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Discussion Starter #1
I have said here a few times that the guy who did my BB kit told me the cams are hotter than the factory 1700's. So in other words there are 3 different cams for the Tbird....1600 cams, factory 1700 cams, and the cams that come in the 1700 BB kit. And that would be in order of mildest to hottest.

Now i can't assure anyone this is a fact, but after wondering if my mechanic was right about this i finally read at that "other place" where someone said his dealer told him the same thing. I can't imagine two separate unrelated sources saying the same thing if there wasn't some truth there. So assuming this is the case, for those who want max power the BB kit seems to be the way to go. It also would speak to why there has been at least one person who said they rode both the 1600 and factory 1700 (storm i believe) and said he noticed little difference. Another said his power commander equipped 1600 w/pipes is quicker than the 1700 he rode. Owning the BB kit equipped bike i can assure you theres no way on earth any of that would happen with mine, so it may well be the case that the storm and a few other limited run factory 1700's that are now gone (limited run) do have milder cams. Maybe someone with access to the triumph parts ficshe could see if they can figure out whether this is true.
 

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I initially rode the 1600, but bought the 1700. I did notice a difference, no it wasn't the difference between a moped and a Busa, but it was noticeable. I also have to admit, I've never ridden a BB kit bike, so can't compare the 2, but I can't come up with any logical reason why Triumph would use a different cam in the factory 1700 vs the BB 1700 kit. Not saying they don't, but without knowing more about the marketing aspect of the kit, I can't understand it. If it were hotter, I'd think they would sell the BB kit cam as a performance upgrade for the stock 1700 (maybe they do and I just haven't seen it). Unless I it was from an "official" source, I don't know how much is truth, how much is salesmanship and how much is just people wanting to think they have something better than the next guy. I would be interested to know if it was true.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Could be that the factory 1700 adheres to EPA regs better than the BB. I don't know. I'd like to get the definitive answer but i doubt we ever will. I figure two sources tho....why would 2 different sources just come up with this same idea ? So i'm leaning towards the likelihood it's true.
 

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I wouldn't surprised at all if this was true. What is available over the counter, and what leaves the factory as part of a production vehicle are two totally different things, and would not necessarily be subject to the same emission standards.
 

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Could be that the factory 1700 adheres to EPA regs better than the BB. I don't know. I'd like to get the definitive answer but i doubt we ever will. I figure two sources tho....why would 2 different sources just come up with this same idea ? So i'm leaning towards the likelihood it's true.
Just so happens I had a discussion with the service manager at my dealership last month about how Triumph produces their machines for the world market. Apparently the EPA comes in a distant second to some of the European countries regarding air pollution AND noise abatement. Our bikes leave the factory ready to be sold anywhere in the world. He told me that's why easier breathing (intake/exhaust with a tune) provides such a boost in performance.

Look what the Short TORS and fixing the seal on the air filter did for you. The Storm suffers from being built to meet the most restrictive standards. It makes sense that the BB cams would provide the best improvement in power. They were developed apart from a complete engine that has to meet emissions limitations. After all the factory is not held responsible if a rider/owner installs off road parts on their bikes and uses the machine on the street anyway.

It's funny that HD charges extra to buy a bike set up for the stricter state emissions standards rather than building all of their machines to meet them. I for one am glad to see them think that way. I'm tired of the many suffering for the whims of the few. The Soap Box has been vacated. :D

56R
 

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Discussion Starter #7
He's talking about how I had removed the seal around the filter mouth which forces the engine to suck air thru the ducts molded into the bottom of the seat. That allowed it to pull air directly in instead of thur the ducts giving it more airflow. I put it back because without it the bike does seem to have a tiny bit better high RPM performance, but it killed the low end torque. The loss of torque was much more of a loss then the bit of upper rpm performance, so i put the seal back. It also seems to have fixed my mileage issue where i was getting as low as 31 MPG. I've hit 40 twice since which is almost what i was getting when it was a 1600.

That said, i don't think it is because of emissions standards that they used that seal and duct. I believe while it may have a bit less flow at high RPM's, it's there because it created a smoother less turbulent airflow that works to create better low end.
 

