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Discussion Starter #1
This front end looks like mine T150V front end - if it is I hope you didn't use original springs with blob of red paint on one end - they are much to stiff for Trident, wouldn't work at all for a twin.
Front brake will work well with Platinum Ferodo HH pads and 11 mm front master, front light is good with H4 Lucas / Wassell reflector + bulb ( 55 / 45W? or stronger ) and 3 phase alternator.
Hi Adam,

Hmmmm. Not sure (on 22nd thoughts) about my front end. The frame is definitely an original T120R though. The forks could be the original TR7RV as the sliders would have to be to take the disc caliper.. My front master cylinder is a Norton Mk3 it seems. I'll be changing that for the correct one soon. I put some unbranded pads in when I got the bike on the road, simply because I wasn't sure I could get it roadworthy - as it happens once everything settled in it works really well.

It's a 73 TR7RV in a 71 T120R frame. I bought it as a tatty non-runner from a UK importer who brings in bikes from the US and Canada (this one's from Toronto): wiring burnt out, gearbox problems, and other key minor parts missing) simply as a project with the hope of getting it on the road this year and if all went OK restoring what was necessary this winter. That plan's worked. The frame is down to the bare metal up front (Canadian winters I suspect) but it runs really well. Pulls like a train from low revs and will cruise all day, leaving an oil slick. The front mudguard is non original but it doesn't look too out of place. The centre stand is badly worn and that needs fixing (I have a tame welder). Otherwise it's leave it alone as far as possible, just powder coat the black bits, new master cylinder and engine strip and inspect - and that sludge trap, and a careful re-assemble. Needs 2 or 3 helicoils too.

I fitted a pattern front brake caliper as the original was seized, but will try to get that repaired and then I can fit the chrome cover again. I know it's not matching numbers, but it really is a joy to ride and the complete antithesis of my 72 newly-restored Daytona.

The pics are as I bought it - not as it is now! It looks much better now with some effort and a new, correct exhaust system.

I'll be posting the story over the winter.
 

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Hi Andy,

front end.
Disc-brake forks are essentially disc-brake forks, from the first ('73) to the last. The only differences between triples and OIF twins are:-

. Bottom yoke. Twin's doesn't have the Zener mounting tab and the stem is shorter for the shorter OIF steering head.

. Top yoke. Same in '73/'74, twins continued with it 'til '79, when they got the same as the T160's.

. Springs and dampers.

front master cylinder is a Norton Mk3 it seems. I'll be changing that for the correct one soon.
Your attached images are small so I couldn't enlarge them; however, if it really is the Notrun mounting casting, it's better than the Triumph one as it incorporates a mounting for a proper brake lamp pressure switch. Given this was made for Notrun, the pre-'79 shonky junk cobbled up for Triumph beggars belief. :bluduh If you can post some pictures of just the existing master cylinder and any existing switch cluster on the right 'bar, I might be able to offer more detailed advice.

pattern front brake caliper as the original was seized, but will try to get that repaired
Mmmm ... was the pattern an ally Grimeca? If so, less unsprung weight than the original steel caliper and imho looks better - bear in mind the chrome cover is only a 'go-faster stripe' to cover the ugly steel caliper ... :) If the pattern one is a Grimeca, check the mounting holes - the Grimeca was 'all metric', possibly including the mounting holes being 10 mm. ID rather than the 3/8" of the studs.

unbranded pads
works really well.
If you intend changing 'em, Mini Green Stuff are cheaper and better than paying for packaging like "EBC HH", "Ferodo Platinum", blah. However, there seems to be more than one grade of Green Stuff so I can point you at a couple of suppliers of different grades that are known to work well on bikes.

front mudguard is non original
Looks like the one Harris came up with for his Bonny; if it is, it's stainless. Only problem with them and a single disc is they weren't designed for keeping the sliders parallel under hard braking. The standard '73-on "Bridge" is better, if not brilliant. @Boggie Ian reports the Hyde brace is better.

