[DAVE M]

AFAIk there are only two types of OIF USA tank ( slimline)

the earlier ones and the later (seamless) ones.

 

[Scramble On]

Your bike looks amazing, what a cool ride!
I bet those pipes sound incredible.
Nice work man.

 

[broganh]

It got some rides, and mostly sat while i was doing some travel. Rego ran out so i went to do a few odd jobs and re-register, only to notice a knock movement in main-shaft.
Stripped it down and had full bottom end reubuild done a couple years ago. Scrubbed out the frame and got the engine offered up and fitted with new fixings, and that's where it's sat since. work and life got in the way.

Trying to muster some motivation again to complete it - will be a fully rebuilt bike by the time its done, all bar checking the frame for straightness and repainting.
A few additional projects have half-started, such as fitting an oil-pressure guage, norton style external oil filter below swingarm, mini kill-switch via relay, rebuilding the rocker boxes, and and exhaust to something that will accept some mufflers. I'd also like to see if i can to convert the higher output bates KD lamp bulb to LED to help the battery/charging system, but as I never intend to do much night riding, I will get to that eventually...

 

[broganh]

Picked up some parts yesterday. Pair of cocktail exhaust mufflers to appease rego and my ears.

In process of fitting an oil pressure gauge, I’ve grabbed a tap & die to figure out this nps/npt adapting properly - with the thought I’d rework a tee piece, keep the idiot light in dash and engine-mount the gauge down low but somewhere in view at a glance…

but, im now stuck with decisions again…:
1. Go minimalist cockpit and run a tee, with idiot light and maybe even one of those sparkbright style charging voltage monitor LED’s to go with it.
or,
2. lose the idiot lights altogether and just run the little gauge up in the cockpit instead of down on engine, maybe with a mini chrome speedo to match it (opens more challenges with speedo gearing, I just bloody went and replaced the rear hub speedo drive gear with a new emgo repop 25:1 too… -.- )

it’d be a bit modern and run of the mill cafe-racer -esque to have a cheapo mini-speedo I know, but I had no speedo at all prior. I just went with the traffic and had a pretty good feel of gear and engine revs for the main speed limits, and always erring on side of caution with how fast I was going.

(Forgetting the bobber factor for a second); I’ve just always loved the clean cockpit on this factory metalworks beesa and would really love to run it more stripped back like this but know it’s not the most practical. The Less to look at, the better one can enjoy the road, I really feel.

Heavenly Hardtail: Factory Metal Works BSA A65

Classic hardtails aren't our regular fare, but we can't resist the subtle beauty of a Factory Metal Works build. Three years, shop boss Lucas Joyner blew our socks off with an amazing Triumph built for Mooneyes. And now he's back with a beautiful BSA A65, its lovely engine cradled in a...

www.bikeexif.com

Also going to switch back to the standard bars as the low rise put a bit too much weight on the hands

 

[broganh]

Question for the gurus, knowing the bike had a lot of original parts still in it (never rebuilt) but also that a lot of it was over due/flogged out, I’ve half a mind to replace the carbs.
Just dreading the tuning process after the fresh rebuild and needing running in proper, but don’t like replacing things for the sake of it.

At what stage are slides/carb bodies just too loose or flogged out to attempt to deal with? Bite the bullet, replace em and be done with it?

or have another go with the originals but now on fresh cables. and if still too fiddly then fork the $600+ ?

am I over thinking the engine idling too long before being run-in, while tuning after a fresh rebuild?

 

[GrandPaulZ]

At what stage are slides/carb bodies just too loose or flogged out to attempt to deal with? Bite the bullet, replace em and be done with it?

or have another go with the originals but now on fresh cables. and if still too fiddly then fork the $600+ ?

am I over thinking the engine idling too long before being run-in, while tuning after a fresh rebuild?

If you've gone top to bottom, inside out on the carbs, with 100% certainty, and it's still not running right, YES, you PROBABLY need new carbs.

HOWEVER, you'd best be bloody sure EVERY other system is operating at 100%- ignition, battery, valves, timing, etc.

