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Discussion Starter #1
We all know about scrubbing in new tyres, maybe it was the excitement of getting out on my bike, first time in months, but first junction after leaving garage I pull away and the front wheel just goes, and I'm down.
Only the second time out with my expensive Rizoma mirrors. Minor damage to mirror, Oberon bar end weight and foot peg, brake peddle, silencer, indicator and headlight rim:mad: and I'm still suffering, three days later. So learn from my mistake and beware those new tyres!
 

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I have been roasted before for this opinion, but it's still unchanged, so I'll say it again. I think tyres companies & retail outlets are leaving themselves wide open to litigation by selling the public a product that's unsafe to use when first purchased. It shouldn't be up to the consumer to make their product safe, & if that's what they intend, they should thoroughly explain the process that makes their product safe. Not just a throw away line of "Be careful on them till they're scrubbed in Mate." When they give you back your bike. Personally I think it's the responsibility of the tyre company to sell a legal roadworthy product from the point of purchase. & if I'm ever unfortunate enough to do expensive damage &/or serious injury from one of their slippery tyres, I'll be going to see my Solicitor
 

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Sorry to hear of your off. It is never nice

I have 8 kilometres of excellent corners between my tyre place and my home. I just progressive push it through the corners until I get home. Tyres are then scrubbed in :)
 

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...bummer about your off. Could it be the brand? Or those quality bituminous British roads?
Last two sets I've had I just drove and never thought about it. Maybe I didn't hit a corner
in the first mile or so? Lot's of variables. In the end, it stinks that you are laying in the
road wondering what happened?
 

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How timely, I just put a new foot peg on my Trident this week.
I sold the bike to a mate, he bought a new tyre, heard the warning from the tyre shop, and failed to make to the other side of the road!
For 15 odd years it's had half a peg:(
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Although I accept it was totally my fault, just jumped on the bike and rode of as normal, without thinking, be careful be careful, new tyres.
The fact remains that the bike was safer to ride to the garage than when I left the garage, therefore I agree with everything Old Scratcher says, but I won't be seeing a solicitor, I'll just put it down to experience.
I had Pirelli sport demon fitted, same as before, so don't think brand was the issue, probably just over exuberance on new tyres.
Still, never mind, there's worse things happen.
 

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I have been roasted before for this opinion, but it's still unchanged, so I'll say it again. I think tyres companies & retail outlets are leaving themselves wide open to litigation by selling the public a product that's unsafe to use when first purchased. It shouldn't be up to the consumer to make their product safe, & if that's what they intend, they should thoroughly explain the process that makes their product safe. Not just a throw away line of "Be careful on them till they're scrubbed in Mate." When they give you back your bike. Personally I think it's the responsibility of the tyre company to sell a legal roadworthy product from the point of purchase. & if I'm ever unfortunate enough to do expensive damage &/or serious injury from one of their slippery tyres, I'll be going to see my Solicitor
This is NOT an attempt to roast anyone.

I'm not going to say that your thoughts on the subject have no merit, but I'd like to know if there's a solution that you have in mind besides litigation after the fact.

Because I lack sufficient technical knowledge of tyre engineering, I can think of only two possible outcomes from the enforcement of your position.

Tyres will be sold without any "break in" requirement, but their ultimate performance will be degraded either by reduced mileage or diminished maximum adhesion.

Tires for motorcycles will be too risky for sale for street use and will either become much more expensive or simply unavailable.

Are there other alternatives?

I'm not one of those who drones on complaining about the "nanny state" but as long as the dangers are known, I'm willing to accept responsibility for my own mistakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
fuknKIWI, I never had that warning from the tyre fitter (although I new anyway) but if he had just said "don' forget to scrub them in" then it would have logged in my brain and I think I would have been fine.
SlowPocono, could it be as simple as a light rub over with sandpaper, or is that just silly!
 

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I have been roasted before for this opinion, but it's still unchanged, so I'll say it again. I think tyres companies & retail outlets are leaving themselves wide open to litigation by selling the public a product that's unsafe to use when first purchased. It shouldn't be up to the consumer to make their product safe, & if that's what they intend, they should thoroughly explain the process that makes their product safe. Not just a throw away line of "Be careful on them till they're scrubbed in Mate." When they give you back your bike. Personally I think it's the responsibility of the tyre company to sell a legal roadworthy product from the point of purchase. & if I'm ever unfortunate enough to do expensive damage &/or serious injury from one of their slippery tyres, I'll be going to see my Solicitor
If tyre shops and tyre manufactures are required to take liability for the first miles from tyre change then we could see tyres become even more expensive. We ride motorcycles and we take the risks. I prefer the customer take it easy after mounting new tyres than the industry taking the risk. Tyres are already stupid expensive.
 