71 T120R frame.
frame is down to the bare metal
You know about checking for cracks where the swinging arm mounts to the oil tank/tube, and to have it strengthened as per later OIF?

engine strip and inspect - and that sludge trap,
Put a Charlie's filter in the bottom of the frame tube and/or an external filter between engine and tank/tube return and you'll never be concerned about the "sludge trap" again. :)

Otherwise it's leave it alone as far as possible,
I bought it as a tatty non-runner
You don't mention the brake hoses? Lockheed recommended they should be changed at no more than ten years old. However, no remaining part of "Lockheed" makes 'em. :( Nevertheless, I haven't used even a Lockheed hose since the early 1980's, all Goodridge braided with stainless end fittings (spendy but Kwol, hoses I made (easy to make) in the early 1980's are indistinguishable from any made even recently :thumb). If you're changing caliper and/or master cylinder, maybe consider replacing the hoses and pipes at the same time?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Andy,
Your attached images are small so I couldn't enlarge them; however, if it really is the Notrun mounting casting, it's better than the Triumph one as it incorporates a mounting for a proper brake lamp pressure switch. Given this was made for Notrun, the pre-'79 shonky junk cobbled up for Triumph beggars belief. :bluduh If you can post some pictures of just the existing master cylinder and any existing switch cluster on the right 'bar, I might be able to offer more detailed advice.


Mmmm ... was the pattern an ally Grimeca? If so, less unsprung weight than the original steel caliper and imho looks better - bear in mind the chrome cover is only a 'go-faster stripe' to cover the ugly steel caliper ... :) If the pattern one is a Grimeca, check the mounting holes - the Grimeca was 'all metric', possibly including the mounting holes being 10 mm. ID rather than the 3/8" of the studs.


If you intend changing 'em, Mini Green Stuff are cheaper and better than paying for packaging like "EBC HH", "Ferodo Platinum", blah. However, there seems to me more than one grade of Green Stuff so I can point you at a couple of suppliers of different grades that are known to work well on bikes.


Looks like the one Harris came up with for his Bonny; if it is, it's stainless. Only problem with them and a single disc is they weren't designed for keeping the sliders parallel under hard braking. The standard '73-on "Bridge" is better, if not brilliant. @Boggie Ian reports the Hyde brace is better.


You know about checking for cracks where the swinging arm mounts to the oil tank/tube, and to have it strengthened as per later OIF?


Put a Charlie's filter in the bottom of the frame tube and/or an external filter between engine and tank/tube return and you'll never be concerned about the "sludge trap" again. :)


You don't mention the brake hoses? Lockheed recommended they should be changed at no more than ten years old. However, no remaining part of "Lockheed" makes 'em. :( Nevertheless, I haven't used even a Lockheed hose since the early 1980's, all Goodridge braided with stainless end fittings (spendy but Kwol, hoses I made (easy to make) in the early 1980's are indistinguishable from any made even recently :thumb). If you're changing caliper and/or master cylinder, maybe consider replacing the hoses and pipes at the same time?

Hth.

Regards,
Hi Stuart,

Not quite ready for the Tiger strip yet - there's still some good weather to be had! But, hey, may as well make a start on the thread.

Some photos attached to kick off with.

The bike had had some repair work done in Canada before I bought it. The thinking is that the PO had started to sort it and then either lost interest, or ran out of money, or something else. The engine has clearly been apart relatively recently, but given the 2 or 3 stripped threads around the rocker boxes, only half a job was done. The frame had a number of loose fasteners, so I think the engine was done, or part done, and the whole thing thrown together to get it to a rolling state to get into a container and off to the UK. There were a number of small parts missing, but it came with a set of rubbers and a few other bits. I was aware of this when I bought it and looked upon it as a project to see if I could get it roadworthy - and succeeded. I'd not had a bike needing work since my last Daytona back around 1981. My later Honda NTV600 hardly ever needed a spanner.

I have no idea when the frame was changed, but it looked like the whole thing had been together for some time. There's no evidence of accident damage; TOMCC suggested that the original frame may simply have suffered from corrosion given that it's spent all its life in Toronto - or maybe it suffered the cracking around the swinging arm spindle? Who knows. I wrote to the last registered owner in Toronto but have had no reply.

