[Klem90]

Hey guys,

I believe I’m having an issue with my 2014 bonneville t100 but I’ve not been able to find specifics about this topic outside of a few threads that didn’t seem to have a concrete consensus.

I have an oil temp gauge from newbonneville, which I got because I suspected the bike was getting hotter than it should, and I am routinely seeing temps of 200 F (93 C) on 30 minute rides with ambient temps of 40-60 F (5-15 C). Yesterday I rode for about 40-50 minutes with ambient temps of about 70 F (21 C) and the gauge hit 240 F (115 C). I believe I’ve seen it go to 250 F (120 C) before but I cant remember the specifics. I’m usually on the highway for about half the time and low traffic city driving for the other half.

I currently have the TTP tune 2, Tec 2-1 exhaust, DNA filter, breathe intake, Airbox baffle delete, o2 sensor delete, AI delete. I was seeing these temps prior to those mods.

I recently checked my valve clearances and all but two intake valves were in spec and those two were .02-.04mm loose so i left them as is. The only other factor I can think of was that when I was installing the intake filter I saw oil in the airbox - I cleaned it out and made certain my oil levels were correct but have since seen trace amounts when I checked. Spark plugs look good and the bike runs great otherwise, but I never really ride for longer than 45 min or so. I get about 40mpg.

Hoping someone has some insight into whether these sorts of temps are acceptable, what to check for if not, and any possible causes.

Thanks in advance

 

[headcoats]

I have a JMP oil filler temperature gauge on my 2002 Bonneville and 80c is normal on mine ,even when thrashing
It will go up another 10 sitting in traffic but will settle back to 80 once back on the move
I got it for the same reasons thinking the engine was getting rather hot.
Don't know how accurate they are though

 

[Klem90]

Yeah that’s definitely an issue, I don’t really know how accurate this thing is…if both of ours are accurate though then I think I must have a problem

I have a JMP oil filler temperature gauge on my 2002 Bonneville and 80c is normal on mine ,even when thrashing
It will go up another 10 sitting in traffic but will settle back to 80 once back on the move
I got it for the same reasons thinking the engine was getting rather hot.
Don't know how accurate they are though

 

[Mike K.]

Here is an old thread I started years ago about riding in very cold weather and it has a good discussion about CHT and oil cooler temps. I took measurements with an infrared laser thermometer. From re-reading the thread, it seems 90 C is the normal oil cooler surface temperature for our bikes:

Cold Weather FI Fuel Economy

Has anybody played with their maps to lean out the mixture on colder days? My Bonnie gets about 58 mpg (25 km/l) when its high 80s (~30C) out but that goes down to 52 mpg when temps are closer to 70 and then when I am out in the 30s and 40s (0-5C) I am barely getting 45 mpg (19km/l). Could there...

www.triumphrat.net

 

[CHRIS211083]

Klem90 what year is your bike? Ref oil in airbox.
By the sounds of it your temp gauge is out. How old is it? Cheap temp gun can be had that's very accurate. I would buy one of these to put your mind at rest.
Another alternative is to remove the oil cooler and fit the Oil cooler in the frame rails. This lowers the oil temperature about 10-20deg.

 

[H3CT1C]

My 2¢ worth:

Have you checked the fins of your oil cooler aren't clogged up with debris? Sounds obvious, but you never know...

Do you know how accurate your temp guage is? Boil a pan of water (carefully!) and try to measure the temperature...

I have a temperature sensor in my sump plug, and have deleted the oil cooler in preference for running the oil leaving the cylinder head through the frame cradle rails and from there back to the sump. On my big-bore motor "normal" can be anywhere from 80-110⁰C - the biggest factor when seeing higher temps is stop-go traffic conditions, much more so than ambient air temps.

Oil temps over 100⁰C is a good thing: it'll evaporate any water that's been absorbed.

Having said that, 115⁰C is the hottest my bike ever runs at - either in heavy traffic or thrashed mercilessly on the track. I have had 120⁰C once - stupid fast on the motorway on the hottest day for years (35⁰C), I pulled off for a break and saw the temperature warning for a couple of seconds before returning to around 110⁰C by the time I'd parked moments later...

I'd only seriously worry if the bike was running at 125⁰C for extended periods of time...

Tim

~'05 Thruxton~Sport Evolution 1100cc~FCR 39mm~813 cams~+1.5mm valves~oil-in-frame cooling~Ignitech TCIP4~m-Unit~Acewell CA85~F3 Frankenfork~Hagon Nitros~6-piston Pretech~520 chain~wide 17" rims~tubeless conversion~Michelin Road 5~

 

[CHRIS211083]

Come on Tim, you can't say all that and not show some photos?
Love to see how you did your oil cooler in the rails. I've designed my own, it's in with the fabricator just now.
Also what sump plug adaptor did you use?

