretty sure that the same method could be employed on the Triumph.
The simple fact is that the sender is nothing more than a Hall-Effect sensor - a magnet creates a field induced current as it sweeps past a detector.
Most bike share a common process but the mechanics of the device and where it is located varies.
Now on the 99-04 series of Sprints (or similar era Speed Triple, Daytona, TT600 etc), you have an electronic speedo that receives its input from the ECM which in turn receives a signal which is generated by a front wheel sender.
On the 05+, the principle is the same although the sender is based on the output shaft and of course the ratio of pulses generated is quite different. The output signal to the instument is CANBUS and quite, quite different, but all we need to concern ourself with is the input to the ECM.
So how to create a signal on an early bike using late model wheels that has neither a device from the transmission or the wheel?
The simplest method is to replicate the action of the wheel driven sender if possible - by using a frequency based on the same rotation diameter (i.e. the wheel!) no additional calibration should be required.
Back to the SV for a moment - we'll use this method as a basis for the swap. The SV happens to use a very similar wheel/axle based sender on the front wheel as the 99-04 Sprints.
When upgrading to GSXR front end, those wheels pose similar problems in that the donor bikes utilize a final output drive sender.
I was able to take a GSXR sender - there are after-market Hall Effect Trigger available, but GSXR sensors are plentiful & cheap off EBay (less than $20) .
I mounted this to a simple bracket using the inside of the fender stanchions and it is triggered off magnets simply epoxied on the rotor.
It works perfectly on the SV!
So - would that work on the Triumph?
Since I had all the bits at my disposal I thought I'd check this out - it's actually been on my agenda to validate this for some time anyway.
I actually have on-hand an old GSXR harness which not only donated the plug that obviously fit the GSXR sender, but also conveniently gave up another which fit the Daytona harness speedo input!
So I made a simple extender cable with each of those connectors on either end.
Then I took the speedo sender off my TL (TL/Hayabusa/GSXR/SV1K all have used the same sender for about last 10 years!) and plugged it in the extender, then the extender into the Daytona harness.
Turned on the Triumph ignition, and per the previously suggested test, just took a magnet and osciallated it back & forth across the sensor face, while monitoring the instrument display.
Bingo! Good reading on the speedo commensurate with the rate at which I was moving the magnet.
So this validates that the process works!
There are 4 magnets used for the Triumphs.
Here's how it came together on the SV - you would use similar for the Triumphs.
This is the GSXR/TL/Hayabusa/SV1K sensor
(common to all from about 99 - current):
This is the sender mounted on a simple bracket on my SV
- the bracket is mounted to the fender stanchions with modified (very short) screws so that they dont interfere with the actual fender mount screws on the outside of same stanchions:
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The mounting of the sender will clearly be a little different on the Sprint forks or early Speed Triple/Daytona forks, but should not be very challenging.
The important thing to know is that it will work electronically
Magnets mounted on the rotor are the triggers.
They just need to be positioned on a radius that sweeps past the sensor location. This is the source I used for the rare-earth magnets
They are also available on EBay if you do a search
Here is a convenient mounting location in the rotor buttons!
Important Note: You should only use the rotor buttons as a mounting location if you have an equal multiple of 4 and thus can space the magnets at exactly 90 deg intervals.
Spacing the magnets non-symmetrically will result in speedo error.
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. Here is wiring relationship between the OEM Triumph sender & the Suzuki one
Power .... Black/Yellow.................. Red/Orange ......................... Black/Red . Ground.... Black ............................ Black/White ......................... Black/White Signal ..... White/Blue ...................Pink ...................................... Black
You can use crimps if you're not comfortable soldering - but because the GSXR cable is really short, it will give you bulky cable just up from the sensor.
Best if you can solder and use heat-shrink sleeve over each individual splice, then another heatshrink over whole joint section.
When you splice the sensor cables together you can ignore the first block above (Daytona harness)
From the GSXR sender to the donor Triumph sender cable:
Connect Black/Red to Red/Orange
Connect Black/white to Black/White
Connect Black to Pink
Figure out how you're going to mount sensor first - once you have optimum position for that then the magnets will take care of themselves.
You can make this on either side of course, doesn't matter which leg/rotor you set it up on.
One thing to note is that the magnets MUST be applied with poles in same direction.
Easiest way to do this is to stack them then mark the top of each one with a marker as you peel it off the stack.
Then assemble with the dots all facing out.
If you can get rare-earth (Neodymium) magnets so much the better - they are small and have really strong field, so should be detected over quite a gap - on my SV set-up they are 1/4" and maybe 5mm away from sensor - with the rare-earth I'm sure they would trigger from further away.
You can actually use any kind of Hall Effect sensor - here is another option -> Cherry GS100701
Your the brains here mate, I am going to try this on my 06 Daytona, (see pm) will the distance from the hub make a huge difference, I am going to mount the magnets on the dics rotor near as possible to the spindle, can I simply remove the Suzuki plug and fit bullet conectors to hook it into the triumph harness?
Thanks for the info, as posted elsewhere the magnet is in four pieces, pulled the wheel this morning, funny how it can do that while in position, the wheels not been out since a new tyre last october time, looks like it got trapped somehow as the breaks are to the rear edge of the lugs? will do the job this coming weekend as I will have to locate a magnet supplier and also waiting for the sender to arrive, will post piccies of the whole job and such, am looking at mounting the whole thing on the rhs as that will be a direct route for the cable, will be soldering the joins, and mounting the magnets on the disc roter I think.
These are intended as kitchen cabinet door latch devices. They work well for this application because you can fasten the retainer cup (whether by nut & bolt or by epoxy); then just press in the magnet.
Again, these are tiny, but have amazing field strength. Neodymium is what you're looking for.
