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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had a 2009 T100 on the dyno yet. If so, would it possible to tell me the following:

power @7500 rpm
Air temp for the dyno run

And if you know your altitude, it would also me useful - thanks.
 

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Yes, my 2009 EFI 50th Anniversary:

64.1 HP with NH togas, 67.7 HP with NH Togas and the PowerCommander
71*F, 37%RH, 262' MSL

Dick
 

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Excellent! Perhaps you could post a scan of the dyno run in the "dyno run" sticky at the top of the forum? There is an EFI dyno run up there by the way.
 

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Will do - I'm in Taiwan for a few days, but will scan and post it when I return to SoCal next week. I had hoped to get a dyno run in on the bike dead stock, but didn't have time to remove the Togas and reinstall the stock pipes before the PC install and mapping.

Dick
 

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I'm really impresed with those numbers. That's my stock bonnie at the crank. It's amazing that a computer can analyze your fuel/air ratio hundrends of times a second to keep you in the best mixture for that application. I guess us old Carby boys will just have to brag that we're better tuners the old school way. We also rarely get it right and settle for the least of all evils.
Now you made me want an EFI.
 

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I really didn't want to like the EFI because I've been tuning Triumph vertical twins for more than 40 years and know my way around carb tuning and point ignitions. As nicely as my carefully tuned carb T100's run, the EFI bike is better. I will admit, however, that the stock EFI bike didn't please me in low speed throttle twitchiness, but the PowerCommander dialed all of the bad out and makes for a really sweet and smooth running bike. I've run the 2009 EFI bike against my California 2007 T100 and the EFI bike is definitely quicker and will outrun my 07 - with riders of equal weight and experience. Both have NH Toga exhausts, 19T c'shaft sprockets and AI removed - a fair comparison. When it breaks I won't be able to fix it though :>((

Dick
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, my 2009 EFI 50th Anniversary:

64.1 HP with NH togas, 67.7 HP with NH Togas and the PowerCommander
71*F, 37%RH, 262' MSL

Dick
Woot. Thanks. My math (a bit rusty) was suggesting it should have been 60.77bhp dynamic power @ 20C, so that means I am only 3bhp out. I had to guess the squish and timing for the bike.
 

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Yes - it was rear wheel hp as measured on a Dynojet dynomometer.

Dick
 

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There is no way a stock bike with pipes made 67 hp on the rear wheel you better find a new dyno guy.
 

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Sounds quite big numbers. My Scrambler was bone stock 42rwhp and after quite a lot of tuning 61rwhp.
 

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Well the british customs dyno shows 50 torque and 65 RWHP airbox removed with preds and remap. Maybe DKreidel has removed his airbox too - he never said it was pipes only (at least that's how I read it), so maybe there were some other mods too?
 

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I was talking to another fellow a few days ago with a '08 carburetted Bonnie. He had approached me to check out my new '09 Anniversary model. We were both curious about performance comparisons between the new EFI Bonneville and his '08. He had TORS, AI removed and re-jet. I have NH Togas, re-map and otherwise stock. We tried accelerating against each other from a 10 mph rolling start. My bike was clearly faster from the start to when we shut off at about 85. At 85 he said I was about 5 bike lengths ahead. We repeated the contest 3 times with similar results each time.
I almost forgot to mention I weigh 260 and he weighs 190.
 

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It's amazing that a computer can analyze your fuel/air ratio hundrends of times a second to keep you in the best mixture for that application. I guess us old Carby boys will just have to brag that we're better tuners the old school way. We also rarely get it right and settle for the least of all evils.
Now you made me want an EFI.
No, no, no!!!

Us "carby boys" can also get real-time A/F readings by installing an A/F ratio gauge.
By this means we can get it very very close to (if not perfectly) right, with no evils involved!!

There's one or two threads here on exactly how much of an aid it can be to tuning, fueling and jetting.
Take a look!

V.
 

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Well the british customs dyno shows 50 torque and 65 RWHP airbox removed with preds and remap. Maybe DKreidel has removed his airbox too - he never said it was pipes only (at least that's how I read it), so maybe there were some other mods too?
well maybe so but you need to do alot to a stock pistoned bonnie to get 67hp more then a air box and remap thats 6 more hp then brit customs shows on that sheet without the air box and you can bet that was the best running efi bike they have put it on.look at it this way thats 17 more hp the most bone stock motors .
 

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EFI is better than carb, that is a fact. However, biggest benefit is that it can provide ( correctly set ) best mixture on wide range which is challenging with carbs.

I af ratio is correct wide open with carbs or EFI the difference is minimal to power if air volume is the same.

Biggest difference comes with EFI;s capability to handle big throttle bodies without loss on low rpm ( EFI does not need vacuum to make mixture like carb ). However I have understood that Triumph twins have 36mm throttle bodies like carureted models.
 

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Because fuel is injected under high pressure in a fuel injected system it stands to reason the fuel droplets are smaller and more thourally atomized with incoming air. This allows for less fuel dropping out (separation from air) and clinging to the sides of the intake runners. When fuel is not completely atomized with air, raw fuel dribbles into the combustion chamber, especially at low engine speeds. Poorly atomized fuel doesn't burn completely in the combustion chamber resulting in reduced power output and increased emissions. Concerns over emissions is why EFI is being installed on everything that burns gasoline. I'm guessing our lawn mowers will soon be fuel injected as well ;)
It's true that well tuned carburettors can make as much power as EFI in high air flow conditions but it's much more difficult to make them perform as well as EFI at part throttle or during low engine speed operation when intake air flow is minimal.
 

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well with ether efi or carbs you got to have more airflow to make more hp.Thats what holds ether efi or carb bonnie motors back.thats why i find it hard to belave a stock efi bike is putting 67hp to the rear wheel.42mm flat slide carbs flow way more then 36mm throttle boddies and they do just about as good of job at wot as efi bikes do.They wont make 67hp on a stock motor with pipes and a air box on a dyno thats telling the truth.Anything much over low 60hp starts costing big money and lots of work on our motors.I know i been there and didnt even get a t-shirt lol.
 

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I agree.
To add more fuel you've also got to be able to add more air. Many people think running an engine rich will make more power when, to a certain extent, the opposite is true. A leaner running engine makes more heat. Heat equals horsepower. Too much heat will also turn your engine into a lump of junk metal though so good judgement is called for.
I know most of you guys with hot rodded Bonnevilles are running big cams, more cubes and head work. To those unaware, the whole reason for any of this is to ingest more air (and fuel). Cams and head work that allow the engine to breathe better also allow it to be run at higher RPM's which in turn pulls more air and fuel through the engine. More air + fuel and more power strokes per minute = MORE HP.

During my life I've been through this whole process so many times with so many vehicles that I am content to leave my '09 Bonneville stock. When I want to ride faster, I just grab a different motorcycle. ;) I still really enjoy messing with my supercharged V-8's though :D
I love that sound! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I generally tune my bikes by sight and sound (thats how I was taught) and generally get it about right, not a fan of using electronics.

However, one thing that people who have carb bikes probably wont be taking into account is that EFI based machines usually run higher gas velocities on the intake side which usually results in more mix in the cylinder, that along with air injectors generally makes a big difference.

65bhp is what I am hearing with the 2009 bonnie from other people as well. Also, I believe that triumph offer two types of pipe. I have the standard ones on mine, but I am told the noiser ones are good for another 4bhp or so.

If aftermarket pipes are indeed being run on the bike referenced above, then 60bhp dynamic would be about right for the stock machine.
 
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