Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone got any positive info about when the new abs version will be avilable. So far i have been told February and March. Just wondering if anyone has been given a more exact date.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
My dealer told me March. I ordered the non ABS and it is due here any day now. He talked me out of the ABS, said if I hadn't had one in the past, he wouldn't pay the extraf for it? Don't know why. He is a MSF instructor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
705 Posts
The DAS instructor who is training my wife has a GS1200 and had to insist that he did not want ABS on it because BMW tried very hard to include it.

My mate has a KTM 990 Adv and this has ABS. I've invoked it deliberatley to see what happens but I don't think I would benefit from it because I don't tend to use my brakes hard. Of course, they will help in some emergencies but Anti-Lock on a bike does not translate to Anti-Skid like it does with a car.

You can't do that unnatural slalom whilst heavy braking on a bike!

There are lots of bikers out there who swear by it though...

Jon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
ABS = no locked up rear tire when emergency braking which is the cause of most accidents in this situation.

-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Sorry about the long post but this article made my mind up for me. The full article can be found at http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html
I guess its in an emergency when you grab a handful of front brake,more so in the wet, that you are glad you paid out for the extra. Its a bit like insurance. You hope you never need it but your glad youve got it when you do.


Doin It In The Water
Our next set of tests involved water. The acceleration area (approximately 1400 feet long) was dry. As riders entered the 400 foot-long speed adjustment area (an area reserved to get the speed to an even 60 mph) they encountered water provided courtesy of an industrial hose. About 125 feet farther down the range a second hose kept the last half of our braking area, including the manhole cover, completely soaked. In all, approximately 380 feet of pavement (350 of which we could use for measurements) was thoroughly soaked.

No one in our test group actively practices wet-weather, maximum braking, which is about as average as you can get. Like the other non-ABS tests, each rider was instructed to brake as hard as they felt comfortable and to avoid crashing at all cost. (Refer to Figure 4)

Figure 4. Wet Pavement Braking over Sewer Cover *
(All measurements recorded with Yamaha FJ1200) **

Racer non-ABS 298 ft
w/ ABS 211 ft
Full ABS Control 193 ft

Mileman non-ABS 326 ft
w/ ABS 240 ft
Full ABS Control 201 ft

Road Rider non-ABS 278 ft
w/ ABS 202 ft
Full ABS Control 197 ft

Tourer non-ABS 350+ ft
w/ ABS 236 ft
Full ABS Control 210 ft

Mechanic non-ABS 350+ ft
w/ ABS 252 ft
Full ABS Control 209 ft

Newguy non-ABS 350+ ft
w/ ABS 215 ft
Full ABS Control 210 ft

*All braking distances expressed in feet from 60 mph
** Both the ABS BMW and ABS Honda ST were run using this same test and achieved similar results.


The results from our non-ABS stops were shocking. Three riders rode through all 350 feet of water-soaked pavement before stopping on a dry portion of road at the other end. Even Racer and RRider, the daredevils who skidded over the sewer cover during the dry pavement tests, got off the brakes long before crossing the wet sewer cover.

The improvements in stopping distances when riders counted on ABS were almost unbelievable group averaged 120-foot shorter stops! Not one of our riders on a non-ABS motorcycle could outstop an ABS machine. None were even close! Riders that had never been on an ABS motorcycle were amazed at the amount of traction available for braking before the ABS needed to take over.

With that information in hand, we ran a second non-ABS test but found that without the ABS safety, net, stopping distances were, on average, only 11 feet shorter than the first set of non-ABS tests. Every tester agreed that with knowing the ABS was there to catch them, pushing the braking envelope to the outer edge was not a problem for them.

In A Turn
Unfortunately, anti-lock brakes are not very effective while cornering. Ask an engineer and he'll get this far-away, glassy look and start talking about tire slip ratios, lean angles and traction coefficients. Roughly translated, it means this: The farther you lean over, the less traction is available for braking (or acceleration). Get on the brakes hard in a corner and long before either wheel lock, you'll find yourself sliding.

