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Discussion Starter #1
I made a bone head move, bought the Fork Seal Kit from Bike Bandit in early March. Finally arrived yesterday, and it didn't look exactly right so I double checked. Yep, the fork seal kit 2040173-T0301 is for Serial numbers 92894 and higher. My Legend has a serial number in the 70000's. AAAAARRRGGGH!

With the 20% restocking fee and return shipping, I'll be out $30 bucks. I've got 15 days before I have to get them back to Bike Bandit. Maybe I'll get them post up here on the Classifieds.

At least I didn't touch the bike yet and have the disassemble forks laying over the garage.

Does anyone know why the 92893 and under forks don't have a kit? I looked on Bike Bandit and on my Parts Micro Film CD. It's not there. You have to buy the parts separately.

Also, I noticed that for 923893 and under forks there is no lower bush shown or listed. Anyone know what that is about? Is the bush built into the tube itself?

By the way. I also noticed that there is no real description of the seal kit. So here's a list of what it comes with if it helps anyone.

Fork seal kit 2040173-T0301 for Legends with Serial numbers 92894 and higher.

Dust Seal 2040080-T0301
Snap Ring 2040079-T0301
Oil Seal 2040078-T0301
Washer, Oil Seal 2040077-T0301
Slide Bush (Top) 2040076-T0301
Bearing, Tube Assy (Lower) 2040172-T0301
 

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I went looking to see if my VIN was in range, but it's not. However, when I searched the part number on BikeBandit, it came up with a "Fits machines" link under add to cart. It lists a lot of different bikes, older and newer. Maybe the kit just comes with some extra parts that you don't need. Maybe someone else that knows can chime in, or you could just go for it and let me know how it comes out...I need to do this too :p

-Jared
 

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As long as it has the correct dimensions, they should be fine. I have one 9.5 mm and one 10.5 mm tall seal in my fork legs, and they both fit and work as intended.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
As long as it has the correct dimensions, they should be fine. I have one 9.5 mm and one 10.5 mm tall seal in my fork legs, and they both fit and work as intended.
faff - good point. I looked on Bike Bandit's web site and they do list the dimension for the oil seal.

The 92893 and under are 43mm inner, 54mm outer, and 11mm tall.

The 92894 and over are 43mm inner, 55mm outer, and 9.5mm tall.

Note, when I measure the height of the seals I have it is 9.5mm on the inside where the seal makes contact with the fork tube. But on the outer diameter it is 11mm tall. The dust seal also measures 55mm outer diameter on the kit I have.

So the question is will the newer 55mm dimension fit in the older 54mm hole? My guess is no becuase the seal feels pretty firm, doesn't seem like there is room for it to compress. It seems as if there is steel imbedded in the outer rim of this thing.

The other question is the bush. The inner diameter is 43mm which should fit the tube since both are 43mm, my concern would be the outer diameter of the bush and if it would fit inot the slider.

Does anyone know if it will work?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've decided to try to use the kit I have. According to Bike Bandit this kit will fit a huge list of Triumph between the early 1990's and 2003. Including T-birds and Adventures made before my bike. I find it hard to believe that a company that would use the same engine and frame on a Tiger, Sprint and T-Bird would have fork sliders on a Legend for the first few months of production that were very much different from the fork sliders already used on T-Birds and Adventurers already in production.

It would make more sense that my fork sliders are similar specs to that huge list of other models. So, it's worth a try. And it it doesn't fit, I get the other set of parts.

I will post results.
 

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I bought new seals many years ago from the dealer just in case I needed them and they didn't ask me what my serial # was. Have only needed to replace one and it fit fine but I hope the other one doesn't wear out as it wasn't an easy job.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
And the Verdict is . . . .

. . . fork seal kit 2040173-T0301 does not fit my Legend. So this kit is indeed for Serial numbers 92894 and higher.

The only part that would work is the retaining clip. Compared the the old parts the newer parts from the kit were . . .

Lower bush was too tall.
Upper bush was too short.
Seal washer was too wide.
Oil seal was too wide.
Dust cap was too wide.

I did get the fork back together with the old parts. Will have to get the right parts and try again.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Basic Information on Fork maintenance

Here are some tips I wish I knew going in.

1. The Haynes is good to have.

2. Stock up on supplies, Solvent (WD-40), rags (lots) and axle grease.

3. It took 600 ml to fill one fork up to the 126mm height/depth speced by haynes.

4. When you get the wheel and fender off, clean the entire fork while it is on the bike with WD-40 or some cleaner. This avoid brining a lot of dirt and grimme to your work location which is best to be as clean as possible.

