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Agree - A soft thin aluminum shim would probably be the best. That's not a common item that most people have access to.
Not sure but a couple layers of aluminum tape just be be the trick? Never tried that one.
Surfacing the brake disc with a 120 grit flapper disc in a orbital grinder works in a pinch if a lathe is not available.
A lot of people i know drink beer..:wink
Its an old trick ive heard of and tried, didnt fix my squeal at the time, only improved it a bit, had to chamfer the edge of the brake pad facing the rotation to make it go away completely.
 

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NO

I really have to say something now.

Do not mess with your brakes !! Come one guys !! You don't need to add paste or copper grease or shims or anything !!

Braking creates a huge amount of heat - that's how you stop. All that speed is converted into heat.

While these brakes are not the best in the world they are tried an tested especially if you use EBC pads and disk.

Brakes WILL save your life. DO NOT MESS WITH THEM !! Will you be confident of your brakes in an emergency ?

I love this forum and there is great advice available, but not this time. If you don't know what you are doing please take your bike to a trusted bike shop for help.

I guess I will be flamed for this, but I think another opinion should be aired. We all know the dangers of riding a motorcycle, please don't make it worse.

Jon
 

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A lot of people i know drink beer..:wink
Its an old trick ive heard of and tried, didnt fix my squeal at the time, only improved it a bit, had to chamfer the edge of the brake pad facing the rotation to make it go away completely.
Clever! That did not come to mind.
 

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had to chamfer the edge of the brake pad facing the rotation to make it go away completely.
THIS.
I recommend this to everyone that complains of disc brake squeal on any vehicle.
I also suggest roughing up the pad faces with some emery paper to remove any glaze that formed. The glazing can contribute to the squealing or can be caused by it.
 

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I really have to say something now.

Do not mess with your brakes !! Come one guys !! You don't need to add paste or copper grease or shims or anything !!

Braking creates a huge amount of heat - that's how you stop. All that speed is converted into heat.

While these brakes are not the best in the world they are tried an tested especially if you use EBC pads and disk.

Brakes WILL save your life. DO NOT MESS WITH THEM !! Will you be confident of your brakes in an emergency ?

I love this forum and there is great advice available, but not this time. If you don't know what you are doing please take your bike to a trusted bike shop for help.

I guess I will be flamed for this, but I think another opinion should be aired. We all know the dangers of riding a motorcycle, please don't make it worse.

Jon
While I understand your concerns and agree to a point. If you followed that analogy then no one should ever do anything to their bikes that might possibly jeopardize safety. Change your own tires, suspension work, adjust or modify anything? All could cause fatal loss if something goes wrong and was improperly done.

Adding a .035 or less shim damper the the back side of the brake pad puck (which is OEM on may vehicles) in my opinion hardy classifies as any more dangerous then simply replacing your brake pads and not know what you are doing.
But I do respect your opinion.
 

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If you haven't done so, read the full thread where the OP states he has already tried chamfering pads, new pads, anti squeal paste, grease, Pin cleaning, rotor checked for trueness, wheel square in swingarm and more.

I know I could not rationalize putting bits of kitchenware in a life-safety device just to hopefully eliminate a bothersome sound.

If all is in spec and properly setup, there will be no squeal. Bandaids are not the solution.

You're not only risking your life, but that of others, to say nothing of what an insurance investigator might say about your brake mods after a crash.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Let's please not let this discussion sink to an unpleasant level. We all have our opinions and should feel free to bring them to the forum without fear of unpleasant retorts. For what it's worth, I have been working on disk brakes since I got them on my Triumph TR-3 in 1960. I can tell you what would happen if you went to the dealer with this problem, based on my experience:

1. We'll have to look at it. (leave vehicle overnight)
2. We cleaned and "adjusted" everything, should be OK. ($60 for 1 hour)
3. Bring it back because no change. Need to replace pads. ($200 for pads and labor, even though old ones were fine)
4. Bring it back because no change. Get dumb look. Try driving it for some extended period and see if it goes away. No change, of course.
5. Swap this car for one that was being used by someone who retired, let this one go to the pool.

This was a car, but likely the same for the motorcycle. Fortunately, it was a company car and I wasn't paying.

