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okay guys may be in the wrong section, but I am rebuilding a 72 daytona T100R , motor rebuilt and new harness battery etc. problem I am having is the wiring have the manual for the bike , but for going batty, no handlebar controls have the horn head light switch hooki'd up headlight working as it should, but have no juice going to coils, have hooked up the kill switch as of yet still trying to figure what is what on that note, but everything is new, and I am running fuse's on both neg and positive , I realize everything is reversed on these bikes but can anyone help out with a simple wiring diagram with the color codes ??? all help will appreciated.
 

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okay guys may be in the wrong section, but I am rebuilding a 72 daytona T100R , motor rebuilt and new harness battery etc. problem I am having is the wiring have the manual for the bike , but for going batty, no handlebar controls have the horn head light switch hooki'd up headlight working as it should, but have no juice going to coils, have hooked up the kill switch as of yet still trying to figure what is what on that note, but everything is new, and I am running fuse's on both neg and positive , I realize everything is reversed on these bikes but can anyone help out with a simple wiring diagram with the color codes ??? all help will appreciated.
http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/350-500/63-74-350-500cc-Repair.pdf
 

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Thanks showed a tad bit more than the manual I have which is suppose to be the one for this bike, just trying to get things right so I don't screw the pooch so to speak on the electronics , been working on American Iron long time but this British Iron , will try ones sanity !!! L.O.L what I am find is the bike didn't have the original handlebar control's right side from the rear just has the cut off button and the left has the dimmer switch and horn button combined , what I am trying is to keep it as stock as I can but am finding three or 4 diagrams as to what was he correct one, do I have to go by the stater number to correct this again a newbie when doing British iron,
 

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in the middle of a complete rebuild on my 72 T100R, bought a new harness all new electronics , coils, capacitors , battery, etc. , motor is a fresh rebuild, , now the wierd, no handlebar controls or turn signals, right side has kill button , and according to wiring diagram connects to white and brown, ? driving me nuts, and the left side just has the old style horn button and dimmer , have all the lights working but cannot get the horn to work by the manual diagram , I know I am screwing the pooch, but worst item is no fire to the coils or points , if someone has a diagram that will help out would appreciate it , because color me crazy I cannot figure this factory diagram out seems it tells you one way to do it and I get the reverse , I have the red grounds connected as they should be, so if someone can help out would be cool thanks
 

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British Wiring (http://www.britishwiring.com) has just about everything you need: wiring harnesses, bullet connectors, wire, tools, harness tape, etc.

I have used one of their harnesses and it matched the original in every way. I've also used their components to make my own harness. The PVC harness tape works really well - no adhesive.
 

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Hi Buzz,

no handlebar controls or turn signals, right side has kill button
left side just has the old style horn button and dimmer
These:-





... the kill button inside a chromed holder attached to the handlebars with two clips, screw'n' nut? If so, you have pre-'71 switches; they're in the wiring diagram on .pdf page 246 (manual page HH4) of the .pdf Peg linked for you.

right side has kill button
according to wiring diagram connects to white and brown
Uh-uh. As you've posted you're working with a '72 T100R harness, one kill button wire should be connected to the White/Yellow (WY) wire to the coils, the other kill button wire should be connected into the White (W) wires multi-way bullets snap connector (one White wire is connected from the multi-way to the ignition switch; White wires are (should be) energised when the ignition switch is 'on').

left side just has the old style horn button and dimmer
cannot get the horn to work by the manual diagram
Pending an answer to my question above about the horn/dimmer switch, likely you won't - the horn was wired completely differently '71-on (your harness) and pre-'71 (likely your switch). :( Once you've answered that question, I might be able to suggest a way of doing it.

