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I just can't get my head around these 'guns are dangerous so everybody should have a gun' arguments.

An application for a permit to own a gun only needs one question:

Do you wish to own a gun?

A response of 'yes' should mean the applicant is automatically denied a permit as not mentally fit to have one.

I don't want anybody with a gun living in the same country as me.
 

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Britain records 18% fall in gun deaths

The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

The Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King's College London said its research also suggested the number of gun-related deaths was falling since reaching a peak eight years ago.

The centre's director, Richard Garside, said: "Gun homicide in England and Wales is low compared with such countries as the United States, Australia, France and Italy."



Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02

Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006) The Global Gun Epidemic. Praeger Security International. Westport.
 

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The only time I might be interested in having a gun is if I wounded but not killed a deer.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
According to the video, one demonstrator says that gun crimes are up 40% since the ban six years ago. Is this true?

Over here in the states, about a third of the riders I know are packing a gun on their rides.
 

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You can do what you like with statistics, usually to suit a political agenda. I think the 40% figure was a tabloid 'news'paper headline from 2001.

Times Online 25th August 2007

The latest figures show that there was a 13 per cent fall in firearms offences, excluding air weapons, from 11,084 in 2005-06 to 9,608 in 2006-07.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That's true about statistics. In College debates, I could always find a statistic to support my point no matter what I was debating.
 

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Home Office figures out today

Robberies at knife point [between July and September 2008] have risen by almost a fifth, according to official figures for England and Wales.

Recorded firearms offences fell by 29% between July and September 2008.


So it seems to me that banning guns has at least had a significant effect in reducing gun crime. I don't understand how or why anybody could argue that they should be allowed to own a gun.

Well, apart from these two anyway:

Pair planned to supply underworld with guns

 

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I wouldnt be surprised that a murkin soldier would be safer in iraq than in murka given the number of gun related injuries they have.

We english believe that allowing the police to stay 'stop' in a really loud an effecive voice is a good crime deterrant. If this fails, they can always resort to hitting the miscreant with a stick.
 

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I just can't get my head around these 'guns are dangerous so everybody should have a gun' arguments.

An application for a permit to own a gun only needs one question:

Do you wish to own a gun?

A response of 'yes' should mean the applicant is automatically denied a permit as not mentally fit to have one.

I don't want anybody with a gun living in the same country as me.
Well said.

I live not far from the recent Post Office shooting in Fairfield, Worcestershire, in which the Post Master was wounded and his son was shot dead.

I think the right to live peacefully without fear in a civilized society ranks far higher than the right to own a gun.

Here in the UK there are two groups of people who own guns. Farmers/Game keepers/Pest control and complete ****ing nutters!
 

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Guns aren't the problem. I've used firearms since being a small boy until the government made it too difficult to own them. I never had any impulse to go out and shoot someone, even with the short sighted views held by some here. It's the person that pulls the trigger that's at fault, same as the guy with a knife or the joy rider. Perhaps when motorcycles are banned on safety grounds or some nutter on a Daytona slams into a load of kids you may see the point. We need to see respect for the individual return in the UK, then we can walk the streets safe from thugs armed or otherwise.
 

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If someone wanted to kill me, i would rather he did'nt have a gun. That would make it too easy for him and if he was serious enough about killing, surely he would'nt need a gun. If i had to defend myself, i'd rather not shoot an unarmed man but give him a slower more painful death..
only kidding i'm a lover not a fighter....hmm
 

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I'm not too hung up about guns in general. The debate seems to generate as much heat as light but just a thought.....

I can see that hunting rifles & shotguns are good for sport & game shooting etc but pistols & handguns are designed to do one thing only - kill people - and therefore it seems logical that they should be the preserve of those that enforce the law and defend the nation. However if everyone has a weapon as in some countries eg Switzerland where I understand all males of military age are in the militia & keep their weapons at home, then the picture may change. However I'm not aware that the murder rate per 1k is out of the ordinary there either.:confused:

It's not the number of weapons in circulation that counts so much as the attitiude of the society that has them in abundance. Fear and mistrust of the potential behaviour of your fellow citizens must have a lot to do with it, perhaps we need to be a bit more civilised than we are at the moment.....?:(

As most of us do, I live in a country with a reasonably effective police force (most of which isn't armed as a matter of course) so I haven't felt the need for a weapon - if I lived in Zimbabwe, Somalia or Sudan it might be different - but luckily I don't.

