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Discussion Starter #1
Recently there were some questions posed by Americans concerning the possible resentment caused by basing marines in northern Australia. Ex-Aussie PM, Paul Keating, from the same party as Julia Gillard's, focusses not on the presence of Marines but the forcefulness of Obama's speech directed at China from Australian parliament. I am not a great lover of Paul Keating, nor do I agree with all that he predicts or claims, but I do agree with the overall gist of the content of this interview. It is a matter I believe we should consider seriously.

Until Obama's speech, I was not even aware of American fear of China. This "Red Under Your Bed" reaction has mildly stunned me. I do not believe that China's monumental economic activity is necessarily a good thing, but it is not our (or anybody else's) place to monitor it, let alone regulate it. Any of us who have eagerly consumed their goods and is now instructing China to "tone it down", is plainly hypocritical.

I am trying to promote serious, non-hostile banter between us laymen on what may become the most volatile situation this century. I am not proposing that our collective wisdom is going to make an ounce of difference but I'd get great joy out of RAT.net Americans and Aussies understanding each other a little better. If it turns out to be an unpopular move on my part, I'd prefer to let this thread die a natural death than it become anything other than what I have proposed. I hope my wishes are not too ideal.

Here's Paul. It will take up 20 mins of your life if you are willing to watch until the end.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-23/paul-keating-joins-lateline/3690258
 

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I believe the fear stems from the fact that China is getting very large economically, has a large number of citizens and has a governmental system diametrically opposed to that of the US - Communism. The Soviet Union was the same way (I don't think they had as big an economy either) but much more militant. Americans aren't comfortable with another superpower out there that promotes a Communist government system.

I don't know if there's really anything to fear, but IMO, the US and China both have each other by the balls. China would lose an immense amount of money if they got into a conflict with the US (they have a ton of US Treasury notes, we are a large trading partner) and the US would lose a cheap source of goods - we'd be paying a lot more for stuff... I don't know who I'd bet on in a war, but I'd be packing up and hiding on a remote island somewhere if it came to that... I'd hope the US would win, as I have no respect for the Chinese culture for several reasons - restriction of information, citizens treated poorly by their government and materialistic, greedy people (that run over toddlers and reverse over them so they don't have to pay as much: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052815/Xiong-Maoke-5-dies-latest-horrific-Chinese-traffic-accident.html). That article infuriated me beyond belief...
 

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Thank you for watching it all the same. Thank you for your opinion even though I disagree with you on things like restriction of information. Yes, China restricts information, at least it does it openly. Here in Australia we say we are treated like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed bullschit.
 

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But you aren't disappeared and then shot for expressing an opinion your government doesn't like. Something to think about.

A big issue isn't China becoming an economic threat, it is that they are attempting to project power on an international basis. And they are being smarter than the Soviet Union was about it.

Me, I'm trying to avoid Chinese goods when I can.

Thank you for watching it all the same. Thank you for your opinion even though I disagree with you on things like restriction of information. Yes, China restricts information, at least it does it openly. Here in Australia we say we are treated like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed bullschit.
 

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I think russia's soviet economy peaked at roughly half that of the US.

Not bad considering it started at less than a tenth.
 

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I am not afraid of China....I did part of my international study tour at The Chinese University of Hong Kong in 1987. My oldest daughter will be leaving for her Asian study at CUHK in early January. China is a great trading partner of the US and we enjoy a great relationship. Obama moving 2500 troops to Australia is really symbolic and a gesture to let China know we support a free Taiwan.

People who bash Asia and India are really being short sided in the global big picture. Unrestricted trade and cross investment globally insures that any wars would be simply "too expensive" to be fought and would ruin the careers of the politicians who instigated them. So, as India and China grow to be economic equals with the USA we had better learn to teach our children how to embrace global competition or they will get run over by it. OR we can hide our heads in the sand and hope they all simply "go away" but that is not likely.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
But you aren't disappeared and then shot for expressing an opinion your government doesn't like. Something to think about.
I do. This kind of topic occupies my little brain for days on end. Have a chat to David Hicks or Julian Assange about expression of opinion. Both Australian and both hammered into silence and virtual non-existence by America (with Australian support). There are plenty of vocal westerners who disappear. Luckily David and Julian were made newsworthy prior to their persecution, it may have prevented their persecution from becoming execution.
 

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Didn't watch the vid Boldor, Keating is one of my least favourite people, perhaps that's understating my feeling for the man, in my opinion he's an arrogant, pompous know it all, twenty minutes watching him would severely detract from my day, which up to now is going along pretty well.
As far as China is concerned, perhaps its an age thing, China along with Indonesia has always been on my radar as a potential threat and of course the threat is growing alarmingly.
As much as some will not acknowledge it Australia's future is now as in the past inextricably linked to the U.S., had it not been for American intervention in the Second World War Australians would now be a nation of Japanese speakers, for any that doubt that this is the case check this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line
In my opinion Australia is fortunate to have the US as an ally.:)
 

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If the US wasn't attempting to give theselves a military advantage over russia they wouldn't be triggering that sort of reaction.

MAD falls down if one side has a working defence.
 

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If the US wasn't attempting to give theselves a military advantage over russia they wouldn't be triggering that sort of reaction.

MAD falls down if one side has a working defence.
I don't think there is any doubt as to who has the upper hand in that relationship nowadays.
China is an entirely different kettle of fish, and they're knocking on our back door.
Asia to our north, Antarctica to our south and the US way out there to our east, in times of trouble who ya gonna call? I'll give you a tip, it ain't ghost busters.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
in times of trouble who ya gonna call?
I request you give the viddie a go Santy, like I said, I was/am not fan of Keating either, but I do agree that Obama should not have launched a verbal at China from our parliament, and Julia should not have let him!

With all respect paid to America, they're not in the habit of fighting for people that don't serve their cause. No American presence in Tibet, non in West Papua, Sri Lanka, scads of African skirmishes etc etc etc. There is no point calling America, we have turf within striking range of China, they're gunna come anyway.
 

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I request you give the viddie a go Santy, like I said, I was/am not fan of Keating either, but I do agree that Obama should not have launched a verbal at China from our parliament, and Julia should not have let him!

With all respect paid to America, they're not in the habit of fighting for people that don't serve their cause. No American presence in Tibet, non in West Papua, Sri Lanka, scads of African skirmishes etc etc etc. There is no point calling America, we have turf within striking range of China, they're gunna come anyway.
Sorry Boldor, request denied, 20 mins of Keating is an unreasonable request:D
As far as America (not in the habit of fighting for people that don't serve their cause.) surely this is the case with all relationships personal or international, everyone needs/wants something from a partnership, in our case Aust is offering the Americans a military presence in the region in return for the implied umbrella of US protection, of course the only way to test the relationship would be if a major international conflict developed in the region and I'm sure none of us ever want to see that happen.
At the moment all we are seeing a bit of verbal argy bargy, at least it lets China and anyone else interested enough to listen that were not just sitting on our hands.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have been warned. By cutting too close to political agenda (and that is what this is) I am behaving too inflamatory. It is a shame, this issue could easily have deep cutting ramifications between our two countries in the very near future, and I have read some pretty insightful comments in this forum by presumably thinking people. I am EXTREMELY interested what you ordinary, motorcycling, American folk think and feel and do not really want to discuss my issues on a politically based forum/website where everyone is already champing and the bit to blow off. But by involving myself in political banter I AM breaking the site AUP rules, again I am resigning.

Thanks to those who responded.

Mick.
 
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