Got it to run fairly easily - thorough overhaul of the carb, re-set tappets, check head bolt torques, checked all fasteners, new ignition wiring, new battery and a static timing check for the Boyer, new plugs, caps etc. Was very circumspect at first as I had no idea what the state of the engine was, but took it steady, checked the condition of the oil regularly (no debris etc) and gradually gained confidence in it. Also strobed the timing soon after getting it running.

Was mightily relieved to get a '71 age-related plate for it, with the help of the TOMCC - the original Canadian title did not refer to the different frame number. I could have registered it as a 73 Tiger from the engine number - DVLA would never have known unless they had it inspected, but I wanted to be up front and explained the situation to DVLA, and they gave it a registration based on the frame number - as they always do. Even if 90% of the bike is a '73.

It's never missed a beat all summer, the oil circulates fine, the oil pressure light goes out as soon as the engine fires, and stays out for maybe 5-7 seconds after switch off.




So, to your points:

OIF frame cracks - no, news to me. I'll have a look when it's been blasted. No oil leaks in that area though. Any links for the repair?

The master cylinder' s a Norton - as I understand it, and that was the repair kit that fitted too. It was full of oily rusty water when I stripped it so I wasn't hopeful, but it cleaned up OK and has done 1000 miles this summer with no leaks and the lever is fine in use. It doesn't have any provision for the RH 'bar switch - and I have now sourced the correct Lucas console switch for that side (Stafford autojumble came up trumps for that), so I'll restore the matching pair with a new M/C and lever assembly - that's the plan.

The new caliper is a Grimeca - it works fine once I sussed out the fasteners. All new bundy and hoses too this summer. It would just be nice to put that cover back, but it does not fit over the Grimeca caliper. In the interests of originality - but given the non-matching numbers it's only worth going so far.

The front m/g is stainless, and it has an odd hole on the rear nearside - any idea why? It's in perfect condition, but again, it would be nice to go stock - but I'm aware of the bracing issue. ATM, the forks work perfectly under braking - or as perfectly as I need. The new pads took a while to bed in, but now they have they are as sharp as I need.

Charlie's filter - yes, aware of that. Much better than an external filter I think.

Given that the forks work fine, are nice and progressive and they bounce back nicely, I'll probably just drop both forks out and not disassemble them, other than an oil change. They don't leak and the outer dust cover is new. I reckon the forks had already been done and I see no need to strip them.

I will, however, strip the engine to find out what I've got, and change bearings etc as necessary, all perishables, check the sludge trap, sort the stripped threads, and have the ally bits vapour blasted. However, it uses no oil, there's no smoke, it starts easily and reliably, there's loads of compression and it pulls like a train. It's a bit clattery so maybe needs something in the primary - the adjuster was mangled when I got it. We will see. But, when I bought it, the piston tops were brand new and shiny - so I reckon the engine is basically OK.

The gearbox and change gave me a lot of trouble, but eventually got it sorted. Misplaced layshaft thrust washer and a 4 spd gear change quadrant and worn springs etc. It still has an occasional idiosyncracy in changing up 2nd to 3rd, but that's all. Otherwise it's fine. A bit stiffer than my Daytona is, but fine, smooth and not noisy.

Will also have the wheels stripped, hubs (comical at the back) polished and re-spoked - my wheelbuilder reckons that they've been apart relatively recently but there are a couple of seized nipples and loose spokes.

The centre stand is so worn that both wheels sit on the ground - the centre stand goes way too far forward. That makes it really hard to get it off the stand - and since I'm no longer 21, that's an issue. I'll get it built up with weld and ground back so that the stand stays nearer the vertical. The bolt holes are fine.

That's the plan, anyway. Keep as much originality as possible, given the T120R frame, but get everything working and respectable, and reliable fun to ride. I'm surprised at just how much fun it has been this summer, despite its tatty appearance, and those plastic side covers are plain horrible.

All comments and suggestions gratefully received.
 

