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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone, I am a newcomer to the site. Tomorrow I pick up my new Claret & silver '09 T100. Feels like Christmas Eve, come on tomorrow!!!!

I have seen "non AI" in the signature block of a few members. I presume this to mean "no air injection" as opposed to "no artificial insemination"...

That said, what is the issue with the air injection on these bikes?

Respectfully,
David
 

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Welcome, the first question is where are you located as this influences the likelihood of whether or not your bike has a pre-cat or not. In my opinion, if the bike has a pre-cat you should leave the AI intact. Also if you have stock silencers they will also have a cat so removing the AI should not be considered.

There are other good and effective performance mods that can be carried out prior to AI removal, such as after market silencers i.e. Triumphs own, Norman Hyde Togas (excellent) or various others - a good sticky on exhausts exists.

Some of us have gone with different maps, other retain stock and have had very good results, some switch to a power commander or tuneboy - mine runs great with NH togas, bellmouth and the arrow 2 into 1 re-map- a medium cost solution. You should run for a while with the stock configuration to give yourself a baseline to work from while you read up on the back threads on efi bikes.

You have lots of back reading to do and many will give advice - good luck.
 

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Can of Worms

You have no idea what a can of worms you're opening with the AI question. On a new 09 Bonnie, there are several items to consider that are more important. Progressive front springs to stop front end dive, rear shocks, aftermarket pipes and possible airbox removal for more power. Let her breathe. You gain nothing from the AI removal as far as performance. As you get into your bike, come back to the AI issue at a later date. Please.:DeadHorse

You're gonna love your new bike.
Frank
 

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I don't view this issue as a can of worms by any stretch but it isn't straight forward as indications are European and not US bikes have pre-cats in the headers which may influence your decision. You need to post where you live in your profile to help with further direction. AI doesn't influence performance that much so as mentioned, no urgency to remove it. I just removed it from my US bike and wrote a DIY to help others with a hotrodder's heart that are so inclined who really don't like AI on their motorcycle for a number of reasons. Have a look:
http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-tec...jection-be-gone-diy-2009-efi-bonny-thrux.html


A suggestion to help in your decision process and grow our collection of data as generally the first step is to replace the silencers....when you remove them, run a flexible hose or even coat hanger up from the silencer end of the header to deduce presence of an obstruction at the weld seam which would be a pre-cat if your bike has them. US bikes don't seem to have such an obstruction which has been confirmed by a borescope and placing a chain down the header on another member's bike. All that have weighed in from Europe that have checked suggest they have pre-cats.

Enjoy your new bike with or without AI...they are great bikes.
George
 

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AI makes accessing the spark plugs difficult.

its a bit like having an appendix, completely useless and just something else to go wrong.
removing it is simple.
although it's removal doesnt help performance one iota, it declutterises by removing unneccessary junk
 

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AI makes accessing the spark plugs difficult.

its a bit like having an appendix, completely useless and just something else to go wrong.
removing it is simple.
although it's removal doesnt help performance one iota, it declutterises by removing unneccessary junk
I don't agree that its completely useless on efi bikes that have any kind of cat whether pre or main. In these cases it prevents the cats from blocking and unless you you know for certain whether or not your bike has a pre - cat it may not be a good idea to remove the AI given the damage that could be caused.

At this stage no-one here knows whether the ceramic pre-cats will fail (eventually) and collapse blocking the headers with the AI removed.

There are recent lengthy threads discussing this issue - please read before removing the AI on any efi bike.
 

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I don't agree that its completely useless on efi bikes that have any kind of cat whether pre or main. In these cases it prevents the cats from blocking and unless you you know for certain whether or not your bike has a pre - cat it may not be a good idea to remove the AI given the damage that could be caused.

At this stage no-one here knows whether the ceramic pre-cats will fail (eventually) and collapse blocking the headers with the AI removed.