If the answer is about changing attitudes then it's a long & difficult path - is the will there to do it or are there too many vested interests in keeping people 'tooled up' & suspicious of each other?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And that's supposed to be something to be proud of :confused:
If I packed a gun, I don't know if I would be proud so I can't answer that.

On a more positive note, what are the motorcycle license requirements or horsepower restrictions in Britian?
In the states, you just need to pass a quick riding and written test and you can get whatever you want. No experience necessary.
 

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On a more positive note, what are the motorcycle license requirements or horsepower restrictions in Britian?
In the states, you just need to pass a quick riding and written test and you can get whatever you want. No experience necessary.
See here.
 

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Here in the UK there are two groups of people who own guns. Farmers/Game keepers/Pest control and complete ****ing nutters!
Couldn`t agreee more. Unfortunately, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE LAST GROUP. You see, After 35 years living in the UK, I learned that making guns illegal has about the same effect as making pot illegal, or parking on double yellow lines illegal.

I used to drink in a well known pub called (appropriately) 'The Robin Hood' in Dagenham. Amongst all the stolen Levis, addidas trainers and other rubbish you could buy there, guns were usually on sale. I have seen it all mate, offered out in the car park, from the back of old white Transits. Everything from ex Desert Storm Royal Marines, selling AK 47`s to Russian immigrants selling Nagant revolvers for ten quid (yes, 10 quid) complete with 50 rounds of ammo.

Making guns ilegal is like making anything else illegal, speeding, parking, riding with no licence etc. It`s just one more law created that your police will fail miserably to inforce, one less choice for you to make, another ball and chain for the law abiding citizen and something very funny for villains to laugh at.

Hey, last I heard, bike theft was illegal in the UK, why not stop chaining your bike up and leave the keys in the ignition? The law will fix everything and get rid of all the naughty boys that might steal your bike. Do you get it yet?

Mate, just do me a favour, take a step back and have a think about this before you reply. Gun control is just putting the whole situtation into the hands of those that choose to ignore the law. You will not save any lives, you may cost some though.

I think the big problem with the anti gun lobby is that they feel we are trying to make guns COMPULSORY for everyone and we want to see everyone walking down the street with them in Holsters like the gunfight at the OK Corral. THAT`S NOT THE CASE. If you don`t want a gun, don`t buy one. Huge numbers of citizens in the USA and Australia, choose not to own one. RESPECT, to them. But more importantly, thank god, they can choose. You can`t.

If I was a politician in the UK who wanted to make name for myself and save lives, I would just ban motorcyles. Banning bikes would save more lives in 1 year than banning guns would in 30 years. Great thing about the UK is there are tons of IGNORANT non motorcyclists, who have never owned or felt the need to own a bike who will trot out throw away comments like, "Only idiots and Farmers need motorcycles."

I own several handguns and rifles. They are kept securely locked away in safes, in my home. I am a responsible shooter and there will be no accidents.

If I suffered a home invasion I honestly don`t know if I have the onions to use them. The answer is I probably would, if I thought my family was threatened. What I DO know, is that I will have a choice. That choice will not have been taken away from me by some politician or some member of the public who has little or no understanding of guns and has never suffered a home invasion.


I think I feel more strongly about this Gun issue because I am a motorcyclist. I am utterly fed up of non motorcyclists telling me what we are all doing wrong and why our fatality rate is so high etc etc. I`m fed up of losing my rights and watching the politicians and media manipulate all the figures to influence all the non motorcyclists. Europe? You can play 3 blind monkeys if you like, but the bikes will be going next, you lot surrender too easily.
 

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I know this is about the UK situation, but if you look at the stats from 2007 in the US, you can see that of the 10,066 homicides by firearms, only 57 were involving burglary. In contrast, 2,225 people were murdered with firearms in "other arguments".

Seems to me I'd rather take my chances being unarmed during a home invasion, than have more people with access to a handgun who might develop a reason to have an argument with me.

I've never had a home invasion. But I've been in arguments. Since I live in Canada, I've never actually seen a handgun which was in the possession of a private individual. The only time I've seen one was visiting my wife's cousin in Georgia. Luckily, we didn't argue.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_10.html
 

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Respect is the key.

Respect your vehicle, respect the road, respect the laws of physics, respect other road users and you may ride safely - if the cagers respect you.

I shoot - but also respect the firearm. I respect the rules of the firing range. I respect others on the firing range. No-one gets hurt.

The guns stay at the range, locked up safely.

Truth be told - I've probably put myself and others in more danger on my bike than while firing a gun.
 
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