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Hi Andy,

OIF frame cracks
Have a Search of the main CVV Forum, I'm sure I've read stuff there. If you don't find anything, start a thread, I have it in mind it was likely @Rancidpegwoman, @wol, @rambo or @DAVE M that've written about it? I also have it in mind that Triumph had fixed the problem by '73 and the disc brake?

master cylinder' s a Norton - as I understand it, and that was the repair kit that fitted too.
:nah I know the Notrun repair kit fits but 'tin't Notrun; as I say, the standard Commando castings incorporate a mounting for a pressure switch. It's a Lockheed CP2215, a so-called "racing" master cylinder, although I bought one in about 1983 to fix a shonky Honda front brake - still got it and it currently adorns my T100. :thumb

master cylinder
doesn't have any provision for the RH 'bar switch - and I have now sourced the correct Lucas console switch for that side
so I'll restore the matching pair with a new M/C and lever assembly - that's the plan.
Ime, I really, really wouldn't ... apart from "given the non-matching numbers it's only worth going so far", the 'correct' master cylinder, mounting, blah will set you back a large amount of money, won't work any better (because the cylinder's exactly the same size) and might work worse depending on which pattern parts maker made the stainless bits. :( An educated guess says the "Stafford autojumble" switch cluster is either original Lucas (in which case it's at least 40 years old) or it's new Shonky Sparkx or Wassell "Genuine Lucas"? :rofl As I say, the plastic brake lamp switch is pretty horrible ...

Just as a matter of interest, what switch cluster is on the left 'bar? If it's the 'pair' of the new right-hand one you've bought, I appreciate you must be looking forward to having the missing functions. Fwiw, on my T100, I used the left-hand cluster first fitted to the T160 and then to '76-'78 twins; this has all the functions except the kill switch, I've faffed around with a couple of different right-hand clusters but, from an old main Forum thread, I'm going to fit one from a Hinckley - it only has kill switch (and electric starter) and, because Hinckleys have a master cylinder that clamps independently around the 'bar - like our "racing" master cylinders :rolleyes: - it'll fit between twistgrip and master cylinder without moving 'em too far apart.

All new bundy and hoses
That's a pity in one way, because I'm guessing you won't be wildly-keen on chucking most of it away to fit a brake lamp pressure switch? :)

Just as a matter of interest, did you find hose/bundy to fit master cylinder and caliper metric threads, or have you used standard 3/8"UNF?

would just be nice to put that cover back, but it does not fit over the Grimeca caliper. In the interests of originality - but given the non-matching numbers it's only worth going so far.
:nod Depends how much you want to spend rescuing the original caliper?

front m/g is stainless, and it has an odd hole on the rear nearside - any idea why?
'Fraid not; I bought one for the aforementioned Honda, after it's original 'guard rusted but I don't recollect the 'ole.

Charlie's filter
Much better than an external filter I think.
Fwiw, my T100 has a Tri-Cor England filter kit that uses the standard triple element.

Hth,

Regards,
 

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So it looks like I have some connection to this bike leaving in a Toronto suburb.:)
Front fender to me looks like some Kawasaki fender with a hole for plastic brake line guide.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Stuart,

The console switch I found at Stafford is an original Lucas - used but in good nick. It was even attached to a battered m/cylinder, which I declined and got a tenner off! I want it to match the LH side one - I've got half of the repair kit still to use. Had to refurb the console switches on my T100R so got the hang of that job now.

I may or may not restore the indicators - so I have to decide how I'm going to configure the 2 switches, very probably no front brake switch. I was taught, years ago by Police motorcyclists, to apply the back brake a fraction after the front - and I always do - so I get the brake light on anyway. ATM, the LH switch operates the main/dip and horn, so a PO has reconfigured the functions. I need to have a look at the wiring and see what's what. My T100R has main/dip on the RH side and indicators on th LH switch. Will set the Tiger to the same way.

And yes - it's the Tri-Cor kit filter that I'll probably buy.

The new m/c will be from LP Williams or similar - not a part I'll be taking any risks with.