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Sorry to hear about the spill. I remember when my dealer told me to be real easy on my new Speedmaster for the first few miles because of the tires - I guess they meant it.
 

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My tyre guy says "take care" when i am leaving the fitting bay. I always thought that he was concerned for my welfare and health not warning me about my tyres :) .

Everyone knows that new tyres are slippery. Sometimes we just have to take responsibility for the things we do and things we know.
 

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All tire manufacturers use polymer/silicone mold release agents that are sprayed into the tire molds so the rubber doesn't stick to the mold at the end of the molding process. Most all publish warnings about tire "break in" of 100 to 500 miles to wear off any of the left over agenst because they are really lubricants.

Me? I sand my tires lightly before installation.
 

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I was told by a "tire expert" sanding will not help. You need to put heat through them such as generated by the friction of asphalt at speed over time.

Sorry to hear you had an accident, Al.

My 2 cents (and not trying to pour salt on your wounds) they scrub in pretty quick, nothing like the 100 mile break in of yore. I stay wary for maybe 20 km at highway speed until they heat up then gradually feed in more lean. By 50 km I'm riding as usual.

I think most guys who crash on new tires just forget and take the very first turn with cold slippery tires coming right out of the shop. If you just pretend your riding in the rain your fine.
 

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This is NOT an attempt to roast anyone.

I'm not going to say that your thoughts on the subject have no merit, but I'd like to know if there's a solution that you have in mind besides litigation after the fact.

Because I lack sufficient technical knowledge of tyre engineering, I can think of only two possible outcomes from the enforcement of your position.

Tyres will be sold without any "break in" requirement, but their ultimate performance will be degraded either by reduced mileage or diminished maximum adhesion.

Tires for motorcycles will be too risky for sale for street use and will either become much more expensive or simply unavailable.

Are there other alternatives?

I'm not one of those who drones on complaining about the "nanny state" but as long as the dangers are known, I'm willing to accept responsibility for my own mistakes.
I maintain that it's the sellers responsibility to sell a safe product, from the moment it's used on a public road. If their product needs a verbal warning to take care for the first 50 Kim's or so, that means they expect you to ride an unsafe bike for 50klms. I know that I've had tyres that felt worse than the bald tyres I rode in on, & that's just wrong! However I wouldn't like to see Riders suffer from forcing Tyre companies to accept their legal obligations, & I don't see why they should. It would be cheap, quick & easy to apply a solution, or a light abrasive to the Tyre as it's being spun to balance the Wheel. This would remove all the slippery stuff from the rubber, before it gets fitted to the bike. It's such a simple fix I can't believe it's not done already.
 

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...It would be cheap, quick & easy to apply a solution, or a light abrasive to the Tyre as it's being spun to balance the Wheel. This would remove all the slippery stuff from the rubber, before it gets fitted to the bike. It's such a simple fix I can't believe it's not done already.

Once more, I'll say that I'm not an expert on tire technology, but what Ive read elsewhere as well as in this thread indicates your assumption simply isn't true.
 

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It has to be. The wheel is spinning, just like it is on a bike. It has to be possible to mimic a road surface to remove the gunk. A simple horseshoe shaped piece of road surface would remove it all right up to th bead. The ONLY reason it hasn't happened is most people are just too emberarassed to complain, let alone litigate. & the tyre companies are content to let sleeping dogs lie. However all it'd take is one successful class action, & there'll be a device to remove the gunk in every tyre shop quick smart.
 

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All tire manufacturers use polymer/silicone mold release agents that are sprayed into the tire molds so the rubber doesn't stick to the mold at the end of the molding process.
This is largely not true anymore. Most modern tire molds use a teflon coating so that the tire no longer requires a mold release agent. Tire manufacturers do still use chemical additives to help the tire flow and reduce surface defects, but it isn't like it used to be. Michelin was the only company that still claims to use a mold release agent of the big name brands as far as I know. I am not sure about tire companies who are still making use of older tire molds, such as Shinko, Kendra, etc.

