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Discussion Starter #21
domfergo,

The valve train on these engines is quite noisy so your ticking may just be part of that. It's obvuously not very loud so maybe you just begain to notice it while listening for any problems after your work.

Without hearing your bike I can't say for sure but if all your clearances checked out and you re-assembled everything correctly then it's probably nothing major. Any unusual noise needs investigation though so see if you can figure out where it's coming from to decide if it's a growing problem or just normal operation.
 

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Great writeup champ87!!!! I'm right about to pop the valve cover off, but would like to ask two questions. That valve cover seems like it was put on with super glue. Did you have any problems getting it off and do you have any recommendations for its removal? The other question is how did you get a torque value on the right rear bolt? I had to use an allen wrench to get mine off.
Thanks,
Rod
 

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Comments and another Question

Notes:
Measurement revealed only 3 valve clearances out of range, each with too much clearance. The differences were small so it was tempting to ignore them and leave everything alone. However, they were out of spec and I knew that it wouldn’t get any better. That would bug me until my next major maintenance session.

Required thickness for replacement shims is calculated as follows:
Measured Clearance + Shim Thickness – Target Clearance = Required Shim Thickness.
For Inlet Valve 6 the calculation was 0.203 + 2.649 – 0.150 = 2.702. For that valve the new shim needs to be 2.70mm (a shim marked 270). For calculation my target clearance was mid-point of the range specified in the manual. That gave me a target of 0.15mm for inlet valves and 0.25mm for exhaust valves

The valve shims are marked to indicate thickness. “270” indicates a thickness of 2.700mm. A shim 2.475mm thickness is marked “248”. Replacement shims are available in 0.025mm increments from 1.70mm to 3.00mm.
I like your methodology. Would it be possible to get the original shim sizes? I found on my FJR that there were only two or three sizes coming from the factory. Rather than getting a shim kit which come in with 3 shims at .05mm intervals over a range that makes many of them useless. You can get shim packs with 5 shims at 6 specific sizes. You may have to buy two packs but they will all be in a useful range. I did something similar to what you did as well. I only had one shim that was very slightly our of range, only a bit tight. I changed four exhaust shims to make all exhaust valves to as close to the center as possible. Right or wrong, IMO, making everything uniform helps. Now, if I only had one that was very slightly out of range on the loose side, I would have left it alone. Loose will eventually tighten up and doesn't do any harm. Tight can cause damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
That valve cover seems like it was put on with super glue. Did you have any problems getting it off and do you have any recommendations for its removal?
I made sure that all obstructions (cables, wires, pipes) were moved aside. To release the cam cover on my Sprint I just tapped it all around with a rubber mallet. In my write-up I described it as a "light tap". In reality it was several firm knocks but I was cautious with my description because I didn't want to encourage anyone to beat their cam cover to death!

As well as the bond between gasket faces I guess the SAI dowels between cover and head could hinder removal if they're a tight fit in their holes. I didn't have a problem there but a little bit of movement as the cover is lifted should release them.

The other question is how did you get a torque value on the right rear bolt? I had to use an allen wrench to get mine off.
I don't know about your Tiger but on my Sprint I had clear access to tighten the bolts. I used a 1/4" drive and extension bar on my torque wrench.

Would it be possible to get the original shim sizes?
Do you mean the actual sizes that were installed in my bike? I'm not sure how that would help you as your bike will have different sizes. Triumph shims are available in 0.025mm increments from 1.70mm to 3.00mm. I attached a list with part numbers in Post #9 of this thread.

As mentioned in the notes section 9.5mm diameter. is a common size so a Yamaha, Suzuki or Honda dealer would most likely have the correct size shims. Alternatively you could buy a kit with a range of sizes as Ghopki1 suggested in this thread. I believe the kit is Part # HCSHIM02 from Hot Cams but check that if you intend to buy.
 

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Thanks for your response.
I have already cleaned about everything out of the way. Didn't notice you had a Sprint. Different frames answers the rr bolt question. Not sure if I have 1/4" allen socket but even that would be a tight fit on a Tiger.