Andy
 

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Hi Andy,

may or may not restore the indicators - so I have to decide how I'm going to configure the 2 switches,
ATM, the LH switch operates the main/dip and horn, so a PO has reconfigured the functions. I need to have a look at the wiring and see what's what. My T100R has main/dip on the RH side and indicators on th LH switch. Will set the Tiger to the same way.
Risking telling you things you know already, there are basically three different switch clusters with the short black flappy paddle lever in the middle (not counting the right-hand one fitted to T160's and '76-'78 twins, where the lever's the kill switch):-

. '71 and early '72, the 'indicators cluster' (3-position short black flappy paddle lever, Green/White, Green/Red and Light Green/Brown wires) was on the right bar and the 'dipswitch cluster' (2-position short black flappy paddle lever, Blue/White, Blue/Red and Blue wires) was on the left bar;

. the dipswitch lever used the 'down' and 'middle' positions so, when the clusters swapped 'bars from about mid-'72, a new 'dipswitch cluster' has the lever still using the 'down' and 'middle' positions on the right 'bar.

front brake switch. I was taught, years ago by Police motorcyclists, to apply the back brake a fraction after the front
:nod I've been out with both Met. and Kent police riders and I've done the IAM course ... but show me a police motorcycle not fitted with a front brake switch ... :) Certainly in the crowded south-east, even police motorcyclists sometimes have to ride feet off the 'rests, no front brake switch and there are times when (usually) a rider behind won't always appreciate the rider in front is braking. :(

Before I rewired/upgraded my T160's, it wasn't unusual to spend time getting the brake lamp switches to work before a ride, then be advised during the ride by other riders or drivers that the brake lamp wasn't working ... :Not again So one of the upgrades was to replace the standard switches with pressure switches; zero reliability problems in over thirty years :thumb (sez he while tapping his head ...).

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Andy,

. '71 and early '72, the 'indicators cluster' (3-position short black flappy paddle lever, Green/White, Green/Red and Light Green/Brown wires) was on the right bar and the 'dipswitch cluster' (2-position short black flappy paddle lever, Blue/White, Blue/Red and Blue wires) was on the left bar;

. the dipswitch lever used the 'down' and 'middle' positions so, when the clusters swapped 'bars from about mid-'72, a new 'dipswitch cluster' has the lever still using the 'down' and 'middle' positions on the right 'bar.
Hi Stuart - is '71 or '72 the build or model year? My T100R was a December 71 build so a 72 model year. The most appropriate wiring diagram I found for that bike had the indicators on the LH switch, which is where I have them, so now I'm not sure which way around the switches should be. The Tiger is a 1st November 1972 build.

I'd aim to have the switches the same way around so as not to confuse myself, so I need to work out what is correct for each, and then 'normalise' accordingly.
 

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Hi Andy,

'71 or '72 the build or model year?
Aiui, the Triumph convention is "model year" unless otherwise specified; certainly that's the one I use, picked up first from dealers, followed by owners' clubs' magazines and internet forums.

My T100R was a December 71 build so a 72 model year. The most appropriate wiring diagram I found for that bike had the indicators on the LH switch,
Mmmm ... depends where you look and what you know already ... :) Many think a Triumph workshop manual'd be reliable ... but the switch cluster labels on the 500 manual wiring diagrams are misprinted for the "KE00001 onwards" printed beside 'em ... :Not again but they're 'correct' for mid-'72-on ...

Bear in mind the whole point of the '71-on switch clusters was the same were supplied to all British motorcycle makers - BSA/Triumph and Norton - for all their ranges, models, versions and variants. Aside, that's why one of the switch clusters has a White/Red wire - because BSA/Triumph planned to introduce the new 350 DOHC Fury/Bandit range, some versions of which would've had an electric-starter - White/Red is the colour code for the starter-button-to-relay wire.