red grounds connected as they should be,
Be aware that, unlike most other makers, Lucas and Triumph didn't use the cycle parts as "ground"; the Red wire connections are (should be) to specific electrical components (sometimes using their mountings) and it's the Red wires' network that's the main electrical return to battery +ve, not the frame or other cycle parts.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you so much for the help, I got this bike after 3 different people worked on it and was told everything was 72, and I was going by the triumph work manual that came with it , no wonder I have been going nuts did not realize the issue , and as I said I went by the wiring diagram to hook up the dimmer switch and horn button got the lights and brake lights to work and the horn button was the issue on the dimmer switch , and of course no fire going down to the pionts, thank you for helping out
 

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Discussion Starter #8
And yes the Harness is for a 72 as I was led to believe and the wiring is off , when I use a fluke meter on it the black & red beep out when you push on the horn button,
 

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Hi Buzz,

Pleased I could help. :)

when I use a fluke meter on it the black & red beep out when you push on the horn button,
:confused: This isn't clear ...

If you've a Fluke meter and definitely the "horn button"-'n'-"dimmer switch" I pictured in my previous post:-

. First ensure the horn doesn't 'ground' through its mounting - measure between the mounting and each terminal in turn, you hope to see thousands of or infinite Ohms; if there's any continuity between the mounting and either terminal, the following won't work. :(

. Connect between the existing Brown/Blue (NU) wire and one horn terminal. If the back of your bike's ignition switch looks like this:-



... and the horn's in the standard T100 position between the frame tubes above the engine and under the front of the tank, maybe connect from the unused ignition switch terminal beside the Brown/Blue wire to one horn terminal?

. Connect the existing harness Purple/Black (PB) wire to the other horn terminal. Do not connect a Red wire to any horn terminal.

. Connect the other end of the harness Purple/Black wire to the wire in the horn button/dimmer switch that isn't used by the headlamp. If the switch you have has 'correct' wire colours, the pre-'71 horn button wire is Brown/Black (and the other wires are Blue/Red, Blue/White and plain Blue); otoh, if the switch is the more-common shonky crap, an educated guess says the horn button wire is plain Black (and the other wires are Yellow, Green and White)?

. Bear in mind the electrical return path from this horn button to battery +ve is through the switch body, its screws into the handlebars and then some indeterminate sets of contacts between sundry other bits of bike; if you think that sounds less-than-ideal ... :bluduh Best improvement is: identify where the horn button makes contact with the switch body, connect a (Red?) wire there, route it alongside the other wires to/from the switch and connect it somewhere unobtrusive to the existing harness Red wires. :thumb Failing that, a (Red?) wire connected between somewhere near the switch and the existing harness Red wires?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #10
will try this in the AM again thank you for your help and I am sure that I may have other questions for you, again thank you !!
 

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Stuart, okay got the horn problem fixed, thank you now my major issue is , no power to points , as I said before replaced coils the capictors (both ) once I connected the kill button had power to the negative side of coil , which I take as the norm , since the bike is earth ground if I am understanding this whole set up , not gonna tell ya I know a lot about this bike, since I have been riding Harleys mostly my whole life, first British iron and it is giving me heart burn L.O.L only thing that I havent replaced is the zenor Diode ??? can you direct me in what area I should be looking again thanks in advance !!
 

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Hi Buzz,

horn problem fixed,
:thumb

no power to points
once I connected the kill button had power to the negative side of coil , which I take as the norm
:nod Pre-'79 Triumphs (all(?) Britbikes) were "positive ground" as standard ("ground" = "earth" outside the US) but, in reality, all that means is simply the non-electric bits of the bike are connected to the battery +ve terminal. Where it doesn't have any effect is how the electrics work, they're still DC, there isn't any such thing as a "positive ground/earth" battery. :)

Black/White wires are connected to the drive-side (left-hand looking towards the front of the bike) coil "+" terminal, the right-hand (forward) set of points and the male spade connection on a capacitor?

