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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an "older" Speed Triple - a 98 T509 with the 885. Until recently it has given me no trouble and a great ride. Then, one day after a brief stop, I go to restart and it just cranked but wouldn't catch. At that time, I remember hearing the fuel system priming, but it didn't sound as loud as normal. I let the bike sit for about 1/2 hour and then gave it another try and it started, but with the engine light on. I got the bike home and then tried to figure out what was going on. I figured maybe it was the battery--it had been faltering after storage this winter, so I replaced it. I installed it today and she started right up! Problem solved, right? Nope. :mad:

I headed on out for a test ride after installing the new battery, and after about 10 minutes of pleasant riding, while accelerating from a stop the engine just dies. Now it will crank but no ignition. And to boot--when you turn the key to the start position, the fuel system "whine" is no longer evident. Usually when the key is in start it goes "squeeeeeeee"..

I tried switching the fuel pump relay, and still no "whine". I checked the connections to the new battery, they are nice and tight. Fuses are good. No obvious clues under the seat.. The bike has been sitting outside, maybe some moisture got into the kill switch?? Is the fuel pump dead? Any ideas folks before I take it to the dealer (who is about 1 hr away)? I only wish I had the fault codes from the first time it wouldn't start.
 

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Welcome to TriumphRat.net!
When you get a moment please visit the newbie thread - http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/83205-newbies-please-read-first-before-posting.html

For your problem, Check to see if this update has been done

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/109921-airbox-removal-no-spark.html#post1268991

Notorious for power issues on your model. First clue is whether you have one or two wires on the -ve terminal (latest update has two)
Second clue is if block is white (should be blue if upgraded)
You may have to dig through some foam to find it!

Good luck!

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply, and glad to be here.

I definitely have to do the wiring/ground upgrade; I have one wire on the -ve terminal and block is white... I will keep you posted on the results. I sure hope its as simple as this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
For your problem, Check to see if this update has been done

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/109921-airbox-removal-no-spark.html#post1268991

Notorious for power issues on your model. First clue is whether you have one or two wires on the -ve terminal (latest update has two)
Second clue is if block is white (should be blue if upgraded)
You may have to dig through some foam to find it!

Good luck!

.
Still at it.. but as I'm going I'm learning more, which is always good. The wiring appears to have been sorted by an earlier owner. The only junctions available are the plug for the diagnostics and the plug for the alarm system.

I think the prior lack of "dying duck" squeaking was due to low voltage from the battery due to continuous cranking. I plugged everything back together today and -- bada bing-- the T509 started right up. Well, not trusting that I actually fixed the situation, I decided to take her out for another test and -of course- the same thing happened. I went to stop and the oil pressure light illuminated and the bike died. When I went to try starting it again, the same thing--plenty of cranking but no ignition. And I was getting the sound from the fuel pump. After a long push home..

Decided to jump into the forum again and look for clues. In a separate thread, there were problems reported with the fuel lines.. So I decided to have a look under the body panels. In the process, when I removed the side/rear body panel (1 pc) I heard a distinct rattling coming from the tail light. Hmm. Turns out, there was a bulb that had broken off from its base-- The -ive wire from the bulb was sticking out and the glass part just rolling about with its wires all exposed. Is it possible that the bulb rolling about with those exposed wires was causing a short that was killing the bike as I accelerated or decelerated? By the time I got it disconnected the battery was too dead to crank with much juice ..so we shall see. I've ordered a new bulb in the meantime.

Also, found that the hose from the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel pump plate had cracked and was wide open... Not sure where this hose went because the other end was wide open too... Its about a 10 cm long hose-- What is this supposed to connect to, if anything? Would this prevent ignition?

Finally, I noticed I do have the old plastic connectors on the fuel lines.. They are -probably- not the issue but is replacing them much of a problem--I may just do it to prevent future issues. I see replacements are about $75.

Hopefully.. getting closer to a -trouble free- ride-- I hope soon as I've missed too much riding this summer and want to be able to wind it up this fall at least!:D
 

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... definitely have to do the wiring/ground upgrade; I have one wire on the -ve terminal and block is white...
... The wiring appears to have been sorted by an earlier owner. ...
If you have what you reported in the first post, then your wiring has definitely NOT been sorted
Take care of this before you start looking for anything else.

... Finally, I noticed I do have the old plastic connectors on the fuel lines..
Which connectors are you saying are plastic? The female ones are plastic - the male ones were originally plastic but replaced with metal. If you have plastic male fittings, the recall should still apply at no cost. The female ones are not subject to the recall.
They typically aren't an issue for external leaks unless broken through mishandling - they may leak through the dry-breakseal when disconnected due to age of the o-rings, but this has no bearing on normal performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
DEcosse, thanks for your advice-- I do appreciate it. I hope I don't have to do an entire re-wiring to get this fixed! Hopefully, a pic is worth 1000 to explain why I believe the wiring was addressed.



I believe the white connector is the alarm plug(--right?) and the grey is the plug for diagnostics; There is no other junction that I can find buried in foam or otherwise; I was basing my conclusion that the electrics had been sorted on the fact that the wiring seems re-wrapped and I can't find that terminal box. Well look at the pic (admittedly it isn't the best, but I can't get more detailed ones just yet).

I have also included a photo of the fuel plate, the cracked fuel pressure regulator hose is clear but you can also see the plastic fittings on the fuel lines.
 