When a tire loses its grip, the slide is toward the outside of the turn. Getting off the brakes (or the throttle) may not be enough to regain directional control (the motorcycle is trying to go sideways, not forward, you'll need to help the process along by steering with the bars. It's a pretty intense maneuver.

So, if ABS can prevent wheel lock-ups, what's the problem in turns? Unfortunately, today's generation of ABS, though quite complex, does not account for lean angles. The same computer logic for straight-line braking (i.e., calibrated to allow near tire-smoking stops) does not apply when tilted over. Someday faster computers with more capacity to handle increasingly complex ABS programs, combined with faster hydraulics with the ability to regulate (not just modulate) brake line pressures, may be able to solve the problem.

Still, the ultimate answer, as one source hinted, may be the addition of lean-angle sensors and computers that completely take over the full-tilt braking chores. A solution that will take years of R & D to sort through, and even then will only happen if riders are willing to accept an increasing level of automation.

ABS Operation Over Other Hazards
Although we tested ABS on a variety of surfaces, braking problems could be broken down into two basic groups: Limited distance hazards (such as metal gratings, tar strips, a patch of sand, gravel, or dirt), and long-distance hazards (wet pavement and dirt roads).

Oil and grease created a unique problem. During one of our tests (run at 30 mph due to the location), while crossing a 13-inch patch of oil mixed with some grease and dirt, the tires picked up enough gunk to be a problem as the same spot came around on the next rotation, six feet down the road. After our Racer nearly lost it on a non-ABS Yamaha, we limited the test to ABS only. ABS didn't bat an eye at this challenge. It simply went through the gunk and cycled two to five times until the garbage scrubbed off the tires.

We also incorporated another test not on our original list. One of our BMW riders reported missing a stop sign on a rainy night. Not entirely unusual, except that the road ended (Illinois farm roads tend to end in T's quite often-a real problem if you're not alert) and he found himself on a farmer's lawn going 40 to 50 mph. To verify his claim of a "a very long, but controlled stop," we ran the ABS Yamaha and ABS BMW over a newly sodded, water-soaked lawn. While a series of passes would have been nice, no one was willing to let us destroy their lawn. We were limited to three test passes.

Next to ice, wet grass is about as slippery as it gets. Our reader was correct. Both the BMW and Yamaha models with ABS came to a nice, controlled stop in a reasonable distance. And yes, ABS does work on ice, too. Given that we didn't get our hands on the Yamaha until the end of March and the Honda until June, a comparison was not possible (besides, no one was really anxious to try it anyway). However, we did book some winter miles on a BMW K100LT-ABS. Winter riding also brought out another problem. In temperatures lower than -5 degrees F, the drag from the wheel bearing grease and the brake pads rubbing against the discs keeps the wheels from turning after ABS releases the brakes (on ice). That's not an engineering problem related to ABS, but rather a cold weather problem you should be aware of.

On dirt roads, ABS wasn't even flexing its muscles. Like the wet pavement tests, riders were amazed at how much traction was actually available. Gravel was the same story. Without the fear of a slide-out, you can actually feel the tires gripping against the tiny, loose rocks as they move around under the wheels. Now that is impressive!

In Conclusion
If we are to try to pick a winner of this "contest," based on both the stopping data and the testers' comments, it would have to be the Yamaha FJ1200 ABS. Though all the ABS systems worked extremely well, it was unanimously felt that the Yamaha system worked the smoothest and was the easiest to handle. The lever and pedal "feedback" were the least harsh and obtrusive on the FJ, and therefore probably less likely to disturb or frighten the rider into over-reacting during a high-stress, panic stop situation.

In the end, everyone could hardly believe just how good ABS really is. It's certainly not a sales gimmick. This is clearly the biggest advance in braking safety since the advent of the disc brake. Our group of testers had just one complaint: Why is ABS not available on more motorcycles?

At least part of the answer to that question lies in our own resistance to change and, in particular, to bikers' reluctance to abdicate any amount of control of their mounts to "technology." We're a fairly independent lot, and take a certain amount of pride in the fact that we regularly rely on our own abilities and talents to get ourselves out of trouble.