There was a conversation about this within our club and a few people compiled some responses from some of the major brands from various sites and emails as follows:

Pirelli/Metzler:

"Pirelli does not use mold release. Tires are shiny because the general buying public demands that visually a tire look cool, smooth, shiny, and new when they shop for tires in the rack at the dealer. We rely on the smoothness of the mold to get this appearance and to help the tire let go from the mold during production. Tires require proper break in time which will allow getting heat into tires, only time and friction will put the heat in. I have attached a copy of the brochure so you can read about break in suggestions in the technical area. Ride safe"


More from Pirelli:

The idea of the breaking in a new tire is as follows. First is that after the install the tire will move ever so slightly on the rim to seat itself in the first few miles. The break in procedure we suggest is somewhere between 3 corners of the first lap for a race tire on a race track to about 300 miles for a touring tire. Why?

Well the extreme forces generated to the soft race compound tire by a expert rider will break in the tire in the first few corners of the race track. Then on the other end you we have a guy on a Harley riding on public roads at legal speeds gently scrubbing in the tires over the 300 or so miles of use.

Now let's talk about scrubbing. When the tire is new the very sharp edges of the tread grooves combined with the tire's smooth surface GIVE the impression of a slippery tire, but that is NOT the case.

This new tire is sensitive to the various bumps, grooves, holes of the pavement and this sensitivity is what most consumers think is the slippery feeling. So as you can see the point of the breaking in tires is to help the you get used to a new (non worn out) quicker and better handling tire at a easy pace and to knock off the sharp edges and scuff the tread blocks.

We hope this helps answer your questions and ride safe.

US Pirelli Moto
www.us.pirellimoto.com

Dunlop:

"Thank you for taking the time to contact Dunlop regarding your motorcycle tire questions. Dunlop Motorcycle Tire does NOT use a "mold releasing agent" during the production of our tires. When new tires are fitted, they should not be subjected to maximum power, abrupt lean-over or hard cornering until a reasonable run-in distance of approximately 100 miles has been covered. This will permit the rider to become accustomed to the feel of the new tires or tire combination, find the edge, and achieve optimum road grip for a range of speeds, acceleration and handling use."

More for Dunlop:


How much run-in should I give a new tire?

When new tires are fitted, they should not be subjected to maximum power or hard cornering until a reasonable run-in distance of approximately 100 miles has been achieved.
This is necessary for a number of reasons. Replacements for worn tires with different patterns and construction will not react the same. Also, a new tire is stiffer than an old tire. The new tire has a rounder tread profile, different contact patch and "lean-over edge" than the worn profile of an old tire. The new tire will also not react the same in combination with its remaining tire.
Carrying out the required run-in will allow you to become accustomed to the "feel" of the new tires and tire combinations, so you are better able to achieve optimum road grip for use in high speed, high acceleration and handling situations.

Michelin:

"Thank you for your email. We appreciate the opportunity to serve you.

Concerning your question, Michelin has a mold release agent on all
motorcycle tires. This will cause the tire to be slippery in the first
few miles, but that goes away after the tire is scrubbed in. This normally
occurs in the first 25-50 miles or so. Until then, the rider should use
caution in riding the tire at accelerated speeds. Michelin always
recommends obeying the speed limits and using care whenever riding.

Bridgestone: Didn't exactly say one way or the other...

"Break-in Period
In order for your new tire(s) to provide optimum performance, tires should be ridden very cautiously for the first 100 miles in order for the tread surface to be “Scuffed-In” and work properly. Directly after new tires are mounted, sudden acceleration, maximum braking and hard cornering must be avoided. This will allow the rider to adjust to the “Feel” and handling characteristics of the new tire and for the new tire to be “Scuffed-In” correctly in order to achieve optimum grip level."


Take it for what it is worth, this data was collected 4-5 years ago. I would recommend contacting the manufacturers again for updated info if your curious as to who or who may not use mold release agents in the manufacturing process of their tires.

Edit: As I suspected, Shinko does still use a release agent..

"What is the recommended run-in for a new street tire?

Shinko recommends a run-in distance of approximately 100 miles. Before then, maximum power or hard cornering should not be applied to the tires. Proper run-in allows you to familiarize yourself with the feel of the new tires or tire combination, as well as allowing the tire mold release agent applied during the manufacturing process to be worn off."
 

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Thanks for that real information, Cuchulainn.
I was under the impression that the non-use of mold release compounds was universal.

Maybe this makes a solution to the problem even more difficult to achieve?
 
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