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That's not the correct plug TripleJ - that is indeed the alarm connector, but not the one you want.
The one you want has all black wires to it. It may be buried under some foam material.

If you have one wire to the battery negative it is not the latest rev.

Again, see this link for pics.

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/109921-airbox-removal-no-spark.html#post1268991

Edit - found this pic in my own archives from when I was replacing the motor and complete harness for 02+ style:
Look forward of the battery box.
(note that that block was also down-rev!)



Sorry, I can't tell the material of those fittings from the lighting in the pic; but indeed if those male ones into the hoses are plastic, then they should be replaced with metal ones. The female ones on the fuel pump plate are still plastic & not subject to recall, but you can upgrade them with metal after-market or Team Triumph parts if you choose.
The female are not a trivial replacement - they will snap off when you try to remove them.
As suggested, they may leak across the dry-break 'seal' when you disconnect the males, but that is not a problem regarding normal performance, only a nuisance during removal for maintenance.
But definitely at minimum replace the males and if there is no extrenal leak from the females, you may wish to defer those for another time when yiou clear up the other issues.

Given the condition of that FPR hose, I would be more concerned about your vac hoses for the idle control - I would suggest replace all hoses between the TB's and ISCV as matter of course. If you have any high idle problems that would undoubtedly be the cause.
The FPR hose itself will not cause any issues per se.
 

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Ok so I am not trying to hijack this thread but I also have a 98 S3 that will not start for me. The bike was fine 3 weeks ago but I went to start it the other day and it fired right up and ran for about 45 sec then died. I tried to crank it again and it just wouldn't start just kept cranking. I did let it sit in the rain for the three weeks when I wasn't riding it. I opened the gas tank and noticed water in the top of the filler ridge so I thought I had water in the gas. I drained the tank and added fresh fuel and some Heet gas treatment to the tank. I tried starting it again and after many cranks it started I let it idle for 15 min or so and as soon as I put my hand on the throttle it died. I haven't been able to get it started again. I have read this post and all others you have mentioned. I have tried the following suggestions found in this and other posts.

- Changed the spark plugs
- Side stand is up when trying to start
- Cut-off switch is turned on
- I've tried starting with the fuel filler cap open
- Brand new batt
- Checked all fuse's


I am going to post some pictures and hopefully you can baby step my dumb ass through trying to fix my bike.


In this image I have circled some items. The black circle does this mean that the "ground block" issue has been done? I can't find any blue or white plug that has all black wires going to it and I have dug deep. Red is unpluged and goes to nothing?? Green has two things attached but Neg only has one is that normal. Relays labeled Yellow, pink, blue, and brown squares which one is what? I never got a manual with this bike.


This is a close up of the above red circled plug??? It goes to nothing?


Here is another plug which I believe you said is the alarm plug does this look ok?


Here is another plug that goes to nothing???


I know I am kinda clueless but I don't have the money to take it to a shop. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

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Welcome to TriumpRat.net Ducttapeforall - hopefully we can help you out without resorting to your screen-name for solution! :p

(When you have a moment please review our newbie thread)

On to your questions:

First, the relays:



The black wire on the tank mount bolt is definitely incorrect - there are no physical connections to the frame of the bike (only the one to the engine ground). Where does that wire originate from?
It may be the upgraded ground wire (but looks too small) - but that belongs on the battery terminal if it is. That looks more like something someone has added. Try to trace it back & see where it originates.

The red circle - that is the diagnostic connector - normally nothing connected to that.

The ground block can be seen in the pictures from the posts above - it has no 'mating' connector, just a terminal point for all the black ground wires to come together. The ground block is definitely in that same vicinity as your diag connector. It's definitely in there, you just need to keep digging.

Alarm plug looks normal - that 'blanking' plug with the one wire loop is the std bypass when no alarm fitted.

I wouldn't worry about those other connectors.
 

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I will keep digging for the ground block do you think that is what may be causing my problem? What else should I be checking? I will see where that wire goes to also. Thanks
 

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Ok, I'm just throwing this out there for you guys to possibly look at.

a few years ago my brother sold his 99 Daytona (don't know if the wiring is the same, but I think its close enough) and about a week after selling it the new owner called saying that it would start, die then not restart. Just like your bikes.

Come to find out the fuel filter was original.The new owner was the 3rd person to own this bike and no one ever changed the filter. After he changed it the bike sarted right up.

Now I'm not saying this is your problem, but it did happen. So there you go.

Good luck.
 

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97 speed triple

i got a 1997 triumph t509 s3, from a good friend who had it for 2yr in his garage and couldnt get it started.
i am now trying with it, i attached a pic showing 6 wires exposed something seem to be missing there, need some help.

bike 001.jpg
 

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Welcome to TriumphRat.net!
Please take a moment to visit our newbie thread then revisit your usercp and complete your profile to identify your model under favourite bike and your location.

Those wires should have gone to the diagnostic connector - won't stop the bike from running but totally bizarre that someone would remove that - important interface to the ECM for pulling error codes, some calibrations procedures etc.
 

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t509

we got the bike started, thanx.



Welcome to TriumphRat.net!
Please take a moment to visit our newbie thread then revisit your usercp and complete your profile to identify your model under favourite bike and your location.

Those wires should have gone to the diagnostic connector - won't stop the bike from running but totally bizarre that someone would remove that - important interface to the ECM for pulling error codes, some calibrations procedures etc.
 
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