I fastened mine with quick setting (90 sec) epoxy - it's not like there's any load on them other than centrifugal force. If you have to remove them, you can still snap off with pair of pliers.
Ordered some from a craft site on ebay £2.98 for twenty 10mm magnets delivered, whole job will cost £12 and some time, have the metal and the bracket will also attach to the fender bolts, they extend through plastic clamps on the daytona so will fit the bracket with nuts on the inside,light ally right angle bar will extend about five inches from the mount down the forkleg to the hub for the sender then epoxy the magnets onto the disc roter, the wiring will be as the diagramme, looking at about two hours work then some time playing around to find out how many magnets it will need going for two first then ride out with the misses on her varadero to check calibration.
... then some time playing around to find out how many magnets it will need going for two first then ride out with the misses on her varadero to check calibration.
You shouldn't need a calibration factor - it's going to be pretty obviously on-speed, or maybe 2x - I really don't think 1/2 speed.
The speedo will calibrate exactly as it was before, since rolling circumference is same and can only vary by the multiple difference of # of poles rotating past the OEM sensor.
Were those neodymium magnets you got? Or regular ferrous type?
10mm sounds 'big' so I'm thinking the latter.
The EBay ones I linked would definitely work well.
You shouldn't need a calibration factor - it's going to be pretty obviously on-speed, or maybe 2x - I really don't think 1/2 speed.
The speedo will calibrate exactly as it was before, since rolling circumference is same and can only vary by the multiple difference of # of poles rotating past the OEM sensor.
Were those neodymium magnets you got? Or regular ferrous type?
10mm sounds 'big' so I'm thinking the latter.
The EBay ones I linked would definitely work well.
So do I go or one or two magnets on the roter to start, I think now i should start with one? Magnets are rare earth as you reccomended, 20 for £2.98 delivered, with 10mm diameter, good thing is I can "stack" them for correct clearance as well and epoxy them in place, will post results and pics next weekend if the stuff arrives in the post this week which I am assured they will, here's hoping.
Quick tip before you actually install the hardware
Once you complete the wiring integration, plug it in, turn on ignition and holding sensor in one hand, oscillate a magnet past the sensor face with your other - you should see the speedo indication and vary with the frequency that you move the magnet. That will validate for you that your sensor is actually wired up correctly & functional (just save scratching head later if you find you're not reading anything)
This essentially replicates the test that I did on my own bike (the Triumph I mean)
Once you validate that, then you know your system will work and just a case of mechanical installation.
Then, after you install, before you take it out, just spin wheel and see that you have reading on the gauge - this will again validate for you that the magnet proximity appears to be close enough to trigger detector.
I was looking for a good front fork/wheel pic of a gen2 S3 or Daytona:
It looks like a good mounting point for the sender would be from the lower fender mount - then the magnets could go on/in the rotor buttons (this is a common mounting location for the magnets with the SV guys)
With the sender just below the fender mount, it would be fairly unobtrusive and I think work quite well there.
ITS ALIVE ITS ALIVE, works as described, I mounted the bracket on the fender mounting bolts as I said, the sensor lines up with the buttons and I started with two poles result, exactly half MPH, four poles bang on the money, very tight for space though as there is only 4mm between buttons and fork stantion, used 3x10x1mm magnets on four opposing buttons, they wont go 12, 6, 3, 9, but close and it seems fine, tested against my wifes varadero through all speeds up to 100MPH. Pictures will follow when wife sorts them and sends them to my album. total cost £7 for second hand sensor on EBAY and £2.98 for 20 10x1mm magnets from same source.
Possible but they are so small that a stack of three works and still blends in well, will sort out the routing of the wire a bit better at some point but very happy with the result, especially the cost, problems whilst doing the job were, as warned polarity is crucial as I found out when after finding two poles read half, so stuck on two more the wrong way and still read half, DOHH, sensor height in regard to magnets is pretty important, slot your mounting holes to give some up and down adjustment mine would not read the magnets untill directly in line for height, also hence three on each pole, apart from that quite straight forward have not soldered the wires either tinned the bare triumph wires and plugged them in as did not want to butcher the suzuki harness untill I was happy the job worked, first pic, bits needed, second lining bracket to get hieght, third, close front view, two nuts hold it on the inside of the fender mounting bolts, four, front veiw of set up with sensor and magnet fitted, five this is what it looks like from the normal viewpoint.
Re painted bracket today and tried putting the sensor in the vertical, no speedo, seems it is really distance critical and the act of putting it vertical moves it too far from the poles! re routed the cable to the inside of the forks and round to the standard clips, all good, while the wheel was out cleaned the calipers/pistons and fitted new brake pads, oh and cleaned the blooby thing
nice, I like a schmuck payed my monies to bike bandit to replace my dead spedo sensor last year, I may have some really small hall effect sensors lying around, (1/4" by 1" reads from face with a threaded body. 3 wires ) they seem to like 5 volts, may work real well for the application, as I recall they would pick up anything ferrous within a few millimeters may not have the resolution at speed though..came from some scraped medical supply manufacturing equipment, quite nasty caustic environment I suspect. I'll have to look for them.
You can either just leave it in place (remove the rotating magnet - or what's left of it - and the drive ring from behind the grease seal) or have a spacer bush machined to replace it.
Former is probably just fine but if you have access to lathe then simple spacer to make.
Changed my tires last week and today the speedo was acting a fool. I removed the front tire and sure enough the magnet is two pieces! I would like to attempt this mod. My question DEcosse is, how many magnets do you think I would need for my TT600. Also, after visiting the link you provided, which magnet would you suggest, (A,B,C,D or E?) thanks.
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will the distance from the hub make a huge difference, I am going to mount the magnets on the dics rotor near as possible to the spindle, can I simply remove the Suzuki plug and fit bullet conectors to hook it into the triumph harness?