The reason I asked about your original shim size is that a kit has 47 sizes of 3 shims each from 1.20 to 3.50mm. A pack has 6 sizes with 5 shims each for 30 total shims. For a particular bike, especially on the first shim change, you probably won't have more than a range of stock from the factory base sizes of 3 to six sizes and they will be close. Maybe you might have differences between ex and in, don't know on the triple. The FJR did not, they were all very close and I covered it with one pack. With modern machine tolerances I don't see a one at 1.20 and another at 3.50 with the rest scattered in between.

I'm hoping to pop the top tonight. I don't trust myself with brute force. Never learned to tread lightly :D
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I really don't see how this information helps you. You can't assume you'll have the same and you'll only know what (range) you need when you pull the cam cover and measure what's in your bike. Anyway, here it is.

For mine the inlet side were:
  • 3 shims @ 2.650mm
  • 3 shims @ 2.700mm
On the exhaust side there were:
  • 1 shim @ 2.425mm
  • 3 shims @ 2.450mm
  • 2 shims @ 2.475mm
I bought 4 shims - 2.425, 2.525, 2.675 & 2.750mm.

Why did I need 4 shims when only 3 valves were out of spec? Well, I wanted to get all my clearances as close as possible to each other so even though only 3 needed adjustment I actually changed 7 using new shims and swapping around exisiting shims.
 

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I really don't see how this information helps you. You can't assume you'll have the same and you'll only know what (range) you need when you pull the cam cover and measure what's in your bike. Anyway, here it is.

For mine the inlet side were:
  • 3 shims @ 2.650mm
  • 3 shims @ 2.700mm
On the exhaust side there were:
  • 1 shim @ 2.425mm
  • 3 shims @ 2.450mm
  • 2 shims @ 2.475mm
I bought 4 shims - 2.425, 2.525, 2.675 & 2.750mm.

Why did I need 4 shims when only 3 valves were out of spec? Well, I wanted to get all my clearances as close as possible to each other so even though only 3 needed adjustment I actually changed 7 using new shims and swapping around exisiting shims.
I fully understand why you changed 7, did the same with my FJR and may do the same with Tiger. You may want to look at www.maultechatv.com. It has a table and calculator for figuring out the right size shim. It's kind of a no brainer but some guys have an aversion to math :D Let me explain what I'm talking about using your data. I'm looking to buy enough shims to keep on hand for any future changes, not just what I need now. On the inlet side you have 2.65 and 2.70 shims and the range is 2.40 to 2.50. I'm looking at .05 mm intervals. Since a Hot Cams Kit gives you only three at one particular setting it is possible that you won't have enough shims to complete the job. That would have happened on my FJR.
A kit has 47 sizes at .05mm intervals, 3 shims per size. The kit costs about $80 but you will be very unlikely to use 35 sizes/ 105 shims. A refill pack costs $36, has six sizes and 5 shims of each size. If I were ordering blind I could get the two packs that cover from 2.40 to 2.95 for about $72 and have a much higher probability of having shims that I need on hand. Once I measure mine, I will know which to order. The final factor in which I choose will be how tight or loose things look. Like I said before, IMO it much better to err on the side of loose than tight.

P.S. - All the shim talk is now mute. All valves well within specs. Time to button Tony back up.
Thanks for all the assistance.
 

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Champ87, I too appreciate the write-up. I'm preparing to tackle my very first valve inspection/adjustment; between your write-up, the shop manual, and misc online articles, I'm starting to feel comfortable with the procedure.
I'm going to ask a couple silly questions:

  • Can someone clarify the need for a piece of wood (or hosepipe) to wedge the chain tensioner blade? What exactly is the purpose and how large a piece of wood should I find?
  • Also, how many times can the cam cover gasket be used, or does it make sense to just replace it while I'm at it? Worse-case, I could just apply more RTV sealant though that stuff is a pain to clean up.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Can someone clarify the need for a piece of wood (or hosepipe) to wedge the chain tensioner blade? What exactly is the purpose and how large a piece of wood should I find?
For simply checking valve clearances you don't need the piece of wood. However, if you need to adjust any clearances the piece of wood will keep the tensioner blade in place when you remove the cam chain tensioner. If you remove the cams use a piece of wire to hold the chain up. That and keeping the tensioner blade in place will reduce the chances for the chain to drop off the bottom sprocket. If the chain does drop off the sprocket don't panic. It's easily fixed; you just align the mark on the crank and the camshaft alignment marks as described before you turn the engine.