There has been more than one report of a person installing brand new Amal Premiers (after cleaning them), and STILL having issues. If I remember correctly it's almost always something in the ignition, silly things like resistor caps AND resistor plugs (that's a no-no).

You can run the engine while tuning, but use a big fan blowing on the front of the engine. Limit it to a few minutes at a time.

 

[broganh]

Remounted the original? Western bars for better height. An example of how I had the Lucas warning light tubes fitted - perfect snug tight into the wire fork-mount holes in the top yoke. Have my oil light in one and considered putteing a voltage indicator mounted inside the other.

Always freaking at the thought of carb slides sticking, and having to reach under my leg for the key, I fit the smallest kill switch (engine run switch - ie it’s not “momentary”), runs via a simple relay mounted in frame void between gussets behind head tube.

And mocking up what cluttering up the front will look like if I ditch the warning lights, and use those holes for some brackets to mount the pressure gauge and speedo.
Rather keep it bare, but probably most practical…

 

[broganh]

Todays job, rebuilding rocker boxes. Need to work out what order all these washers went in. Seems to be a lot of copper ones not sure if that was correct…

 

[broganh]

Rewinding things back a step, just found a bunch of pics from the engine rebuild. After reading @Dr. Zo build thread I’d wished I’d seen the alternator rotor/hub wobble issue prior to getting a full rebuild.

none the less happy to have had it done as it needed it.

sludge trap wasn’t too bad or too blocked up. Crank nose needed dressing due to someone taking to it with a hammer.

after having it apart and starting to go back together, engine builder realised jugs needed another rebore. Previous machine shop I used was a modern bike shop, fine grit smooth hone, tight tolerances, and left a some pitting in the bores which just wouldn’t fly. So another top end rebore now from 40thou to 60. and pistons & rings went in. In hindsight, wished I’d known about pitting and severity at the start, and considered a morgo 750 from the get go…

My 71 is with the 4speed and 47t rear. I upped engine sprocket to a 20 tooth.

I’ve not got it back together yet but already to tell for sure, but already wished I listened to the British bike mech and went up to the 21t like he’d suggested while it was apart, won’t get a taller gear in there now without pulling down gearbox again ( I won’t cut/notch the case)… and now I’m already of the idea the gearing change mightn’t be enough for my liking with the 20t…

Still Learning lessons, always too late …

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

rebuilding rocker boxes.

Can of worms, for various reasons ...

washers
Seems to be a lot of copper ones

There should be only four copper washers total, one each side of each feed banjo.

Need to work out what order all these washers went in.

In theory, there is a sketch in the '71/'72 workshop manual; in practice it's wrong ... (shows the pre-'68 assembly order).

You should follow the order shown in the '72 parts book - (hardened steel) plain washer each side of each rocker, Thackeray washer between plain washer and side of rocker-box. However, even that isn't completely correct, it continues to show/list the 3/8" ID (E1330) washer at the feed end of each shaft; you'll need to replace each with another E1575 (1/2" ID).

Nevertheless, before beginning assembly, you'll need to decide whether to have the rocker shafts 'grooved', which should have been done since the '68 changes ...

Background
During '68, BSA R&D at Umberslade Hall advised a number of changes, primarily to avoid the cost of drilling rocker arms (which could also weaken them) and pushrod balls for lubrication.

Meriden made that change but - imho in a pretty-poor abdication of management responsibility - didn't make the associated changes to either rocker shafts (machining an oil transfer scroll on the shaft) or the washers assembly order, both of which were necessary to maintain the lubrication previously supplied through the aforementioned drillings. The result is, while the rockers and actuation continues to 'work', it isn't for as long.

@Shippy posted he had a straight oil-transfer groove cut in his 500's rocker shafts with a simple Dremel.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[broganh]

Can of worms, for various reasons ...