There are recent lengthy threads discussing this issue - please read before removing the AI on any efi bike.
assuming it has EFI which I suppose it has being '09 and not old stock, and assuming it has a pre cat.
a work colleague of mine purchased an EFI model last month, however it doesnt any catalytic converter of any sort.
 

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assuming it has EFI which I suppose it has being '09 and not old stock, and assuming it has a pre cat.
a work colleague of mine purchased an EFI model last month, however it doesnt any catalytic converter of any sort.
Yes, thats exactly what I said - ANY bike with a pre or main cat - which is all efi European bikes at the very least and there seems to be some confusion over bikes elsewhere - I think you have to be careful providing advice to folks that may result in bike failure or loss of warrenty.
 

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While loss of warranty is a good point, it is unconfirmed that the pre-cats would be spoiled by removing AI. Yes, raw fuel generally does not agree with cats of any kind...plugging pre-cats would be the result of copius amounts of fuel + high temperature however it is unclear if an EFI bike would have this recipe with pre-cats and without AI.
JohnyC in Scotland is testing this right now. He removed his AI and has pre-cats. The thing about pre-cats at any level is they have to impede flow by virtue of their presence. Many performance oriented motorcyclists at some point eliminate them and a consideration if again one isn't concerned about violating warranty or not meeting emission test requirements.
George
 

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While loss of warranty is a good point, it is unconfirmed that the pre-cats would be spoiled by removing AI. Yes, raw fuel generally does not agree with cats of any kind...plugging pre-cats would be the result of copius amounts of fuel + high temperature however it is unclear if an EFI bike would have this recipe with pre-cats and without AI.
JohnyC in Scotland is testing this right now. He removed his AI and has pre-cats. The thing about pre-cats at any level is they have to impede flow by virtue of their presence. Many performance oriented motorcyclists at some point eliminate them and a consideration if again one isn't concerned about violating warranty or not meeting emission test requirements.
George
I agree George that its unconfirmed whether removing the AI will result in blocked cats. My only beef, is when people are encouraged to remove them without pointing out the possible consequences, such as cats blocking and warranty issues - I know of course that you always include as much explanation of such matters as is required - but not all others do.
On my own bike I have experimented with the AI removed and then re-installed after a couple of days and to be honest I could barely detect any difference in throttle response or in any other way. The greatest difference I have seen (after silencers/intake mods) is the arrow 2 into1 map - brilliant with my set up, no snatchy throttle at all now that the map seems fully adapted.

So to me, as AI removal makes no performance difference once the Arrow map is installed, the only advantage is less clutter and easier plug access - which may well be reason enough to remove it once the cat issue is clarified.
Phil
 

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Well said Phil. There isn't much upside to removing AI in my experience either but with base map at least it does eliminate all backfiring and popping on my Tors equipped EFI bike and of course being a US spec bike, pretty sure mine doesn't have the pre-cats so an easier decision for me. With pre-cats I would either try to figure out how to remove the pre-cats or reinstate AI as you have.

Mods as you know are a slippery slope. There is a relentless instinct among motorheads toward minimalism and the pursuit of horsepower and why things like AI and pre-cats fly in the face of what we know contributes to the best performing bike....not unlike exhausts and airboxes. You make the clear logical argument but you know pre-cats are in opposition to performance and my guess is at some point you will revisit removing them and AI unless you feel the warranty and perhaps emission inspections would negate this. No doubt like many bafflectomies have performed there will be "catectomies" performed in ensuing months if not weeks.
I think I need to have the Arrow 2 into 1 map installed next as you have.
Cheers,
George
 

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Well said Phil. There isn't much upside to removing AI in my experience either but with base map at least it does eliminate all backfiring and popping on my Tors equipped EFI bike and of course being a US spec bike, pretty sure mine doesn't have the pre-cats so an easier decision for me. With pre-cats I would either try to figure out how to remove the pre-cats or reinstate AI as you have.