The '71 500 and 650 parts books illustrate and list exactly the same switch clusters; however, the '71/'72 650 workshop manual shows two wiring diagrams - "up to engine number HG 30870" and "from to engine number HG 30870" - with the switch clusters correctly on different sides. Then, when you look harder at the 500 diagrams, you realise the switch cluster labels are on the 'wrong' sides relative to the other lamps ... :Darn

now I'm not sure which way around the switches should be. The Tiger is a 1st November 1972 build.
I'd aim to have the switches the same way around so as not to confuse myself, so I need to work out what is correct for each,
Imho, they're your bikes, have what suits you. As you're essentially building your 750 as a '73 - which would've had indicator switch on the left and dipswitch on the right originally - and your T100 is set up that way already, why not stick with that? Bear in mind the switch clusters look identical so no-one looking at your T100 will know the clusters are on the 'wrong' 'bars. :)

Also bear in mind the 'later' dipswitch cluster - that goes on the right 'bar - is the one that Sparx patterns; the 'early' ('71-to-mid-'72) one - that goes on the left 'bar - is only available as 'original Lucas'.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Been out today (cool but sunny) and took the TR7RV to the restorer for them to have a listen to the engine running, in advance of me taking them the bits to fit new bearings etc, whatever they decide it needs. They had a listen with a screwdriver and other than noisy tappets, they reckoned there was a noisy gearbox bearing. Other than that, no obvious problems.

Then took it to my tame welder and put it up on the centre stand - where the wear problem was immediately apparent and Jem knew instantly what the problem was, and the fix. On the stand, both wheels are still on the ground - you can push the bike around on the stand - which is angled a long way forward. The wear is not in the pivot bolt holes, it's on the top of the stand legs where they abut the frame.

So, the principal players in the winter's restoration know what they have to do for me, in exchange for large numbers of beer tokens.

Then, back home, I had a go at Stuart's fix for the skewed handlebars:

https://www.triumphrat.net/2004011818-post57.html

Took hold of the bars and leaned on them. After initial resistance the P clamps gave a bit and hey-ho, the bars are now straight - ready to be taken apart in the next week or so. But I now understand the fix - and it's blindingly obvious. If the P clamp bolt sections are not coaxial, so that the cores to the Metalastic bushes are not co-axial, then the bars will be skewed - no matter how co-axial the fork legs are. I could have released the P clamps and un-skewed the bars that way, but I'd simply tightened the clamps up under 'no'load' conditions. If the bars are skewed, all I need to do now is to hold them straight and then tighten the P clamps. Simples. Why didn't I think of that? It's blindingly obvious.

So, now to drain the tank and put that petrol in the Daytona, then drain the oils and start the strip down. Watch this space.

I think I've had a successful year. I bought the Tiger as a very scruffy non-runner in February, to give me something productive, practical and creative to do. The year's objective was to get it running, registered and on the road. If I could achieve that, then I'd run it and find out what needed fixing. Over a thousand relatively trouble-free (but oily) miles later the answer seems to be not much, other than fixing a few knackered threads, some oil leaks, and some cosmetic issues. So, onto this winter's project.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Made a start on the engine strip down, leaving the rear wheel and brakes in place for now so I can lock the transmission to undo the big engine and gearbox nuts first.

The engine runs very nicely and I'm not aware of any issues; this is mainly a cosmetic refurb, taking the opportunity to check the engine over and replace anything that needs it. Seals will definitely be replaced. And I use WellSeal to try to eliminate oil leaks - 95% successfully on my T100R.

There's some minor scoring of the barrels on the inlet side, I can barely get a fingernail to catch in these - due I suspect to the lack of an air filter. Given that the engine burns no oil, I'm hoping that a light hone will take most of these out. Pistons are +20 thou. It will be getting an air filter this winter. Don't see the need to rebore to take these marks out when the engine burns no oil. There's definitely no step at the top of the bores. When I bought the bike, the piston tops were shiny and clean, and I've done 1000 miles since.

The head bolts were all tight when removed and there's no evidence of any head gasket blow-by - I'm hoping to anneal the copper head gasket and re-use. 2 or 3 of the rocker bolt threads in the head were stripped, so these will be helicoiled - or similar.

There was an eggcup full of oil in the timing chest, and none in the points chest.

Anyone any comment on the valves? No carbon build up and the plugs are not eroded or white - so I think the mixture is OK. Certainly no pinking. I've been running on 95 octane with a lead/octane booster additive, but the last couple of tanks have been 97 octane and no additive. I have a Boyer ignition and the ignition timing was set by strobe 1000 miles ago.