Thanks Stuart! Yes so it seems.
I made a thread last year with a few queries which I’ve booked marked, there’s posts and links in there with lots of great info - albeit a confusing can of worms as you mentioned, due to all the models/washer & groove iterations, and opinions on alternate (updated) methods;

Notchy Rockers

Hi all, Thanks in advance for the help of all your knowledge! 71 650 OIF Got the rocker boxes off currently and felt some binding/notchy type feeling in rocker movement when rotating on shaft by hand. May well be that it’s the point they go to from pushrod/valve extension and I’m rotating them...

www.triumphrat.net

I don’t think I’ll opt to cut grooves in shafts. I think I’ll read, and re-read, and just opt to go with the most ideal washer setup with the standard solid (un-cut) rocker arms and shafts (which I think is very much as per your suggestion above ie losing the 3/8 washer).

Thanks for clarification!!

 

[broganh]

Little more progress on the oil gauge idea - teeing to run a pressure switch. @TR7RVMan made a good suggestion, to try testing my pressure switch. Had a fiddle this arvo with a test light, tapped a nps theread inside a blank end of a bsp fitting I won’t use, and offered it up in a bike pump on a battery.

I read somewhere the switches are set for 7-11psi. gauge wasn’t very detailed at lower pressures, but I reckon it barely pushed 7 before switching. Likely around 5, too low for my liking!

Also reading around that at revs it’s can be in the 50-80lbs, and in the 20-25 at idle. Given this would it be that bad an idea to fit a generic switch more suited, say one preset for 20psi… ?

20 PSI 1/8 NPT Low oil pressure switch Universal warning light Speco 545-10 | eBay

1 x Speco Pressure switch (not an oil pressure sensor). 1/8-27" NPT thread. Ideal for cutting ignition on low oil pressure or to trigger a warning light. Thread 1/8-27" NPT male. Contents 1 x switch. Suitable for oil.

www.ebay.com.au

 

[GrandPaulZ]

When I first got my beater '67 Bonnie "bomber" (rattle can black, leaking oil everywhere and smoking badly) I must have ridden it a year without sufficient oil getting to the rockers. Didn't seem to hurt or even discolor anything... Same parts went back in when I restored it, and it was still humming right along when I sold it almost 25 years later.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

oil gauge
teeing to run a pressure switch.
switches are set for 7-11psi.
gauge wasn’t very detailed at lower pressures, but I reckon it barely pushed 7 before switching. Likely around 5,

Depends. Your photo. shows you're testing a pattern switch, not an original Smiths. If that pattern switch is NPS thread, it's sold as a replacement for the '74-on switch, which Smiths supposedly rated for 3 psi ...

at revs it’s can be in the 50-80lbs, and in the 20-25 at idle. Given this would it be that bad an idea to fit a generic switch more suited, say one preset for 20psi… ?

It would be a bad idea, unless you want to be freaked after every spirited run in hot weather ... then the pressure can fall well below 20 psi, although still be perfectly-adequate.

The whole idea of oil pressure switches on Triumphs and BSA's was a mortally-stupid one, because no-one actually knew how widely the oil pressure varied between hot tickover and cold maximum. Cue dealers inundated with punters complaining about oil pressure warning lamps flashing at tickover on their new bikes; strip-downs rarely if ever found any lubrication-related problems; cue the factories fitting lower- and lower-pressure switches ... 😖 Otoh, if a twin runs 50-60 psi above about 3,500 rpm when hot (and a triple 70-85 psi), if an OPW lamp switched by even a 20 psi switch comes on when the engine's above that 3,500 rpm, the engine's donald already. 😖

If an engine maker's going to fit an oil pressure switch, far-and-away the more-important manufacturing requirement is consistently-good oil pressure at all rpm for hundreds of thousands of miles in every engine made. For this reason, engine makers apart from Meriden haven't fitted feeble plunger oil pumps for decades,

If you're running an old Britbike, knowing you'll never have consistently-good oil pressure at all rpm for hundreds of thousands of miles, if you must be able to monitor pressure in real-time, only a gauge works. However, then you must learn what the gauge is telling you - e.g. after the aforementioned "spirited run in hot weather", the pressure from particularly a twin's weedy oil pump will be lower than what even the Triumph workshop manuals say. Is it a problem? Only you'll know by stripping your engine ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[broganh]

Right then.
bugger the switch, even runnin a gauge now makes me feel it’ll just be “in my face/on my mind” the whole time.
I’ll build it, mount a gauge out of the way for periodic monitoring now that it has an oil filter, and just ride the thing. At the rate I’ve been moving with rebuilding this thing it’s not like I’ll manage to have it ridden daily

 

[broganh]

Have been busy with other things but still ticking along;

I don’t think I’ll opt to cut grooves in shafts. I think I’ll read, and re-read, and just opt to go with the most ideal washer setup with the standard solid (un-cut) rocker arms and shafts (which I think is very much as per your suggestion above ie losing the 3/8 washer).