Mods as you know are a slippery slope. There is a relentless instinct among motorheads toward minimalism and the pursuit of horsepower and why things like AI and pre-cats fly in the face of what we know contributes to the best performing bike....not unlike exhausts and airboxes. You make the clear logical argument but you know pre-cats are in opposition to performance and my guess is at some point you will revisit removing them and AI unless you feel the warranty and perhaps emission inspections would negate this. No doubt like many bafflectomies have performed there will be "catectomies" performed in ensuing months if not weeks.
I think I need to have the Arrow 2 into 1 map installed next as you have.
Cheers,
George
You're right about the slippery slope and mods, I've spend thousands on my airhead BMW and countless hours (and a crank balance and new high performance pistons are coming soon), but the end result is a bike that really surprises people - the wolf in sheep's clothing, very fast and handles like a dream. I suppose thats why I'm a little more reserved with the T100 and happy to take my time with the mods - when I want to go a little wild I take the beemer out , when I want to just enjoy the ride I go on the T100.

By the way another advantage of the Arrow 2 into 1 tune is that fuel consumption is better than the Tors by at least 5 MPG (UK measures)- have checked it with 3 tanks of fuel.

The other thing that is getting a bit of a concern over here is where they go with the emission's regs - I heard some talk (speculation at the moment) about introducing Exhaust gas analysis into our annual test - which could be a real problem, another reason I am just holding back a little. I would certainly like to knock the cat out and remove the AI - got to be better if it breathes - but I'm getting patient in my dotage.
Phil
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks everyone

Being that she has a sum total of 61 kms on the odometer, she is going to remain stone stock for a period of time.

We shall see what happens after a while. The Bonnie has far more guts than my last bike, a Yamaha YX600 or Radian which I felt had plenty of power (52-56 HP) for a sane person.

The Bonnie weighs only 15 lbs more but has about one more unit of HP and almost twice the torque, 26 ft/lbs vs. 50 ft/lbs for every additional lb so it feels much quicker then the Yamaha.

Love her so far!
 

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Yes, thats exactly what I said - ANY bike with a pre or main cat - which is all efi European bikes at the very least and there seems to be some confusion over bikes elsewhere - I think you have to be careful providing advice to folks that may result in bike failure or loss of warrenty.
Phild28

David's original post doesnt mention anything about EFI or cats

Hi everyone, I am a newcomer to the site. Tomorrow I pick up my new Claret & silver '09 T100. Feels like Christmas Eve, come on tomorrow!!!!

I have seen "non AI" in the signature block of a few members. I presume this to mean "no air injection" as opposed to "no artificial insemination"...

That said, what is the issue with the air injection on these bikes?


but my bike being one of these bikes with the air injection removed for the reasons as I originally stated, and 30,000 kilometers later with no detrimental side affects, thus answered his query accordingly. also my bike doesn't have cats

if explaining what I've done is taken as advice to remove AI then so be it.

the only advice I give is to research a subject before performing mods.
 

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Phild28

David's original post doesnt mention anything about EFI or cats

Hi everyone, I am a newcomer to the site. Tomorrow I pick up my new Claret & silver '09 T100. Feels like Christmas Eve, come on tomorrow!!!!

I have seen "non AI" in the signature block of a few members. I presume this to mean "no air injection" as opposed to "no artificial insemination"...

That said, what is the issue with the air injection on these bikes?


(but my bike being one of these bikes with the air injection removed for the reasons as I originally stated, and 30,000 kilometers later with no detrimental side affects, thus answered his query accordingly. also my bike doesn't have cats

if explaining what I've done is taken as advice to remove AI then so be it.

the only advice I give is to research a subject before performing mods.)



I think the only important issue is that the OP gets enough info to make the best decision for his model an 09 T100 (all are efi - most have cats or pre cats) and doesn't start pulling fittings off the bike that may cause damage without knowing the possible consequences. - I'm happy that this exchange of views has ensured that. I'm even more happy that we can do that it in a reasonably civil manner.
Phil
 
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