Similarly, Black/Yellow wires are connected to the timing-side (right-hand looking towards the front of the bike) coil "+" terminal, the left-hand (rearmost) set of points and the male spade connection on the other capacitor? The male stud end of each capacitor is attached to the base plate, the whole "capacitor pack" is attached under the front fuel tank mounting to the frame and a Red wire is connected under one of the attaching screws/nuts?

As you're seeing power at the "-" terminals of both(?) coils where the White/Yellow wires attach, what does your meter indicate if you set it to Volts and measure between each coil "+" terminal and battery negative? It should measure the same as just connecting the meter across the battery terminals.

Power at a coil's "-" terminal but none at its "+" terminal indicates a dud coil. They should be '12V' coils so you should be able to measure between 3 and 4 Ohms between the "-" and "+" terminal. Other checks are: ~5 KOhms between the HT terminal and either LT terminal; huge number or infinite Ohms between any terminal and the coil casing.

If the meter indicates the same (12+?) Volts just across the battery and between each coil "+" terminal and battery -ve, what does it indicate when you measure between battery -ve and the end of each wire where it attaches to a points set? Then between battery -ve and the points back plate?

only thing that I havent replaced is the zenor Diode
The Zener regulates the alternator output through the rectifier into the DC electrics, so it doesn't have anything to do with ignition. If it has failed (which you can't test - absent a separate variable Volts and Amps supply - 'til the engine's running), it can only have failed open; if it'd failed closed, it'd be blowing the fuse every time you connected the battery. :)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Stuart , thanks for the info , and to answer your question , using a test light , I am showing power just on the neg. side of coil so I know I have messed up somewhere , question is where ?? I have been looking at the diagram you steered me too, and I believe I did it right but should I not be getting power to both side's ??? they are new coils and capacitors again thank you for the help
 

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Stuart , okay went over the coils , okay did the ohms check and got 3.0 and 3.5 and got 10.5 volts between the pos. side and neg. and on the B/Y & B/W wires from coils out no voltage , checked the continuity on both B/Y & B/W wires and they beeped out , so if you can think of what would cause this would appreciate the info and thanks in advance
 

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Hi Buzz,

using a test light , I am showing power just on the neg. side of coil
ohms check and got 3.0 and 3.5 and got 10.5 volts between the pos. side and neg. and on the B/Y & B/W wires from coils out no voltage
I think the problem is either a dud battery or something else dud between battery -ve and coils "-":-

. "ohms check and got 3.0 and 3.5" says the coils are OK;

. however, you shouldn't see "10.5 volts" anywhere ...

To be clear:-

. A 'good' battery fully-charged but not measuring surface charge straight after a trickle charge should measure ~12.5V across its terminals (12.6V to be pedantic :)).

. With the ignition switch on, you should be able to measure the same Volts between:-

.. coil "-" and battery +ve;

.. coil "+" and battery -ve;

.. i.e. no 'Volts drop' between battery -ve and coil "-" or between coil "+" and battery +ve (unless the points are open, in which case turn the engine 'til the points are closed).

. Similarly, using a test light, ignition on:-

.. lead connected to battery +ve, if you touch the light anywhere between a coil "-" and battery -ve, the light should ... errr ... light; :)

.. lead connected to battery -ve, if you touch the light anywhere between a coil "+" and battery +ve, including the engine, the light should light.

Possible reasons for seeing "10.5 volts", or the test light not lighting:-

. Dud battery - battery shows ~12.5V with everything switched off but, as soon as the ignition is switched on and it has to supply ~7 Amps to the coils (both sets of points closed), it can't. If you have a Voltmeter (or multi-meter set to Volts) connected across the battery when you switch on the ignition, if the battery is dud, the Volts reading will drop noticeably when the ignition's switched on.