As I mentioned earlier, BMW at one time suggested adding greased gasket paper shims to stop the squealing. Some EBC pads for cars have Teflon coated backs. Teflon shims are often used on car brakes, they come with the pads. Many disk brake systems use thin metal shims as OEM. Much of the time they are lost at the first pad change because the mechanic didn't know to remove them. Using non-melting brake lube on pad backs is SOP for many applications, many have had success with disk brake quiet. The whole idea is to dampen the vibrations of the pads and separate them from other parts of the system which amplify the noise.

If you take a look at how the brakes function, you will note that the pads and shims, if you have them, don't rotate. The movement of the pads by the pistons is measured in thousandths of an inch. I'm not certain that adding a thin shim between the pistons and the pads, held in place by the same pins that secure the pads, is likely to create a danger, but YMMV. Likewise, a thin coat of non-melting grease isn't going to do anything either. It doesn't take much reading of the forum to realize that a lot of us don't use the rear brakes. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, let's just keep it civil.

By the way, for those favoring chamfering, I have tried this but maybe I didn't do enough. How much is "just right?"

I very much appreciate everyone's contribution and look forward to continued advice from the forum on this and other subjects.
 

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Usually as you already know applying lube, shims or some other goop to every part of the caliper, pads or bracket where there is metal to metal contact will stop the squeal, at least temporally. Since none of that is working I'll offer another shot in the dark suggestion. Apply some lube to the forward part of the caliper bracket that contacts the swing arm and make sure the axle nut is tightened to the correct torque.
 

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There are 2 basic causes of brake squeal: contamination and vibration.
Contamination can be caused by lubricants and other fluids, rust, dust/dirt, and glazing.
Glazing can be caused by excessive heat, usually dragging brakes, or excessively soft use of them.
Vibration can be caused by rust, dust/dirt, wrong pad material, overly sharp pad edges, loose worn or misaligned brake components.
I am thinking that the vibration could also be cause by you bike's rear end components: Tire or chain, wheel alignment, or trueness, bearings, or loose wheel. I would think that the bearings would be the most probable, since that would allow the disc to move around in the caliper.
 

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Let's please not let this discussion sink to an unpleasant level. We all have our opinions and should feel free to bring them to the forum without fear of unpleasant retorts. For what it's worth, I have been working on disk brakes since I got them on my Triumph TR-3 in 1960. I can tell you what would happen if you went to the dealer with this problem, based on my experience:

1. We'll have to look at it. (leave vehicle overnight)
2. We cleaned and "adjusted" everything, should be OK. ($60 for 1 hour)
3. Bring it back because no change. Need to replace pads. ($200 for pads and labor, even though old ones were fine)
4. Bring it back because no change. Get dumb look. Try driving it for some extended period and see if it goes away. No change, of course.
5. Swap this car for one that was being used by someone who retired, let this one go to the pool.

This was a car, but likely the same for the motorcycle. Fortunately, it was a company car and I wasn't paying.

As I mentioned earlier, BMW at one time suggested adding greased gasket paper shims to stop the squealing. Some EBC pads for cars have Teflon coated backs. Teflon shims are often used on car brakes, they come with the pads. Many disk brake systems use thin metal shims as OEM. Much of the time they are lost at the first pad change because the mechanic didn't know to remove them. Using non-melting brake lube on pad backs is SOP for many applications, many have had success with disk brake quiet. The whole idea is to dampen the vibrations of the pads and separate them from other parts of the system which amplify the noise.

If you take a look at how the brakes function, you will note that the pads and shims, if you have them, don't rotate. The movement of the pads by the pistons is measured in thousandths of an inch. I'm not certain that adding a thin shim between the pistons and the pads, held in place by the same pins that secure the pads, is likely to create a danger, but YMMV. Likewise, a thin coat of non-melting grease isn't going to do anything either. It doesn't take much reading of the forum to realize that a lot of us don't use the rear brakes. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, let's just keep it civil.

By the way, for those favoring chamfering, I have tried this but maybe I didn't do enough. How much is "just right?"