You need a piece of clean wood that won't splinter. It needs to be quite small - maybe 1/4" square (6mm) and about 8" or 10'' long (200mm - 250mm). If you use hosepipe then a piece of garden hose the same length will work.



Also, how many times can the cam cover gasket be used, or does it make sense to just replace it while I'm at it? Worse-case, I could just apply more RTV sealant though that stuff is a pain to clean up.
Most likely there'll be no need to replace the cam cover gasket. Mine looked pretty durable to me. I don't know if they get hard and brittle as they age so I've no idea how many times you can re-use it. The gasket on my '06 was fine and yours should be good unless you damage it but you'd have to be a pretty useless human being to do that (IMNSHO).

Try to avoid RTV sealant. You don't need any excess squidging into your engine and blocking oilways. If necessary you can use a very thin smear to locate the gasket if it won't stay in place. Also the factory manual instructs you to use a small amount at the corners of the "half-moon" pieces that sit in the cylinder head cutouts. Be very careful; only use a drop at each corner. Preference would be for the sensor safe type although it shouldn't be getting into your exhaust anyway so maybe that's being excessively cautious.

Triumph was fairly generous in their use of sealer. Clean it off before applying new and refitting the cam cover.


Finally, while you're doing all this, check to see if you still have the old style seals around the ignition coils. If so replace them or you may be struggling to remove rusty plugs some day soon.

 

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Wow, thank you for a very thorough and clear explanation! The pictures were an added bonus.

So literally, the wedge is to keep the blade in position in lue of the tensioner. (Sometimes take a few tries but eventually I get it.)

Fortunately, it appears I won't have to have to adjust anything. All vales were in spec, with only the first, second and sixth exhaust valves at the outside limit. My feeler gauge is in inches, but presuming .1mm = .004inch, and .30mm = .012inch, I had the following clearances:

1 = .007 / .012
2 = .006 / .012
3 = .006 / .010
4 = .007 / .010
5 = .007 / .010
6 = .006 / .012

Of course, I double-check my conversion and .012 inch is more accurately .305mm. Should I leave it, or go ahead and adjust? I have thing thing open and ready to go, so I'm guessing might as well do the adjustment. But with over 40K on the clock, it doesn't seem too bad.

I'll also be ordering the new seals, along with fresh set of plugs. Only one is showing similar corrosion yours showed in the pics, but can't hurt to just swap them out.

Again, your posting has really helped guide me on a somewhat intimidating project. I'm really happy to be doing this myself and learning something I've long had on my to-do list.
 

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Oh by the way, I was attempting to line up the T1 mark on the crankshaft inspection window and seems odd, but I cannot get the cam sprocket arrow indicators to line up if T1 is correctly orientated. If it's a bit left of center, the arrows line up on the cam sprockets.

Is this normal or something I should look to correct? Obviously if I end up adjusting the three clearances, now would be the time to address it.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Oh by the way, I was attempting to line up the T1 mark on the crankshaft inspection window and seems odd, but I cannot get the cam sprocket arrow indicators to line up if T1 is correctly orientated. If it's a bit left of center, the arrows line up on the cam sprockets.

Is this normal or something I should look to correct? Obviously if I end up adjusting the three clearances, now would be the time to address it.
If you didn't pull the cams and didn't remove the cam chain from the sprockets then there's no need to worry.

There's a photo in post #3 of this thread that show how my camshaft alignment marks were before I removed the cams. They didn't line up exactly as described in the manual but that's the way they came from the factory.
 

