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Interesting read but coal (derived) powered bikes are just not practical.
Run times and charge times totally disable them from all but short fun runs.
Figures quoted are never real world, reduce by at least 60% is reasonable.
One benefit to help off roaders is the quiet running that could allow off roading riding near "sensitive" groups
I tried the new KTM electric MX bike, it went well, but felt quite top heavy as they all seem to put the batteries quite high into the frame, it had a run time of 30 mins on low setting and a 2 hr charge time. for the same (or less) price you could buy the real thing fill in a few mins and run for considerably longer.
 

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Hi,
This is my experience with electric vehicles earlier this year:

There was a radio documentary on BBC radio 4 a few months ago, hosted by the Electric vehicle experience centre. They were very positive about electric cars and made quite a convincing case that the technology was now good enough for public use.

I had to visit Denmark the next week and hire a car fro Billund Airport, I noticed on the booking web site that electric cars were available. With the encouraging words from the radio program fresh in my mind, I booked a Renault Zoe with the big 41kw/h battery. (300Km/190 mile range)

This is a synopsis of my conversation at the collection desk:

Me: Hi, I have come to pick up my vehicle.
Receptionist: I see you have an electric vehicle booked, may I ask where you intend to travel to.
Me: Viborg
Receptionist: Oh, then I recommend you change your booking to a petrol or diesel car.
Me: But it is only an hour’s drive away (90km).
Receptionist: I think it will run out of charge on the way back.
Me: It’s OK, I can plug it in overnight for the return journey.
Receptionist: You will need to plug it in for 30 hours, unless you have a rapid charger system installed.
Me: So I can’t make a 180km journey with an overnight charge.
Receptionist: Most likely not and roadside recovery for discharged battery is not covered under our terms and conditions.
Me: Do many people run out of charge.
Receptionist: Yes
Me: So they are pretty useless then.
Receptionist: I am not allowed to say.
Me: Can I change my booking for a diesel car.
Receptionist: Yes of course.

Regards
Peg.
 

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Priceless. See a few being used here as personal transportation. Haven’t heard any feedback.
 

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The Electric 6 lap Senior race at the IOM TT will have to last all week, with overnight pit stops.
 

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Gator

I occasionally see an electric bike on the way to work. Not something I would want any more than an electric car.

I laughed the when I saw the Tesla with gull wing doors pull up in the rain at the grocery store. All I could visualize was the door opening with the roof covered in snow.

Back to the electric vehicle thing. IF you do any long distance traveling how do you do it with an electric vehicle? They have limited range and cannot be 'refilled' at the pump in 10 minutes.

Then there is the cost of replacement batteries.

Nope not for me.

K
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Kadutz & friends -

I am not a fan of EV's at all. All the reasons listed and many more. I just wanted to present some new bikes I had not known about. Most, as Peg has so well demonstrated, are simply not ready for the real world. But there are bigger issues.....

I am an EE - and no one is addressing the big Kahuna issue with EV's - or using another phrase, the elephant in the room.

Today's electric grids cannot provide the amperage required to power even a world of 10% EV's, and as that number is approached, high-voltage electrical distribution systems will begin to collapse. I believe this is even more true in Europe than here in the US. And we do not have the generating capacity for a real-world percentage of EV's either. While electrical power usage has been actually dropping due to things like LED's and a concentration on energy efficiency, it is no where enough to handle the added loads of any real percentage of EV's.

And the costs of upgrading the capacity of whole electrical grids is so enormous that no utility could afford to do it - and it would take decades. Who would finance the upgrade, all for a world of EV's that is "inevitable" according to some? No nation could afford it.

So what's going to give/bend/break when EV load requirements exceed area system capacity? Who knows......?

Other ignored (or hidden) factors:

I. in the USA, coal and other fossil fuels are still a major source for electricity generation.....63% in 2016. So, it is a huge lie that EV's are green. They are actually only 37% green. They are 63% "polluting". So the greenies are actually deceiving themselves, and everyone else.