All comments gratefully received.
 

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Everything looks good for me, other than some oil leaking from cylinder head bolts outside on cylinder and cylinder head fins?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Everything looks good for me, other than some oil leaking from cylinder head bolts outside on cylinder and cylinder head fins?
Thx. The oil was mainly (I think) from the leaking rocker box joints. 3 of the 1/4 UNC hold down bolts were stripped, so the rocker boxes were fixed by the 5 or 6 nuts on the underside - so it was a bit messy. These threads will be helicoiled. The leaking oil seemed to then flow around the head to barrel joint. Looking closely at the head gasket and the mating surface underside the head, I couldn't see any evidence of a leaking head gasket - and the head bolts were all appropriately tight when I took the head off.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You can helicoil the 4 rockerbox bolt holes in the head, JUST BE CAREFUL and do it right.
I'm getting the pros to do it! I gave all the big bits on my T100R to a local restorers to sort - including changing bearings etc, and the sludge trap. Given the value in the parts there's no way I'm going anywhere near that head with anything other than kerosene and a brush! They will get more beer vouchers from me in due course! I may bite off a lot sometimes, but I know my limits. My wife was quite impressed that I took a rusty, corroded T100R in bits and made a very presentable running motorcycle out of it. I'm aiming to repeat the stunt with the 750.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Rats. This is not going as well as I'd hoped.

The pistons are +20 and when I bought the bike the tops were shiny and looked brand new. When I took the head off there was some light scoring on the inlet side of the barrels, which I thought might be due to ingesting grit (I've no air filter - yet). Not so.

The pistons are also scored below the oil holes at the oil control ring - on both sides of #2 piston and the inlet side of #1. Plus, a compression ring on #2 is broken. Rats x 10.

I really did not want to have to have a re-bore. The pistons are fine apart from the scoring, which is actually not too bad, it looks worse than it is I think. However, a broken ring means a new set of rings and a hone at least. They are £40, new pistons are £90. I'm thinking it may be a false economy not to re-bore to +40.

I've loosened all the nuts in the timing chest, and the gearbox main shaft.

I'd hoped that my T100R timing pinion puller would work on this motor - no chance, And I haven't got a crank pinion puller. I think I'll be swilling the crankcase out with paraffin (aka kerosene) and letting the restorers pull the pinions.

The piston scoring means that the oil's been gritty. The (ex-Toronto) bike came to me drained of all fluids (I suspect cross-pond shipping requirement. I took the base plate off the spine tank and had a look (and cleaned) the gauze strainer - but it was clear anyway. I also drained the crankcase sump and cleaned that and its strainer. I wiped out the base of the spine tank as best I could - it was grubby, but no obvious debris in it.

I filled it with new Classic 20/50 from Carlube - supposedly (according to their website) formulated for older engines. Ran it for about 100 miles, and changed the oil. It looked fine - no shiny debris in it. It's done a further 900 miles.

The frame has not been media blasted - that's why I'm stripping it - to have it blasted and powder coated. So if there was muck in the frame, it's been hiding in the crevices.

I've ordered an external filter kit. Bit late though.

Rats.

What does the panel think?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, on my timing chest lubrication thread I'd indicated that I would have the frame media blasted before having it powder coated. Everyone, without exception, that I've spoken to has said not to do it.

So I won't.

I know a local company that will chemically dip a frame, and the local powder coater who did a superb job on my T100R also refurbs alloy wheels - and he chemically dips them first - so presumably he is happy to powdercoat a chemically dipped frame.

Anyone know of any reason not to chemically dip an OiF? Or any precautions to be taken?

Thx
 

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If the engine was really rebuilt, the quality of work is dubious to me:
- I don't see any honing pattern on cylinder bores,
- to small clearance between pistons and cylinders could be a cause of scoring, but you still have blowby of oil on the sides of the pistons and broken ring.

So pistons and bores should be measured again to be sure what clearance you have between them and I hope new set of rings and a hone is everything necessary.
I rode my A65 with a scored cylinder for 6 seasons with no lower compression on this cylinder, so in your case bores could be honed, piston cleaned, rings replaced and that is it.
If clearance between pistons and cylinders was too tight additional honing should improve things as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Adam, Don and Peg: Responses to your latest posts - all of which gratefully rcvd.