 

[mike-tt special]

Tim has some good suggestions for you..... especially testing the temp guage accuracy in boiling water (only the very bottom of the guage needs to be in the water) I did this with mine when I purchased it. as another guide to it's accuracy when I go in the garage I find it reads ambient temp pretty accurately also.

As you say that you felt that it always ran hot even before you made the changes, and those temps if accurate do seem unusually high for a std or lightly modified engine. I'd suspect a manufacturing issue.
A while back there were a few threads on here about people having issues with metal swarf in the banjo bolt of the oil feed to the cylinder head, also swarf in the banjo bolts of the oil lines from the head to the oil cooler (I think it was decided that it happened during the production process)
Another possibility is the plastic gear of the oil cooler pump has Broken and the oil is not being pumped to the head and oil cooler, this is a separate oil system to the lubrication system so the engine will still function ok but at higher temperatures.

As a guide to the oil temps you are seeing, the temp readings from my jmp guage on my highly tuned 904 bonnie are about
90-95⁰c normal riding in 18-24⁰c ambient.
95-105⁰c fast riding or heavy traffic in 22-26⁰c ambient.
With a highest reading I've seen of 115⁰c riding it like I stole it, when I noticed that temp I eased up and within a couple of miles the temp dropped to a more normal reading.

 

[H3CT1C]

@CHRIS211083

The temp sensor is an accessory for my Acewell CA85 speedo/tacho guage: plug'n'play simplicity.

1st pic: Hot oil now leaves cylinder head and enters top of right-hand frame-rail via new fittings (circled)...

2nd pic:...cool oil exits at bottom-rear of frame-rail (circled) and is drawn back into the sump via new oil line.

The angle I took the first picture distorts the perspective, but the new oil lines are at the same height as the old oil cooler....

@mike-tt special

Great call on the (partially) blocked oil line! IIRC the culprit in question was an errant piece of silicone gasket caught in the lower banjo bolt of the oil line running from the rear of the cylinder head to the top of the crankcases. Completely draining the oil and dismantling everything and blowing it all out with compressed air would solve the issue...


~'05 Thruxton~Sport Evolution 1100cc~FCR 39mm~813 cams~+1.5mm valves~oil-in-frame cooling~Ignitech TCIP4~m-Unit~Acewell CA85~F3 Frankenfork~Hagon Nitros~6-piston Pretech~520 chain~wide 17" rims~tubeless conversion~Michelin Road 5~

 

[CHRIS211083]

Only using the one frame rail. Interesting idea.

 

[headcoats]

Tidies up the front nicely
Chris maybe offer the one frame oil conversion too ?

 

[CHRIS211083]

I think both tubes would be better. If only someone would make some. 😜

 

[Klem90]

Good call on the cooler and gauge. The cooler itself looks to be in good shape and I did the boiling water test - seems as though the gauge is showing maybe 3-5 degrees cooler than it should.

I’d say that and the temperatures you and others see on your bikes confirm a problem on mine.

My 2¢ worth:

Have you checked the fins of your oil cooler aren't clogged up with debris? Sounds obvious, but you never know...

Do you know how accurate your temp guage is? Boil a pan of water (carefully!) and try to measure the temperature...

I have a temperature sensor in my sump plug, and have deleted the oil cooler in preference for running the oil leaving the cylinder head through the frame cradle rails and from there back to the sump. On my big-bore motor "normal" can be anywhere from 80-110⁰C - the biggest factor when seeing higher temps is stop-go traffic conditions, much more so than ambient air temps.

Oil temps over 100⁰C is a good thing: it'll evaporate any water that's been absorbed.

Having said that, 115⁰C is the hottest my bike ever runs at - either in heavy traffic or thrashed mercilessly on the track. I have had 120⁰C once - stupid fast on the motorway on the hottest day for years (35⁰C), I pulled off for a break and saw the temperature warning for a couple of seconds before returning to around 110⁰C by the time I'd parked moments later...

I'd only seriously worry if the bike was running at 125⁰C for extended periods of time...

Tim

~'05 Thruxton~Sport Evolution 1100cc~FCR 39mm~813 cams~+1.5mm valves~oil-in-frame cooling~Ignitech TCIP4~m-Unit~Acewell CA85~F3 Frankenfork~Hagon Nitros~6-piston Pretech~520 chain~wide 17" rims~tubeless conversion~Michelin Road 5~

 

[Klem90]

Both of those potential causes seem totally plausible, thanks for the insight. I’m going to start with looking for an obstruction to/from the oil cooler and then check the pump if I don’t find anything.