II. Analysis has been done of the costs and actual pollution created in the whole life-cycle of "Green" vehicles. Turns out that the actual total life-cycle costs of an EV are higher than gas/diesel/propane powered vehicles, AND the real-world pollution created by them (e.g., disposal of lithium-based batteries) is much greater than that of a fossil-fueled vehicle.

III. Practical - EV's require high-voltage systems. High-voltage is very hazardous, and can easily be life-threatening when EV's are in destructive accidents. "Jaws-of-Life" cannot be used in them for the danger of electrocution to first-responders. Plus there is are added factors of danger from fire and/or explosion.

I am not anti-green. I am anti-deception. And I believe the whole push for EV's has been based on a whole lot of deception.

But some day the reality will "hit the fan". And no one knows what will happen then. But it won't be pretty.

Ok, off my soap-box.

GN




Gator

I occasionally see an electric bike on the way to work. Not something I would want any more than an electric car.

I laughed the when I saw the Tesla with gull wing doors pull up in the rain at the grocery store. All I could visualize was the door opening with the roof covered in snow.

Back to the electric vehicle thing. IF you do any long distance traveling how do you do it with an electric vehicle? They have limited range and cannot be 'refilled' at the pump in 10 minutes.

Then there is the cost of replacement batteries.

Nope not for me.

K
 

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Apparently Ewan and Charlie are doing a long way up trip on Harley Livewires Argentina to LA . Should make interesting viewing when they make the program . Maybe Harley are hoping for a similar effect to what their long way round had for BMW GS .
 

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I personally would never buy an electric bike, putting aside the limited range, massive cost etc, they just don't appeal to me at all.
Probably like most people the engine is a massive part of the decision on which bike I choose to ride, if we were all just happy with a standard "motor" then why are there so many different types of engine configuration and sizes to choose from?
Electric motors have their place, in fact I work on machines crammed full of servo motors and they are very impressive, but I don't feel passionate about them and wouldn't want one powering my bike, same as I wouldn't want a petrol engine running my fridge or washing machine.:grin2:

Now my car is a different story, I'd change to an electric one tomorrow if they were the same price. I know some people are equally passionate about their cars and I used to be years ago, but now it's just a means of getting from a to b and I don't really care what drives it along the road.

I just can't see see who they are going to appeal to, certainly not the majority of existing bike owners, and are they really going to attract new people to biking just because they're electric, you still have all the same downsides, safety, practicality, weather etc as a petrol bike.

And before people bring up the t word, torque, if that's so important why are we not all riding around on the most powerful bike for sale. Same as all the videos on YouTube showing drag races or smack Downs as our American friends like to call them, showing the latest electric bike beating some top of the range petrol model, I don't give a s***, one trick ponies, same as tesla's.
 

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When they first released the car, Nissan gave me a brand new Leaf to test and blog about for a couple of weeks. The range was supposed to be 100 miles but the best I could get in reasonable conditions (commute to work, shopping, school run etc) was 65ish. Even when I experimented with being super careful (gentle throttle, low speeds, no aircon, no driving after dark etc) I couldn't quite get 80 miles range. God only knows how they can quote 100. It all meant a lot of careful planning around where I was when close to the end of range. Only once did I hit the emergency reserve mode and limped home the last 5 miles.

I also owned a Riva G-Wiz for a while but don't tell anyone.....
 

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As a retired engineer I have to laugh at the rhetoric surrounding electric vehicles. Same goes for "self driving" vehicles. Yes, they work to a limited degree. No not.going to become main stream in the foreseeable future. The reason I say this is, not that the vehicles cannot be developed. The elephant in the room is the infrastructure. Let's say the block where you live has 20 homes. Everyone just loves the new Whatzit electric. The Whatzit dealer just cannot keep them in stock. They are selling like hotcakes on Sunday morning. Problem is each one of the 20 homes on your block will have to upgrade thier electric panel, the drop coming from the pole, the transformers on the poles will need to be upgrades. Clear back to the powerplant. The shift from gasoline to electric has consequences. What about the poor Whatzit dealer where you bought your shiny new "roller skate". He has to have at least 200 Whatzits in stock at all times to keep up with the demand ! How about HIS electric meter, bill etc. Hard to sell a new Whatzit if it's battery is dead when you neighbor comes in to buy his new status symbol.