5. If you have my kind of forks (read thread above) the 30mm special tool will not work. I made a special tool from PVC and an electrical conduit coupling. It was cheap but spent a long time looking all over Home Depot to find somehting 30mm. On my forks the dampening rod has a completely round recess, it is not hexagonal at all. But I was able to loosen and tighten the dampening rod with no problem did not even need the spring pressure.

6. Buy or rent a torque wrench. I think AutoZone will lend you one.

7. Obtain a metric hex key set to fit the drive of your torque wrench. Get teh longer variety so you can access the dampening rod bolt at the bottom of the fork sliders.

8. The top nut of the forks apprears to be 24mm as best as I can measure. I tried using an large adjustable wrench that I already owned on this nut. Big mistake, now it looks like a rhinoceros chewed on it. Had to run to Ace Hardware up the street. The had no larger metric tools. Had to buy a 12 inch long 15/16 combo wrench, which fits nearly perfect.

9. You will need a 12mm hex wrench for the front axle. I luckily had ordered the OEM wrench that fits the OEM spark plug tool. This wrench comes in the tool kit, but if you don't have a tool kit you will need to buy this.

10. Take the warning that Haynes provides to place downward pressure on the for top nut as you loosen it. I THOUGHT I was placing downward pressure, but I was suprised. It's dangerous and makes a big mess. Normally, a recipe for fun, but not here.

11. Technique for putting the top nut back on. At a certain point Haynes tells you to place the fork slider in a clamp to fill with oil. Then extend the tube, slide in the spring and other parts, and then screw on the top cap, presumable still with the fork slider in a bench clamp. Unless you are the Incredible Hulk, or play him on TV, this will not work. Your hands will be above your head. Place the fork on the floor standing straight up, slider at the bottom (obviously?). With your non-dominant hand hold the fork tube. With the palm of you dominant hand push down on the top nut. Use your body weight by centering your sholder over your hand and lean in. When the top nut is seated beging turning the fork tube with you non-dominant hand. Your dominant hand is not moving just holding down the nut. The threads will catch, get in a few revolutions like this and then you can finish up with a wrench.

12. Handy tool. The Haynes makes reference to a "drift" to assist seating the top bush and the oil seal. I made one out of a $2.50 exhaust system adapter from AutoZone. It's 2 1/4 inch on one end and 1 7/8 on the other. I spent a few minutes with a piece of 220 and 400 grit sand paper to smooth out the inside and edges. I coated it with fresh fork oil for additional protection for the tubes. Worked good.

13. How long does this take? I started about 9:00 AM and finished about 2:00 PM and only got ONE fork done. This included a lot of wasted time on "rookie mistakes". Now that I have the tools, and some more knowledge/skill, I think the job for both forks can be done in 2-3 hours.
 

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Use what you got.

12. Handy tool. The Haynes makes reference to a "drift" to assist seating the top bush and the oil seal. I made one out of a $2.50 exhaust system adapter from AutoZone. It's 2 1/4 inch on one end and 1 7/8 on the other. I spent a few minutes with a piece of 220 and 400 grit sand paper to smooth out the inside and edges. I coated it with fresh fork oil for additional protection for the tubes. Worked good.
I used the headlight mounting tubes with a block of wood on top to tap the hammer against. If everything is clean, oiled, and alined, the bearing will go in with little force. This was my technique and not recommending it.:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The 92893 and under are Showa . . .

as best as I can determine.

Here is some other information I've been able to find.

The upper bush, which fits in the top of the slider just under the oil seal, dimensions are (in mm) 43x15x2. I got this from direct measurement of my part.

The lower bush, which fit on the bottom of the fork tube, dimensions are 43x15x1. I got this from Sprint manufacturing web site.

According to Sprint Manufacturing website, the Showa forks have the retaining spring around the dust cap. Mine has this spring.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
New seals in, still need bushes

OK, I bought Leak Proof Pro-Moly seals. I've read a lot of reviews stating that these are not as good as OEM. But I also read an equal amount of reviews stating that Leak Proof Seals worked for people in cases where OEM seals did not.

I put the new seals and dust caps in the forks over the weekend. Including setting up and tearing down my work area it was a 3 hour job. Of course I did have that practice session on the wrong seals.

So far the Leak Proof Seals are wipping the fork tubes bone dry. Which is better than the worn out seals which gave out oil in a constant stream. Not sure how long they will hold out, but it was about $36 for both seals and dust caps, half the cost of OEM.