. If a meter across the battery shows ~12.5V both with everything off and ignition on, but the meter shows 10.5V when connected between a coil "-" and battery +ve, something is bad between battery -ve and coil "-". Risking telling you something you know already:-

.. leave one meter lead connected to battery +ve and move the other meter lead to connections progressively back towards battery -ve - i.e. move the meter lead from coil "-" to first the connection between kill switch wire and White/Yellow wire, then to the connection between the other kill switch wire and White wires, then to the connection between White wire and ignition switch, then to the connection between Brown/Blue wire and ignition switch, then to each connection between Brown/Blue wire and fuse;

.. at one of those tests, the meter should indicate higher than 10.5V (if you're lucky it'll be the same reading as when connected across the battery); a fault is between that tested connection and the previous one. :thumb

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Stuart okay went over every thing , have 13.5 volts on the Battery , and 10.5 between pos and neg on the coil , I made sure the B/y wire and B/W wire where connected as they are suppose to be , check the cont. form coil to cap. and they beeped out and from cap down to points and they beeped out , my question could I have crossed a wire somewhere in the head light bucket ? and this would cause the problem ???
as I said have everything working as it should but it seems I screwed up on something minor and would running a fuse on the pos.terminal of Battery cause an issue , and I had someone tell me that this bike should not have a ing. capacitor . I know that is run as it should be but , just trying to figure out where I screwed up , thanks in advance
 

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Hi Buzz,

13.5 volts on the Battery , and 10.5 between pos and neg on the coil
Uh-uh, this is an error either in measurement, terminology or understanding:-

. "13.5 volts on the Battery" is measured with one meter lead on the battery -ve terminal and the other meter lead on the battery +ve terminal? If yes:-

.. engine not running, the battery is the sole source of electrical power;

.. battery -ve is connected to the coils' "-" terminals by the Brown/Blue wire, the fuse, the ignition switch, the White wires, the kill button and the White/Yellow wire;

.. similarly, the coils' "+" terminals are connected to battery +ve by the Black/White or Black/Yellow wires, the points and backplate, the engine and a Red wire between the engine and battery +ve.

. There cannot be any Volts drop between battery -ve and the coils' "-" terminals, nor between the coils' "+" terminals and battery +ve.

. Therefore, with the ignition on and points closed, if you connect your meter between battery -ve and a coil's "+" terminal, or between a coil's "-" terminal and battery +ve, the meter must still indicate "13.5 volts".

. However,, with the ignition on and points closed:-

.. if you connect your meter between battery -ve and a coil's "+" terminal and see only "10.5", there's Volts drop/a problem somewhere between battery -ve and the coil's "-" terminal;

.. similarly, if you connect your meter between a coil's "-" terminal and battery +ve and see only "10.5", there's Volts drop/a problem somewhere between the coil's "+" terminal and battery +ve. :(

Please clarify from the above where and how you're seeing "10.5 [Volts]"?

check the cont. form coil to cap.
and from cap down to points
This is an aside but would I be right in thinking - looking at, say, the Black/White wires - there's one female spade terminal crimped around the ends of two wires, one of those wires has another female spade on the other end, the other wire has a bullet terminal on the other end? And same for the Black/Yellow wires?

If so - while I'm guessing you've connected the bullet terminals to the corresponding bullet terminals on the wires to the corresponding points ring terminals(?) - you've connected the spade terminals with a single wire to the corresponding coils' "+" terminals and the spade terminals with two wires to the capacitors' terminals? If so again, as standard, they were normally connected the other way 'round - spade terminals with two wires to the corresponding coils' "+" terminals and spade terminals with a single wire to the the capacitors' terminals.

would running a fuse on the pos.terminal of Battery cause an issue
No.

had someone tell me that this bike should not have a ing. capacitor
As long as that's simply connected across the battery (one connection to the Brown/Blue wire, the other to a Red wire), basically shouldn't be an issue. Only thing to watch with any capacitor is they have a finite life and, when they reach the end, they start doing things like draining the battery ... :bluduh