You go to work the next day after you bought Whatzit and have to find a place to park. Must have a charging station so you will have enough amp hours to get home. Now I worked in one of those highrise buildings in downtown Los Angeles. We had 7 floors of underground parking ! How many chargers are THEY going to need for new Whatzits ? How much are they going to have to upsize thier electric meter, wiring, etc ? You think they are going to let you charge your Whatzit for free after putting out all that budget on infrastructure upgrades ? And thier electric bill to DWP is killer! "Gee I was only paying $100 a month to park my rusty old Chevy !" Yea folks. There ARE flaws in the idea of electric vehicles :D. ...J.D.
 

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Thanks for the thoughtful insights- I would think that the advent of the I/C- powered auto back at the turn of the 20th century must have posed similar questions at one time...gasoline?? Where do I get that??- it's all about infrastructure, and the needs we will have to adapt to with the coming gains to be made by EVs. We had use of a Tesla Model 3 in northern California for two weeks this past May- the AWD, long range version, and I very impressed not only with the range, advertised as 310 miles..I drove it "enthusiastically" and "range anxiety" was usually kicking in at around 250 miles- this is running A/C, with a heavy foot.. also with the abundance of charging facilities- granted, this is NorCal, and Teslas are literally everywhere, but we were never lacking range and the eventual ability to charge very conveniently. I'd love to own one here, as we have a 10Kwh solar panel system on our home, essentially free juice, but the acquisition cost is admittedly a bit out of my reach, even with a son who is employed by them...

some stats:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41191

and an interesting bike being offered by Zero:

https://hiconsumption.com/2020-zero-motorcycles-dsr-black-forest-edition/
 

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I am sure as times go by some of these things will grow more practical. Same goes for solar. But you have to prorate the installation in to your utility bills. Someday, if I live that long, I may find it financially feasible to go solar. Not at this time though. My electric bill for my 1800 sq.ft. home runs between $30-$100 a month depending on the weather. There is a lot to consider with these decisions. ...J.D.
 

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Difficult to ever see electric vehicles being practical in the UK with thousands of terraced houses with the front door right beside the road and no garaging or drive to park on. Many householders are parking hundreds of yards from their house. In my area, there is nowhere to put a charger roadside. My son had a Nissan leaf come in as a part exchange to a main dealer. It had been used 5 years. Its range was 10 miles on an all night charge. Battery cost is 5 thousand pounds and car is worth nothing. went to the crusher after paying for it to have the battery decommissioned and then the problem of how to dispose of the battery.
The electric motorcycles by Zero are being demonstrated locally and good quality. The Government contributes 4000 pounds as a subsidy so it costs around 16000 pounds. It has a fair range but only any use as a ride to work bike or afternoon ride. 5 years and it will be scrap like the cars. There is no infrastructure or generating capacity in the UK for electric vehicles. UK is currently building a new length of superfast railway. Of course, it is for diesel locos and no electric trains in the future. The idea to get people to use trains instead of cars so put on a giant diesel powered train. One day the future will allow these electric vehicles but not for some time yet.
I am using my flux capacitor vehicle more now though, its very fast but scorches the tarmac.
 

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If this had been out when I bought my Scrambler (just a few months ago), I would have gotten it. Look at how beautiful that bike is!
I bet your scrambler was much cheaper as well, you've got years of free petrol there, they usually forget that when they boast about the the running costs.
Must admit I haven't seen the newer bikes but from the few i have seen in the UK all the money goes on batteries and drivetrain, rest of the bike looks like cheap Chinese tat.:grin2:
 

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I am using my flux capacitor vehicle more now though, its very fast but scorches the tarmac.
This one has a Flux Capacitor Rambo.
320 horses @ 52,000 rpm, 1700 degree F exhaust.
It set light to the grass when he fired it up.
 

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