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Its off the subject a bit but i was just reading about a seal/plate that replaces the stock one that you are talking about from thunderbike that they claim gives up to a 5bhp increase on a 1600. On the subject do you think they would change the tooling/grinding settings on the machines just to make hotter cams for the bb kit.?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Someone at the other forum tried the thunderbike bellmouth. He said it didn't make the power they said and removed it from his bike. As to cams, if you are asking whether TB will make a cam for the Tbird, i don't know. They are surely considering it if they aren't already in the process knowing them. But they are quite expensive. One thing that i suppose might keep them from doing it is the extra work and therefore cost it would take to add a decompressor at the end of the exhaust cam like the Tbird cams have. To be honest most of the performance stuff they make has never lived up to thier claims, so by a mile. Your best bet for cheap power is to buy the BB kit's cams only. (yes, they are available seperately) Then when it's time for your bike's valve adjustment (every 12k miles) ask them to install them. That way you would have spent the labor costs of valve adjustment anyways so it's like getting the cams installed w/o labor costs, as thy have to remove the cams for valve adjustment anyways. they may want to charge a bit more, but they shouldn't charge too much more. I think you'll get 50-75% of the BB kit's power that way, at least the HP if not torque. The kit is the way to go....it's worth it. But if you can't afford it the cams will get you close enough and they are only about $600.
 

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I meant would triumph change the tooling in the engine plant just to make bb cams. Unless it was a special run maybe. I have a bb kit in already so i would like to think they did.
 

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I meant would triumph change the tooling in the engine plant just to make bb cams. Unless it was a special run maybe. I have a bb kit in already so i would like to think they did.
They wouldn't have to change any tooling. I believe the cams come in to the factory as cast blanks. An operator would put the cam blank into a machine that grinds it according to what a computer tells it to. So they should easily be able to machine a different profile by simply changing the specs in the computer.
 

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Well thats kinda what i meant would they do it just for the bb kit. I guess the one way to find out would be to measure a stock 1700 cam and a bb cam and see if they differ.
 

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1700 cam

I have the 1700 cams (so far as I know they are the same cams as the BB kit) in my 1600 motor.
what I observed when I asked the dealer if they could get the parts was: they pulled up a screen (on the parts computer) that had the BB kit with part numbers. the parts numbers for the cams and the clutch springs where taken down and ordered. I will have to look but I must have a copy of the quote somewhere, it may have the part numbers on it.

I do have the original 1600 cams wrapped up in the packaging the 1700s came in (I assume they are the same as what is now in the bike)

When I get home I will try to see if I can locate those pn's. that will provide 2 out of the (maybe) 3 options here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
you need the storm cams part numbers to compare with since the storm is a factory 1700. But you will have to call a dealer and see if they will get you the p/n for the storm. Bike bandit uses thier own numbers, but they don't even have the storm listed anyways. This would be interesting and finally give us a definitive answer. I'm very curious myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
you need the storm cams part numbers to compare with since the storm is a factory 1700. But you will have to call a dealer and see if they will get you the p/n for the storm. Bike bandit uses thier own numbers, but they don't even have the storm listed anyways. This would be interesting and finally give us a definitive answer. I'm very curious myself.
 

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Interesting on the air filter rubber strip Daz. I took mine off 2 months before my brother without him knowing . For two months he couldnt keep up with me off the line or from 30-100. After I did his and he hit me for being a git , our bikes then went back to being identical in acceleration and top end .
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I used a home made seal actually, and i ordered a new one i have yet to get. So i may remove it before i put the new seal on and have a few rides w/o it again to see if it still seems like the top end isn't that much better w/o it. If it still seems like way more low end torque and not a big benefit on the top i'll install the new seal. But the torque seemed thru the roof when i put my home made seal on there. I mean it really seemed super strong. Oddly it no longer does and i'm not sure if thats because i got used to it or because the adaption eventually screwed me out of it. I'll soon know i suppose. But i'm definately getting better MPG with a seal in place.
 

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Yeah indeed mate all things need to be tested. Ill be interested when u get the new seal maybe theres a compromise to be had somewhere . My bro definatly noticed a substantial difference when we got back from the test ride he kept saying how he couldnt believe the difference . Luckily its an easy one to test by just slipping it back on on and off.

I do agree the top end is definatly better obviously due to the easier breathing but I havnt noticed any loss in torque down low but that might be just my uneducated seat of the pants evaluation.

Remember I have exactly the same set up as you with bb kit and short tors and the most important bit the blue white colour lol.

Keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes, the blue and white is definately the best performance tweak there is. :D On a related and serious note, did you see that guy's black storm that he posted at the other forum that he had a white strip put on? I gotta tell you, thats now my fav color ! I always loved the black/white combo, but i didn't realize HOW much i would on the bird's scheme. Looks awesome, far better than the plain black which is actually my least fav i think. Only thing is, as much as i like it i would pass at tha chance to swap tank and fenders with him because black is the worse color once it ages. You can never get that new beautiful look back once it's been cleaned a few times and the scratches set in. Otherwise i might be considering having mine painted, thats how much i like it !
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just thought of something druade....you are running the stock #20310 1700/TORs tune aren't you? if so, try dizze's 1st tune, the one thats WITH cat. Thats what i'm running. It's pretty strong. Does eat more fuel tho, at least on mine.
 
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