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Stuart , okay Don't know if you read the other post, but some questions as to weather or no I am reading the diagram correct, the red wires near horn and capacitor one I left disconnected that was for the horn , which is a double with a square push in style connector , the others where for the capacitors , my question I am looking at diagram do each capacitor get a red wire to the back side of them ??? that is about the only thing I am thinking , and does this bike require the ing.Capacitor ?? and I went threw the stater to make sure it wasn't ground , it wasn't and still have power to only one side of coils at 10.5 volt's, and at the battery I have 13.5 Now my big question is do you think I may have crossed a wire in the bucket, and would using a fuse on the + terminal of Battery cause a drop , on American rides I know it wouldn't but like I said before I am a newbie with the British iron, thanks in advance , and if you can send me your e-mail
 

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Hi Buzz,

power to only one side of coils at 10.5 volt's, and at the battery I have 13.5
Just to be clear, you're seeing the 10.5V with the meter connected between either coil "-" terminal and battery +ve?

would using a fuse on the + terminal of Battery cause a drop
I did answer this in my previous post, but no, unless the fuse itself has some sort of problem. Do you have another fuse? If yes, swap them?

the red wires near horn and capacitor one I left disconnected that was for the horn
:nod Because of the way you've had to connect the horn to the horn button on the handlebars.

the others where for the capacitors
do each capacitor get a red wire to the back side of them ?
Uh-uh. Hopefully to clarify:-

. if you look at the parts manual for your bike, manual page 72 (.pdf page 74) is titled, "T100C IGNITION CAPACITOR AND HEADLAMP";

. regrettably, the illustration, listing and title are confusing :Not again - the complete "CAPACITOR PACK - 2CP" ("Ref. No." 20) was/is fitted to all twins with points; each individual "Capacitor" ("Ref. No." 21) within the "PACK" is connected 'in parallel' with one set of points;

. aside, all points have a capacitor (aka "condenser") in parallel, to prevent (most of) the sparking that would otherwise occur as the points open and close, which erodes the points rapidly.

On your bike:-

. As you posted, "the red wires near horn and capacitor", I'm guessing the complete "CAPACITOR PACK" is mounted under the front fuel tank mounting strip attached to the frame?

. Just the the male spade ends of the two individual capacitors protrude from the "PACK" rubber cover?

. If so, each coil and points set has one of the condensers connected 'in parallel' by:-

.. a Black/White wire from the timing-side coil "+" terminal to one Capacitor spade terminal;

.. a Black/Yellow wire from the drive-side coil "+" terminal to the other Capacitor spade terminal;

.. a Red wire between one of the "CAPACITOR PACK" mounting screws ("Ref. No." 25 or 26) and the harness; only this one Red wire is necessary for both capacitors as they're both mounted on the PACK's metal "Base plate" ("Ref. No." 23).

does this bike require the ing.Capacitor ?
As above, because your bike has points, it does require the "Capacitors" in the "CAPACITOR PACK".

However, also on those parts manual pages is ("Ref. No." 1) "Ignition capacitor", :rolleyes: this is what I thought you were referring to:-

had someone tell me that this bike should not have a ing. capacitor
... and I answered:-

As long as that's simply connected across the battery (one connection to the Brown/Blue wire, the other to a Red wire),
As well as the part numbers in the manual, that particular capacitor is aka "2MC" and is often anodised a blue colour. It's likely shown on the "T100C" parts manual pages because the T100C was aimed more at off-road riders and racers, who probably wouldn't want the problems of a lead-acid battery if the bike fell over; connected in place of the battery, the 2MC stores an electrical charge from kicking over the engine to start it. Some road-bike owners also fitted a 2MC in addition to the battery, in case the battery went flat, the bike could still be started to get home. The downside is, as I say, when any capacitor dies, it actually flattens the battery itself. :Darn

I went threw the stater to make sure it wasn't ground
Like your earlier question about the Zener diode, :thumb but nothing to do with ignition, and isolated from the DC wiring by the rectifier.

if you can send me your e-mail
You can always send me a Private Message through the site?

Hth.

Regards,
 
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