Still another part of the answer comes with the rather large cost of ABS. High-tech braking has a price, and it's one that is high enough to make most of us stop and think twice about purchasing it. BMW's system adds $1000 and 20 pounds to the equivalent non-ABS models. Honda's system weighs 11 pounds and raises the ST's price tag by $1900 (though to be fair, that also includes the Traction Control System, which we will test in a future issue). The Yamaha is the light-weight king at 9 pounds, adding $1200 to the FJ's retail price.

I guess in the end the only real question is not whether or not you can afford ABS, but can you afford to ride without it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Brilliant article.

Was once told by an instructor maximuim braking and/or grip is achieved just before you lose traction completely.

A theory I never really want to test, and couldn't quite get my head round, but it does seem to work in practice - the more you pin the fron down under braking the more you seem to be able to brake harder.

Anyway, does make me think ABS next tie round would be a plus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
I had ABS on the Beemer.

Never needed it in 30.000 miles of riding. I traded the Beeemer when the ABS started playing up.
Expensive to have the fault codes diagnosed, even more expensive to have the ABS repaired!

TF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Very good article and point well taken. I guess I am one of those that is "highly resistant to change", particularly when it comes to motorcycles. The Honda ST and the Yammy and BMW are heavy bikes and I would of course want all the stopping power I could get if I rode a bike in that weight class. My Bonneville and the new Tiger come in at just over 400lbs and I think the best advice is the "space between the ears" and riding within your limits and with control. Good thread and very informative, thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
On 2006-12-15 09:28, BTHUMPER wrote:
I think the best advice is the "space between the ears" and riding within your limits and with control.
This is a great philosophy until there is a pile up 10 car lengths ahead of you on the freeway and the difference between stopping in time and joining the melee is abs.

All of a sudden they are worth the extra cost, the extra weight, the extra hassle and the extra everything else they may cause.

-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,150 Posts
Sorry completely disagree!!,i've had loads of instances were i wished a was a better rider but never one were i wished i'd had ABS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I've had ABS on multiple BMW's and never used it except once. On that occassion I was in a serious situation on a gravel road heading way too fast into a corner and tried to lock up the brakes to lay it down. Ended up going off the corner and over a 100 ft. drop because it wouldn't "lay down".

That bike, an 1150GS was recently sold and my new non-ABS Tiger is due in any day now. I think it will be even better than my GS off-road due to the lighter weight. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
On 2006-12-15 17:03, winger wrote:
Sorry completely disagree!!,i've had loads of instances were i wished a was a better rider but never one were i wished i'd had ABS.
I was on my Ducati Multistrada about 30 miles north of the Grand Canyon on a two lane black top doing about 45 mph riding in a group of 4. I was probably about 100 yards ahead of the other three.

There was an RV pulled off the right side of the road and a couple of cars heading north towards me in the opposing lane of traffic.

When I was about 50-75 feet from the RV (having slowed to about 35 mph) he pulled onto the road in front of me.

I locked up the brakes and that is the last thing I remember until my short term memory returns with people asking me stupid questions about the date and numbers of fingers.

Looking at the bike and talking to witnesses, both tires locked up and the rear came around to the right and tried to pass the front.

At that point the bike went down on its left side and seperated from me and slid under the rear of the RV.

I ended up with a broken colar bone, cracked shoulder blade and a couple of broken ribs.

Thanks to Nolan, Joe Rocket and Oxtar that was pretty much the extent of my injuries. No head injury, no road rash and in general pretty good shape considering I had just totaled the Duc.

I truely believe that the results would have been different with ABS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
On 2006-12-15 17:03, winger wrote:
Sorry completely disagree!!,i've had loads of instances were i wished a was a better rider but never one were i wished i'd had ABS.
When you wished you were a better rider did you actually part company with the bike?

Since reincarnation isn't an option you should prefer having ABS for that "one time" when all the "thing between your ears" is saying is "OH F***"

Paul :)
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top