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No, this is the first valve adjustment done by me or anyone else on this bike, so it was definitely born this way. I didn't notice your picture because it looks pretty close, but I suppose aligning the cams isn't an exact science. More of a reference point than anything. Thanks again!
 

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One last question, I promise. When measuring the clearances, how tight is too tight for a particular feeler? In other words, if the feeler slips in smoothly but has no obvious play, is that sufficient, or keep increasing the thickness until you can't "jam" the next larger gauge?

I ended getting a new set of feelers with metric as I wasn't comfortable with doing the conversion myself and really want to do this right (that and I realized in some circumstances, the attack angle gave me a false sense of measurement). On one of the exhaust valves, it takes some effort to insert and remove the .305, but it does fit, though .275 feels just snug.

Or am I now picking nits and just get on with the bloody adjustment?
 

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One last question, I promise. When measuring the clearances, how tight is too tight for a particular feeler? In other words, if the feeler slips in smoothly but has no obvious play, is that sufficient, or keep increasing the thickness until you can't "jam" the next larger gauge?

Or am I now picking nits and just get on with the bloody adjustment?
I'm probably going to get some heat for saying this but for those of us who aren't totally anal about this, I recommend a go, no go method. By that I mean get a feeler that is as close to the minimum spec or a hair thicker. Then get one that is the max or a hair thinner. The min feeler should go and the max should not. If that happens you can button things up and go ride. If it fails then you need to get out more feels and determine what you have. We could do a poll but from what I have seen on 1050 forums most people don't have to change anything even at 24K. I said most, some do. IMO, if you are a tad too loose, you don't need to change anything either. Tight is where you can do some damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
.........if the feeler slips in smoothly but has no obvious play, is that sufficient, or keep increasing the thickness until you can't "jam" the next larger gauge?
That's pretty much it except you don't jam it in. You should just feel a bit of drag as you slide the gauge into the gap.

On one of the exhaust valves, it takes some effort to insert and remove the .305, but it does fit, though .275 feels just snug.
I would not pull the cams for that one. If there were others that needed adjustment I'd do that one too while the cams were out but otherwise I'd leave it alone.

...........for those of us who aren't totally anal about this, I recommend a go, no go method.
Mr DevilDog you are being way too logical. To be honest I don't see much wrong with that for those who "aren't totally anal". I am very fussy though so after going to all the trouble of getting in there to measure clearances I think it's worth a few extra minutes to narrow the measurements down to the level accuracy defined by the feeler gauge increments. That gives me a record of readings to compare each time I check clearances to see if they changed even if they're still within spec.
 

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Thanks DevilDog and Champ87. I did a little extra reading on the side, and educated myself that it's as you say: slight drag or snug fit, but don't man-handle it. I suppose it comes down to experience and a subtle hand.

That said, none of the ext valve clearance were beyond .279, so I'm going to call it good. I've got new coil seals ordered, and along with a fresh set of plugs, button her up until the next 20K miles.

Thanks for all the help, I feel a whole lot more comfortable with the procedure.
 

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NinjaRat, I have to say I admire the way you are going about gathering info to perform a job that you are not totally familiar with. You do your homework, then focus specifically on areas that need clarification, seek verification, and have avoided the usual blanket "how do I" question, and whining, and complaining about dealers and their prices.

You deserve congratulations. :welldone
 

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Mr DevilDog you are being way too logical. To be honest I don't see much wrong with that for those who "aren't totally anal". I am very fussy though so after going to all the trouble of getting in there to measure clearances I think it's worth a few extra minutes to narrow the measurements down to the level accuracy defined by the feeler gauge increments. That gives me a record of readings to compare each time I check clearances to see if they changed even if they're still within spec.
What I "recommended" isn't what I usually do because I tend to be anal at times too. When I did my last bike I found that all my intakes were in spec but near being tight. I took them all out got them as close to the same clearance as I could. Did it make a difference, not really, but it made me feel better :D. As I creep up in age, I prefer to wrench less and ride more. :)
 
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