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Discussion Starter #41
Hi there pinball
what could possibly go wrong?
Well if you are anything like me, one or two things !! I tried this and had a few issues, that doesn't mean you will though, and with the help of @Ripper he came up with an alternative that I found a bit easier. If you can hang on for a few more days I will be posting a write up. Please don't be put of doing the Beaver mod, but it might interest you to see what I have done.
Cheers
Jon
This is a blast from the past! I've still got the bike and the chip in the hand. I also did another loom with help from @Ripper so I can use this on my CB550 project.

Happy to help if I can.
 

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Great to get a couple of replies on this. Mr Beaver, I may well give you a shout on this. I must keep an eye out for your bike when I visit the UK as my brother is near you in Bishops Cleeve :laugh2: It's certainly your write up that has piqued my interest.

Johnnys Bonnie, I can certainly hang on for a bit especially as there are some loom access issues with the Bonneville America. I look forward to what you have come up with.
 

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After a couple of false starts I've finally finished the install of the keyless ignition. I appreciate the advice of other inmates here that helps me get this done and working.
 

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Well done pinball. Welcome to the keyless club :wink2:

Some pictures would be good

Cheers
Jon
 

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Bump.. Great thread. I`m looking to go key less on my Sprint ST 955i mainly because the original Triumph ignition just got wrecked in an attempted theft . First question would be are there any off the shelf systems that I could just plug in?
 

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Bump.. Great thread. I`m looking to go key less on my Sprint ST 955i mainly because the original Triumph ignition just got wrecked in an attempted theft . First question would be are there any off the shelf systems that I could just plug in?
Sorry to here that, at least you still have your bike, as far as I am aware there is not a manufacturer that does plug and play,

there are many options open to you depending on what you want,
digital guard dawg do a rfid type,
motogadet do a rfid type, one senses as you approach the bike one needs a fob offering up to it,

you can make your own rfid type, you can make a remote key fob type, I've currently have a ncs alarm with an output for ignition, which works well but there are a number of button presses to turn on and off,

I am currently stripping the loom down to modify wiring for a new type I have just ordered to give a go based on rfid but it doesn't look for tag until unit is prompted made by elektronikbox, will post how that goes in a week or so,

there is also a guy on the forum DEcosse who did make these to suit, not sure if he still offers that,
And Ripper who has helped many on these projects

Your main issue is you have posted on the Bonneville page not 955 page
do you have a drawing for your bike wiring you can post from that some advise on where you would need to wire to, once you have decided which type of keyless you wanted
 

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Thanks for the reply Ade.

Yeah I read DEcosse`s contribution to this thread and found links to his keyless projects. The bloke`s very knowlegable when it comes to electrics. His first project was for a speed triple using the same hardware as this thread so I`m guessing that it would work ok so long as it`s wired in correctly (Decosse has an example wiring diagram) Getting around to sourcing the components atm. It`s £138 for an oem triumph ignition compared to maybe £50 for the keyless project. Considering how easy it is for the average chav to break the Triumph ignition seems like a no brainer to go keyless, I mean most opportunist thieves are`nt even going to know where to start attacking the ignition from are they?

Look forward to hearing how your project goes
 

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His first project was for a speed triple using the same hardware as this thread so I`m guessing that it would work ok so long as it`s wired in correctly
Yes, once you have the wiring between the relay block and ignition switch connector sorted, it will work. I believe this hardware design originated on a Fireblade forum in 2010.
Considering how easy it is for the average chav to break the Triumph ignition seems like a no brainer to go keyless, I mean most opportunist thieves are`nt even going to know where to start attacking the ignition from are they?
Quite right, especially since the unit and associated wiring can be hidden away in the fairing. It probably wouldn't be much defense against the experienced thief with a van, but most thieves are opportunist and the switch barrel is the first thing they go for.


However, I came upon what I would consider to be a safety issue, concerning the behavior of the hardware in this thread, namely in how the relay latching works. Basically, because the kill switch is used to turn the bike off, if the kill switch gets flipped accidentally, or, like me you have 'friends' that think its fun to flip your kill switch whilst overtaking you, there's no way to get the ignition back on without presenting the tag. You may think that this is not an issue but you should at least be aware of it. I changed the latching system to one which needs a second swipe of the tag to switch the bike off but this means building a small circuit board and no one wanted to do that.


Another alternative is to use a remote controlled relay. This uses a push button fob like a car with a range of about 30 feet, wires to the same relay block, has its own built-in configurable latching system which makes the wiring a doddle and is widely available on eBay for around £4-5. Its also tiny. I think this is the cheapest home brew RFID ignition around.
https://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-technical-talk/943534-remote-relay-ignition.html
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Ah wow, that is mighty clever! I really like the remote relay concept, although also like the novelty of waving my hand next to the receiver.