I very much appreciate everyone's contribution and look forward to continued advice from the forum on this and other subjects.
I like your attitude on this. It is a complaint that comes up often, and its not a 1-cure-fits-all solution. It is a good exercise for all of us.
I do my chamfering only when necessary. I do it at a 45 deg. angle and just enough to take the edge of the pads, maybe 1/32".
Once you've tried something and have the brake reassembled use the brakes hard on your test run to seat them back in before you make a judgement on whether it worked or not.
For those worried about removing part of the pad area, the leading and trailing edges are not that well supported by the pistons, the are just sitting there vibrating, which reduces the effectiveness of the brakes. Many new pads come with a manufactured-in chamfer.
 

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Let's please not let this discussion sink to an unpleasant level. We all have our opinions and should feel free to bring them to the forum without fear of unpleasant retorts. For what it's worth, I have been working on disk brakes since I got them on my Triumph TR-3 in 1960. I can tell you what would happen if you went to the dealer with this problem, based on my experience:

1. We'll have to look at it. (leave vehicle overnight)
2. We cleaned and "adjusted" everything, should be OK. ($60 for 1 hour)
3. Bring it back because no change. Need to replace pads. ($200 for pads and labor, even though old ones were fine)
4. Bring it back because no change. Get dumb look. Try driving it for some extended period and see if it goes away. No change, of course.
5. Swap this car for one that was being used by someone who retired, let this one go to the pool.

This was a car, but likely the same for the motorcycle. Fortunately, it was a company car and I wasn't paying.

As I mentioned earlier, BMW at one time suggested adding greased gasket paper shims to stop the squealing. Some EBC pads for cars have Teflon coated backs. Teflon shims are often used on car brakes, they come with the pads. Many disk brake systems use thin metal shims as OEM. Much of the time they are lost at the first pad change because the mechanic didn't know to remove them. Using non-melting brake lube on pad backs is SOP for many applications, many have had success with disk brake quiet. The whole idea is to dampen the vibrations of the pads and separate them from other parts of the system which amplify the noise.

If you take a look at how the brakes function, you will note that the pads and shims, if you have them, don't rotate. The movement of the pads by the pistons is measured in thousandths of an inch. I'm not certain that adding a thin shim between the pistons and the pads, held in place by the same pins that secure the pads, is likely to create a danger, but YMMV. Likewise, a thin coat of non-melting grease isn't going to do anything either. It doesn't take much reading of the forum to realize that a lot of us don't use the rear brakes. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, let's just keep it civil.

By the way, for those favoring chamfering, I have tried this but maybe I didn't do enough. How much is "just right?"

I very much appreciate everyone's contribution and look forward to continued advice from the forum on this and other subjects.
I chamfer 30-45 degrees, almost all the way down to the metal backing. Completely removes squeal.
 

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I had a similar issue on the front of my Bonneville.
I know you said you changed pads. All I can say is,
the pads were my problem. I went through 2 different
types of aftermarket pads before the squeal disappeared.
I don't remember the brand I finally settled on, but they
were very expensive high performance pads. In retrospect,
pretty cheap to solve the problem after hearing what you've
been through !!!!
 

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I have searched this topic on this and other forums, read hundreds of posts, followed everybody's advice, and still have a terrible squeal from the rear brakes when I come up to a stop. Here's what I have already done: replaced original brake pads with EBC HH, which I have used on my two other twins with no squeal, lightly sanded the rotor to remove rust and any glazing, completely cleaned and lubricated caliper, greased everything (including back of pads) with brake lube, cleaned all the lube off and tried disk brake quiet (2 different brands, 2 different times), took everything apart again and chamfered the edges of the pads, lightly sanded the face of the pads (original and EBC), re-torqued the rotor, cleaned everything off again. Still have the loudest squeal you can imagine when pulling up to a stop. Other than that, brakes work fine. This is on a 2011 T100 with about 4,500 miles. It was a barn find when I got it, hadn't run in over a year. I would really appreciate any ideas. Are there perhaps any other pads I should try? I remember once on the BMW forum they suggested making pad shims out of thin gasket paper and soaking them with brake grease, and also someone suggested making some shims out of aluminum cans. Haven't tried either of these yet. Thanks for your help!
I had the same issue (not t100 though) this is what I done it worked for me, it may work for you good luck...I changed the rotor (mine was in spec but I changed it anyway) and I cleaned up the threads on the rotor bolts and retorqued, I replaced anti-rattle springs, and replaced with new pins, I removed the caliper mounting bolts and cleaned up the threads and retorqued. While the caliper was off I then worked the brake (real slow) to check the piston for play or wear. Squeal is caused by vibration, thats what squeal is. Something is loose there my friend and not like obvious loose, (static loose) but under load loose.
 