Adam:
There's a lot of new blue Hylomar ? gasket compound around - so it has been rebuilt - or at least re-assembled. I know that the piston tops were shiny when I bought the bike, so I'm assuming it had had some mechanical work done. The flywheel looks very clean, so someone has had the engine apart and cleaned it up - unless it's a new crank of course! There is definitely some good crosshatch honing on the bottom of the barrel bores but it doesn't show in the photos. Peg has commented that the pistons look as though they may have seized. I was beginning to wonder that, and had another look at them and can agree with her - there's a localised layer of loose ali on the piston skirts in places - as though they have picked up. I'm beginning to think that there's something wrong with the clearances - although at the top of the bore the pistons have maybe 20 thou (guessing) of lateral movement.

Peg:
I've spoken to a powder coating company in Telford, recommended by the people I bought the bike from in February. They use a neighbouring company for media blasting, and also chemical stripping of motorcycle frames. Don raised the issue of rust flakes from higher up in the frame getting into the oil - those circulating won't do the bearings any good. Chemical dipping may help to get the inside of the frame clean too. Anyway, they said to take the frame to them (only 25 miles away) and they can advise. I think that's what I'll do, so the two companies can liaise and get the frame cleaned and powder coated.

I had my T100R frame media blasted and powder coated and the powder coaters blank off the swinging arm tube bushes - so it wasn't a problem for them. The swinging arm bushes seem to be good on the Tiger so I don't want to take them out - hopefully they can work around that.

Cleaning out the sludge trap is a given! It was a struggle on my T100R, but the restorer's got there in the end - they'll be doing the trap on the Tiger as well.

Don:
The Motao and the Charlies oil filter kits look to me to be identical. I've bought a Norton type external filter to go in the return line, but I'd agree that it's preferable to have the filter in the feed. I've found an archived thread on this forum which recounts removing that early model feed pipe as you suggest, so that the in frame filter can be used. I'd thought of that before I saw that thread, and now your response. I was wary though of making that modification, finding that it didn't work and having some difficult reversals to do - so I'd backed away from that and bought the external kit. It fits above the gearbox on the rh side - so it shows, but then this is never going to be a show bike. I might re-think that filter now. Could install both - or I could use the external on my T100R.

I'm having my tame welder repair my centre stand so I could buy the in frame kit and have him make sure it all works together while he's got the welder out.

I found the threads on OiF swing arm tube reinforcing a while ago. The frame's not cracked in that area but it seems only sensible to have it reinforced at the same time as the centre stand repairs are done. There seem to be 2 ways of doing it but I'd go for the angle iron bracing as per the attached.


Very many thx to you all for the ideas and suggestions - hugely appreciated. I've got some mechanical knowledge and rebuilt a few engines over the years - but your specialist experience in this model is invaluable. Keep it up!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Next Question For The Panel: Clutch.

The clutch works fine on this bike, other than an occasional (like 3/10) times on changing up from 2nd to 3rd it will find a neutral. I have a workaround so it's not a problem.

On stripping the clutch, there's some wear in the grooves on both centre and basket. The thrust washer was obviously mis-installed by a PO as it's worn eccentrically! This may be something to do with the idiosyncratic changeup action.

I'll fit a new basket, centre c/w rubbers etc, rollers and a thrust washer. The hub looks OK.

Given that the action is nice and light and it does not slip, the plates would seem to be OK, but the tangs are worn. I'm reluctant to fit old plates into a new basket and centre and accelerate the wear on the grooves.

There seems to be nothing wrong with the clutch action as it is, but there's no point in my mind in putting back a clutch assembly that's clearly seen better days.

So, do I fit new plates, like for like, or a 7 plate conversion? AIUI, like for like plates will cost me about £90, a conversion is around £120, plus 6 new steel plates, say £160 in total. (Bearing in mind I'm expecting now to have to fork out for a rebore that I wasn't expecting.......)

What does the panel think?
 

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