If I hadn't shoved a chip in my hand I think I would have gone down this router :)
 

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Ah wow, that is mighty clever! I really like the remote relay concept, although also like the novelty of waving my hand next to the receiver.

If I hadn't shoved a chip in my hand I think I would have gone down this router :)

Ah, but you are the hero who took one for the team in having that tag in your hand. But thinking on, had you inserted the tag in another location, your ignition would have come on automatically when you sat on the bike :laugh2:
 

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If I hadn't shoved a chip in my hand I think I would have gone down this router :)
LOL...How`s your hand? How about deterring your hyperactive mates kill switch pranks by locating the rdif in the seat and the transponder in your scrotum :smile2:

I`m a noob when it comes to electronics, those RF controlled relays, are`nt they unsecure i.e all use the same frequency to activate? Could`nt anyone with a £3 433Mz fob switch your bike on?
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Ah, but you are the hero who took one for the team in having that tag in your hand. But thinking on, had you inserted the tag in another location, your ignition would have come on automatically when you sat on the bike :laugh2:
ha ha, Prince Albert that!

Carl, it's all good. Each chip is coded - it's allot like the microchips they use on pets (I'm basically a lost dog) each one has their own unique ref. There might be others with the same reference out there but the chances are worse than winning the lottery.

I would say in 99% of the time is causes no issues. However I'm flying most weeks from Bristol airport and their new scanners really like me. Edinburgh airport I don't have the problem :grin2:
 

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I`m a noob when it comes to electronics, those RF controlled relays, are`nt they unsecure i.e all use the same frequency to activate? Could`nt anyone with a £3 433Mz fob switch your bike on?
433MHz is the frequency band, which contains many individual frequencies. Even if two remote relays do operate on the same frequency, the fob transmits a digital code (there are billions of permutations) and the relay will only respond to one code. This means that it would simply ignore the code from any other fob operating on the same frequency. The remote relay gives roughly the same level of security as the RFID unit using a tag, it just has a few advantages like integrated antenna and being simpler to build/fit.



At the time Mr*Beaver was fitting his RFID ignition I did suggest locating the tag in his rectum.. I wanted to inject it using a shotgun but he wouldn't let me... :laugh2:
 

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As an option to a tag in your pocket or a chip in your hand, I got one of these with a chip built in.

Now that is a very neat idea. I've never seen one of those before.
 

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Another alternative is to use a remote controlled relay. This uses a push button fob like a car with a range of about 30 feet, wires to the same relay block, has its own built-in configurable latching system which makes the wiring a doddle and is widely available on eBay for around £4-5. Its also tiny. I think this is the cheapest home brew RFID ignition around.
https://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-technical-talk/943534-remote-relay-ignition.html

Thanks for the link, after reading this post, Jonnys Bonnie and DEcosse`s posts (all great write ups) I`ve settled on Jonnys remote relay design mostly because it fits my needs pretty well. All the parts have been sourced and I`ve wired up the remote and relays as per Johnnys instructions, now comes the tricky bit, for me anyway, wiring it into the bike.

My starting point is the bare wires that come out of the ignition switch (pictured)



https://www.triumphrat.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=646212&thumb=1


I`ve sort of tried to cross reference DEcosses design for Sprint ST wiring with Jonnys to find a starting point but because DEcosse uses 3 relays it`s giving me brain ache. I could go with trial and error and stumble on the right connections but if anyone out there with with electrical know how could chip in with a few tips that would be a great help. My wiring is the much the same as in Decosses diagram..

https://www.triumphrat.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=646210&thumb=1
 

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I`ve sort of tried to cross reference DEcosses design for Sprint ST wiring with Jonnys to find a starting point but because DEcosse uses 3 relays it`s giving me brain ache. I could go with trial and error and stumble on the right connections but if anyone out there with with electrical know how could chip in with a few tips that would be a great help. My wiring is the much the same as in Decosses diagram..

Okay, well firstly, ignore the colours of the wires on the switch half of the ignition connector since these can differ. Its the colours of the bike half that are the proper ones. With the remote relay ignition, its the remote relay itself that drives the ignition relays, so the relay wiring in the diagram you posted only applies to you in the sense of which ignition wires each relay is connected to. Since these home brew ignition systems emulate the switching of the mechanical key switch by using relays, the best option for you is to use 3 relays instead of 2. If you PM me with an email address I will try to knock up a diagram for you.
 
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