Was reading up on those efforts of folks having rocker shafts grooved for an oil way either with dremels and jigs or via the expense of a machine shop (i'm not thrilled on either), and noticed this point made;

I’ve reassembled the rocker boxes in the same way as they came off the bike i.e. the “incorrect” workshop manual method. Reasons are that my attempt to mod the old shafts wasn’t successful and I received a negative response form a well respected old bike mechanic based in Wales. Without the additional oil-way re-arranging the thackery & thrust washers is of little benefit and in fact gave me a new problem of the shaft sliding too far into the rocker box….so I’ve left as is and will live with the consequences if there are any.

As per the above, does anyone know if there is any advantage to rearranging washers without grooving shaft? If no clear benefit I may have to go ahead and assemble as per factory manual...?

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

anyone know if there is any advantage to rearranging washers without grooving shaft? If no clear benefit I may have to go ahead and assemble as per factory manual...?

You should follow the order shown in the '72 parts book

Ummm ... if there wasn't an advantage/benefit, why would Meriden have changed the washers order in the '72 parts book (admittedly still a half-arsed change), and then machined the oil scroll on the rocker shafts from '73? Parts books were reissued every year, workshop manuals were only updated, at best. Afaict, reassembling '72 rockers "as per factory manual" (workshop manual?) is probably the worst you can do?

rocker shafts grooved for an oil way either with dremels and jigs or via the expense of a machine shop (i'm not thrilled on either), and noticed this point made;

With respect, you have not noticed, or ignored, more important things in the same thread:-

. It's a 500, rocker feed isn't the same as a 650.

The groove dimensions are not critical and can be done with a Dremel. An alternative is to grind a shallow flat on the shaft. Whether using a groove or a flat on the shaft, they should be positioned at the top in the unloaded area between the rocker and the shaft. I made a pop mark at the outer end of my shaft to able to confirm the correct position of the shaft when assembling and tightening things up.

When the bikes were new, any factory's primary criterion was cost - the cheaper they could build it, the more profit made when it was sold. Coupled with that was the tiny warranty period before any problems became the bike owner's. We aren't governed by those criteria; why wouldn't we do it better, especially when the fix isn't complicated?

Hth.

Regards,

 

[broganh]

thanks for the feedback Stu!
I've since found this video from the 1:03:03 mark quite a good clear explanation.

Regarding carbs, definitely seems to be nothing Amal Premier available anytime soon in Aus.
I thoroughly studied the tolerance in the slides and bodies, and settled for new hard-andodized slides and gasket/seals throughout (done seals and gaskets before but wanted to be more thorough). Started with boiling them down in lemon juice for a more thorough clean up. Rubbed down down after with a light bit of autosol and then some carb cleaner.
I re-cleaned/gouged out my idle jets, dressed bowl faces (poor mating/alignment to carb body), installed and set stay-up floats. The amal gaskets are such better quality than generic

And also that I noticed a split in one of the idle screw o-rings in the process (I now realise and hope this wasn't the sole cause of all my idle/pickup woes prior!). The floats also would stick prior on tickling causing a petrol mess. Now far more confident that they've every chance to operate close to 100% so here's hoping.

 

[broganh]

Got the oil pressure gauge roughed up with a little steel bracket, will pull down and trim up/paint.

I ran a NPS die over an Npt tee fitting, did it up a nip past finger tight and used a quality pipe sealant on threads (easily undone - similar to nyloc). Tapped out the opposite female for parallel pressure switch, and ran standard npt copper oil line kit to gauge. No leaks!

 

[newsh]

Nice job
Love you’re little spiral pipe