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Might sound a little out there but try riding very slowly without the rear brakes even attached and listen for the sound. I had a similar squeal that was actually coming from my inadequately-lubed speedo cable.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
This week I decided to take the rear end completely apart, check the wheel bearings, sprockets, chain, alignment. Then I chamfered the pads more aggressively, 45 degrees, about 3/8" chamfer face. Cleaned everything with brake cleaner, lubricated everything that should be, and put it back together. Rode it today and followed the recommended break-in procedure, and it still squeals. I then decided that it wouldn't be that expensive to order some different pads, so I ordered some more EBC, organic this time. They should be here next week, I'll let everyone know what happens. I've always used the EBC HH, and they were recommended by my dealer. I can't give up on this now. Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate it.

While I'm at it, how tight do the pins fit in the pads? I suspect there must be some play but these seem loose. They fit snugly in the calipers and don't show any wear where the pads go.
 

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Pad to pin slop is ok, they're under no stress or load. Just there to keep the pads from falling out. Good luck.
 

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This week I decided to take the rear end completely apart, check the wheel bearings, sprockets, chain, alignment. Then I chamfered the pads more aggressively, 45 degrees, about 3/8" chamfer face. Cleaned everything with brake cleaner, lubricated everything that should be, and put it back together. Rode it today and followed the recommended break-in procedure, and it still squeals. I then decided that it wouldn't be that expensive to order some different pads, so I ordered some more EBC, organic this time. They should be here next week, I'll let everyone know what happens. I've always used the EBC HH, and they were recommended by my dealer. I can't give up on this now. Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate it.

While I'm at it, how tight do the pins fit in the pads? I suspect there must be some play but these seem loose. They fit snugly in the calipers and don't show any wear where the pads go.
There's something loose there caused by either wear or by not being seated properly, what you have there is a high frequency vibration and the human ear, hears it as squeal. Just to be clear, does this squeal only happen when the rear brake is applied? or is the squeal there all the time irrespective of wether the brake is applied or not.
Changing the pads would make sense,:wrenchin I have heard tales about the back of the pads becoming cupped or bowed during manufacture.! (unlikely with EBC, but you never know) Check the back of the pads by laying them on something flat, just a sheet of glass will do.
I don't want to send you on a wild goose chase, but keep in mind the only places where you are going to get vibration is in three areas and they are:
1. Pads (to hard material, or loose material, or pad backing plate cupped, bowed)
2. Rotor (runout, or loose on wheel, or flexing under load?)
3. Caliper (mounting bolts loose or worn, at caliper body, or piston loose or worn)
Work methodicaly and in a logical manner and make sure everything is clean (I know you have done this all before) but this is your braking system your spannering (wrenchin) on.
Check everything, and then check again.!
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Success at last! My EBC Organic pads (214/2) arrived today. I immediately installed them, cleaned up the rotor with a light sanding again, and headed down the driveway. No squeal! Went for a 120 mile ride to make sure everything was OK. No noise at all. The organics don't have quite the "bite" of the HH version but they work fine if you mash a little harder.

I carefully examined the HH's and found that the outer pad was slightly convex as you look at the metal backing. The inner pad was totally flat. The Organics were perfectly flat. This might have been the problem, allowing some movement during light braking when you came up to a stop. Or the softer organic compound may be the answer. In any case, the noise is gone and I am a happy camper.

If anybody wants a possibly defective set of 214 HH pads with less than 500 miles, send me a PM and I'll mail them to you at no cost.

Thanks for everybody's help.

As an aside, I got a pair of Norman Hyde Togas with the bike. They are in perfect condition and probably used only about 1,000 miles. Does anyone have any idea what would be a reasonable price for these?
 

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That is great news. I would contact whomever you bought the HH pads from as they are defective if they are convex on the backside.
That is where the vibration / squeal was coming from. The pad was not sitting flush on the piston and that is also why shims / goop/ pads ect... take up the void and usually stop the vibration & squeal.

At least you got it resolved. Excellent.
 
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