I’ll update this thread for anyone interested/experiencing similar issues.

Tim has some good suggestions for you..... especially testing the temp guage accuracy in boiling water (only the very bottom of the guage needs to be in the water) I did this with mine when I purchased it. as another guide to it's accuracy when I go in the garage I find it reads ambient temp pretty accurately also.

As you say that you felt that it always ran hot even before you made the changes, and those temps if accurate do seem unusually high for a std or lightly modified engine. I'd suspect a manufacturing issue.
A while back there were a few threads on here about people having issues with metal swarf in the banjo bolt of the oil feed to the cylinder head, also swarf in the banjo bolts of the oil lines from the head to the oil cooler (I think it was decided that it happened during the production process)
Another possibility is the plastic gear of the oil cooler pump has Broken and the oil is not being pumped to the head and oil cooler, this is a separate oil system to the lubrication system so the engine will still function ok but at higher temperatures.

As a guide to the oil temps you are seeing, the temp readings from my jmp guage on my highly tuned 904 bonnie are about
90-95⁰c normal riding in 18-24⁰c ambient.
95-105⁰c fast riding or heavy traffic in 22-26⁰c ambient.
With a highest reading I've seen of 115⁰c riding it like I stole it, when I noticed that temp I eased up and within a couple of miles the temp dropped to a more normal reading.

 

[bonza]

oil temperatures has been discussed a few time over the years. an early thread here with interesting results

New Oil Temperature Gauge

Well just got my Oil Gauge in the Mail from the great folks at NB (Thanks Brent & Jessica, love you guys), this puppy is excellent and highly recommended, my temp after riding for about 20 minutes at 70-75 mph remained at just under 200 F, so I will use that as the benchmark... Joe

www.triumphrat.net

and a later thread here Engine Temp with forchetto making comment if temps reach 125-130C to stop for a while

I have never measured mine but have ridden the bike for long distances with ambient air temperatures up to 47 C with no adverse affects

also, oil in the air box is normal as crank case fumes condense there and collect in the "catch can" collector tube attached to the underside of the air box that has to be emptied perodically

 

[Klem90]

Thanks that is good info. There seem to be a variety of opinions and experiences…makes it tough to know what’s “right”. I live in AZ so I’m concerned that when it starts to get hot as **** out here I’ll be in trouble.

oil temperatures has been discussed a few time over the years. an early thread here with interesting results

New Oil Temperature Gauge

Well just got my Oil Gauge in the Mail from the great folks at NB (Thanks Brent & Jessica, love you guys), this puppy is excellent and highly recommended, my temp after riding for about 20 minutes at 70-75 mph remained at just under 200 F, so I will use that as the benchmark... Joe

www.triumphrat.net

and a later thread here Engine Temp with forchetto making comment if temps reach 125-130C to stop for a while

I have never measured mine but have ridden the bike for long distances with ambient air temperatures up to 47 C with no adverse affects

also, oil in the air box is normal as crank case fumes condense there and collect in the "catch can" collector tube attached to the underside of the air box that has to be emptied perodically

 

[Wire-Wheels]

I live in the desert South-West. On a hot day I have seen temps up to 220F. but I like to keep in below 200f. if I can. I used to build VW sand rail engines professionally back in the 70's. At THAT time our oil rep from Valvoline recommended not exceeding 190f. on those air cooled engines, but I suspect today's synthetic oils can handle a little more heat. Might be a good question to pose to one of the oil company customer service people. ...J.D.

 

[Klem90]

Update for anyone following: I’ve taken off the cooler and inspected it and the feed and return lines. The only thing of note was after a while of sitting on the table the return line eeked out some tan colored oil - like when people don’t change their oil for a long time and it congeals. I have run break cleaner and compressed air through them and have seen no solid obstructions come out. I ordered a replacement for that line.

I looked at the pumps as well - both plastic gears are in tact and appear to be in good shape. I removed the front pump to look further and from what I can tell it looks fine though I have not checked clearances since I don’t have the narrow feeler gauges.

I’m sort of at a loss at this point, anyone have any ideas of what to check next?

Side question: anyone happen to know the part number for this? I am not able to track it down

 

[bonza]

check this out

 

[Jadorff]

they don't put oil temp gauges on bikes for a reason, the temp rises and falls constantly ,I am not shore but I think in the 70ties Kawasaki put oil temps on there bikes ,and every one keep bring them back with high temp complaints