The bushes looked slightly worn, but I was unable to find replacments for the lower. Not supplied by OEM and none of the aftermarket suppliers list a Legend as a model. I finally figured out that Race Tech can supply a lower bush FMBI43151P, which is listed as a 1999 and above Sprint ST. Sprint Manufacturing list the part specifically for a Legend. I contacted them for details, but no response.

I'll order the bushes and have them on hand in case the Leak Proofs crap-out on me.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Leak Proof Pro-Moly seals - Update

Did about 300 miles this weekend total. The Leak Proof seals are doing their job so far, no leaks.
 

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Further information concerning Legend Oil and dust seals--which applies to Adventurer and thunderbird families

I had similar problems to Tommy P and spent three weeks ordering various oil and dust seals, only to find that none of them would fit. It was only after doing extensive digging through various parts lists that the bigger picture evolved.

The forks on early legends are listed as a different part to late legends.
The forks on the thunderbird family change during its life cycle. The early forks are the same as the later forks with a different fork used at the time the legend was initially sold.
The forks on the Adventurer changed just before the legend was sold.

Further digging revealed a change in the fork slider bushes that matched the change in forks. The nice thing about finding out about the forks slider bushes was that it revealed the manufacturer of the corresponding forks. These turned out to be Kayaba and Showa.

The changes in fork occur as follows.. Using VIN for reference.

Adventurer VIN up to 43509 Kayaba forks
VIN after 43510 Showa forks

Thunderbird VIN up to 43509 Kayaba forks
VIN between 43510 and 92893 Showa forks
VIN after 92894 Kayaba forks

Legend VIN up to 92893 Showa forks
VIN after 92894 Kayaba forks

From the above you can see two changes in the fork supplier. E.g. The forks started out as Kayaba, changed to Showa and then reverted back to Kayaba.

What this means to us, the person who owns one of these bikes is their is NOT a standard fork oil seal/ dust seal or fork slider bush. Their are in fact two differing sets. It is important to know which fork is on the bike, because the oil/dust and bushes are NOT common to both types of fork. The vast majority have Kayaba forks and most suppliers will supply for the Kayaba forks as default.

The external differences between these two makes of fork are very slight. And if at any stage the original dust seals have been changed then this slight difference will not help. The dust seal on the showa forks has an external spring which is visible before dismantling.

Internally the forks are very different. Kayaba forks have a Hex seating to the damper rod to aid dissasembly, which is not present on Showa forks. Also the damper rod seat on Showa forks is in one piece. Kayaba forks use a two piece damper rod seat.
The fork slider bush also have different dimension depending on the fork manufacturer. being 19.85mm on Kayaba and 14.85mm on Showa.

In short the difficulties expressed by Tommy P are simply he has Showa forks and was trying to fit Kayaba fork seals. I had the same problem and that is why I dug up the above information.

In the end after being repeatedly supplied with the wrong seals I ordered the correct Showa seals from Triumph. And when they arrived they matched exactly the seals I had removed, and they fitted easily. KAYABA seals will not fit in Showa forks, and contrary to some of the advice given can not be made to fit.
 

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Looks a good summary :)

Tho' I think you mean 'VIN' number, not engine number? (According to my fiche)

Main difference is 54mm vs 55mm outside diameter on the seals, fecked if I can remember which is which, but Trev at Sprint Manufacturing has it permanently imprinted on his brain, fortunately!
 

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Further information concerning Legend Oil and dust seals--which applies to Adventurer and thunderbird families

I had similar problems to Tommy P and spent three weeks ordering various oil and dust seals, only to find that none of them would fit. It was only after doing extensive digging through various parts lists that the bigger picture evolved.

The forks on early legends are listed as a different part to late legends.
The forks on the thunderbird family change during its life cycle. The early forks are the same as the later forks with a different fork used at the time the legend was initially sold.
The forks on the Adventurer changed just before the legend was sold.

Further digging revealed a change in the fork slider bushes that matched the change in forks. The nice thing about finding out about the forks slider bushes was that it revealed the manufacturer of the corresponding forks. These turned out to be Kayaba and Showa.

The changes in fork occur as follows.. Using engine numbers for reference.

Adventurer engine numbers up to 43509 Kayaba forks
engine number after 43510 Showa forks

Thunderbird engine number up to 43509 Kayaba forks
engine number between 43510 and 92893 Showa forks
engine number after 92894 Kayaba forks

Legend engine number up to 92893 Showa forks
engine number after 92894 Kayaba forks

From the above you can see two changes in the fork supplier. E.g. The forks started out as Kayaba, changed to Showa and then reverted back to Kayaba.

What this means to us, the person who owns one of these bikes is their is NOT a standard fork oil seal/ dust seal or fork slider bush. Their are in fact two differing sets. It is important to know which fork is on the bike, because the oil/dust and bushes are NOT commen to both types of fork. The vast majority have Kayaba forks and most suppliers will supply for the Kayaba forks as default.

The external differences between these two makes of fork are very slight. And if at any stage the original dust seals have been changed then this slight difference will not help. The dust seal on the showa forks has an external spring which is visible before dismantling.

Internally the forks are very different. Kayaba forks have a Hex seating to the damper rod to aid dissasembly, which is not present on Showa forks. Also the damper rod seat on Showa forks is in one piece. Kayaba forks use a two piece damper rod seat.
The fork slider bush also have different dimension depending on the fork manufacturer. being 19.85mm on Kayaba and 14.85mm on Showa.

In short the difficulties expressed by Tommy P are simply he has Showa forks and was trying to fit Kayaba fork seals. I had the same problem and that is why I dug up the above information.

In the end after being repeatedly supplied with the wrong seals I ordered the correct Showa seals from Triumph. And when they arrived they matched exactly the seals I had removed, and they fitted easily. KAYABA seals will not fit in Showa forks, and contrary to some of the advice given can not be made to fit.
Printed out and added to my information binder. Thanks!
 

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Fork Oil Type?

Hey everyone,

I too will be replacing my fork seals tomorrow, but there's a bit of a wall that I've hit. None of my local motorcycle/auto shops seem to carry 10W20 fork oil.

I've tried researching online to see if using 10W30 fork oil would be appropriate as it seems most of the shops carry at least this viscosity.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 

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One reason for your difficulty is that xxWyy designations are for engine oils & have standard actual viscosity ranges according to International standards (API, JASO etc).

The first part xxW describes the viscosity range as a W or 'winter' number and is measured at 40 deg C temperature. (Viscosity being highly variable with temperature.)

The 'yy' part after the W designates an oil's weight range at 100 deg C. Which is considered the normal operating conditions of an engine oil, but is meaningless for a fork oil.

(Note that gearbox oils also have quite different 'W' range designations to engine oils - actual viscosities are not what would be expected. 80 or 90 gear oils are quite similar in viscosity to 40 engine oils.)

There are no 'standards' for fork oils, so it's down to each manufacturer to decide what they think a 10W fork oil is.

So, first point. AFAIK we have no idea what viscosity Triumph had in mind with '10W20'. Not even sure they did, as fork oils were probably dictated by commercial deals on their choice of engine oil. So long as the ride was 'adequate', job done.

So where are we then?

Well, here's my two cents.

First thing we want in a fork oil is a high 'Viscosity Index' (VI), because higher VI means less variation with temperature. This is especially true at the lower temperatures that fork oils normally work at compared to engines. Low VI oils will go from 'treacle' to 'water' when heading off for a run in winter and could take half an hour or longer to warm up to an equilibrium temperature.

(If this sounds sketchy, well, it is. Manufacturers get away with murder in suspension parts. They all know we won't miss what we never had, so they all scrimp $$ of the bike's new price by going cheap on the boingy bits. But it does depend on road surface quality... ride on billiard tables & you might as well not use suspension at all, not needed.)

High VI comes with using synthetic base oils and/or lots of viscosity modifier additives. (Generally additives have a higher 'wear out' factor but probably less so in the lower temps of fork oils.)

So, go for a quality synthetic with high VI, often sold as 'racing' oils. They don't cost much more.

Depending on your preference, either go for a 15W oil if the front feels a bit 'loose', especially coming off the brakes hard in corner entry. Otherwise, try a 10W oil. Note, it is possible to 'blend' in between viscosities with simple quantity ratios using the same make & type of oils.

Always use oils where the viscosity at 40 deg C is published, plus, either that at 100 deg C, or the VI, as the one can be calculated if the other is known (any two from three gives the other). Then if you need to change brand, you know where you were in actual viscosity and VI.

I put a chart of common fork oil viscosities here:

http://www.triumphrat.net/hinckley-classic-triples/164910-zx7r-96-03-usd-fork-conversion-legend-3.html#post1821293


Ok, that was at least 5 cents :D
 

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I remember reading about this back on the Sprint forums, but I had a hell of a time finding it.
http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid

This contains a chart listing a lot of suspension fluids in order of increasing viscosity. He also explains how the viscosity index should be used as opposed to just the oil weight. There's an awful lot of info here. After reading it all over and considering all the oil properties, I chose what Tmod recommended for my application. :eek:
 

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Thanks to both CharlieS and IrlMike, I was able to pick up some 15w fork oil at a Triumph dealership this morning. Back to working on those forks!
 
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