Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got my reproduction owner's manual in the mail today, and the diagrams have one horn button, and an offset headlight switch. Mine's in the center, and I have several switches on a small module that looks to be original. Anyone know if these were swaps?
720995

720996
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
165 Posts
Not familiar with this model but that is just a cheap, general purpose horn/light dipping switch. The stockers had screws directly into the bars, at least the bigger bikes did, and you can get pretty faithful repos. And it was common to have a headlight mounted on/off switch, although yours doesn't have much left of the handle. Looks like it might be stock.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,896 Posts
Hi,

reproduction owner's manual
diagrams have one horn button, and an offset headlight switch. Mine's in the center, and I have several switches on a small module that looks to be original.
swaps?
@Streetiger is partially correct about the handlebar switch cluster. The one in your upper image is the aforementioned cheap, general purpose horn button and headlamp dipswitch. However, in "screws directly into the bars", he's thinking of the bigger contemporary Triumphs; your bike originally had:-

. just a Lucas 76204 horn button clamped around the left handlebar;

. the "offset headlight switch" is a Lucas 31620 push-button dipswitch (aka high/low switch?) mounted in the headlamp shell, possibly where the left-hand idiot lamp is in your lower image;

. the lamps off-pilot-head switch is the central toggle switch, just the lever is missing the plastic part over the protruding steel part.

Depending how original you want to be and how much you want to spend:-

. Klempf's British Parts. SWITCH, HORN, KILL, CHR, REPO is a $20 'Wassell Lucas' repro. 76204 horn button, Mitch also lists OEM for $62.50 or Baxter has OEM for $100;

. Klempf's British Parts. SWITCH, DIP, PUSH BTTN, USED is used (oem?) 31620 dipswitch for $37.50 or he has new OEM for $100 ...

When considering originality, be aware the push-button dipswitch is a pita to use; however, given the feeble standard headlamp, you might not be planning much night riding? :cool:

Otoh, say if you'd like ideas for more-user-friendly switches (without changes to the wiring).

Btw, also depending how original you want to be, the idiot lamp on the right-hand side of the headlamp shell should be red and is (was originally) the high-beam warning.

reproduction owner's manual
I don't know how much you paid for a reproduction but brand-new originals are available either direct from the British publisher or from any decent Triumph spares retailer.

The Owner's Handbook is ok as far as it goes; however, I'd strongly advise obtaining the proper Workshop Manual, again from either of the above sources, and making use of the free-to-read parts book on the British Only website.

Using the latter, you can usually use an internet search engine to find both modern images of any given part and retailers with stock. In the case of the switches, the parts book lists both the Triumph and (bracketed) Lucas part numbers; in each case, entering either "triumph " or "lucas " plus the appropriate number into your preferred internet search engine would've found the links I've posted. :)

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,702 Posts
From what I have read about the dip/main in the headlamp switch, it was unreliable, and close to dangerous. You had to take your hand off the bars to push the switch, and grab the bar again. After a bit of use, the switches were temperamental and might/might not switch - even sometimes just sticking half way and plunging the rider into darkness unless thumped again. By all means stick a look alike in there but I'd favour a thumb operated one
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Hi,


@Streetiger is partially correct about the handlebar switch cluster. The one in your upper image is the aforementioned cheap, general purpose horn button and headlamp dipswitch. However, in "screws directly into the bars", he's thinking of the bigger contemporary Triumphs; your bike originally had:-

. just a Lucas 76204 horn button clamped around the left handlebar;

. the "offset headlight switch" is a Lucas 31620 push-button dipswitch (aka high/low switch?) mounted in the headlamp shell, possibly where the left-hand idiot lamp is in your lower image;

. the lamps off-pilot-head switch is the central toggle switch, just the lever is missing the plastic part over the protruding steel part.

Depending how original you want to be and how much you want to spend:-

. Klempf's British Parts. SWITCH, HORN, KILL, CHR, REPO is a $20 'Wassell Lucas' repro. 76204 horn button, Mitch also lists OEM for $62.50 or Baxter has OEM for $100;

. Klempf's British Parts. SWITCH, DIP, PUSH BTTN, USED is used (oem?) 31620 dipswitch for $37.50 or he has new OEM for $100 ...

When considering originality, be aware the push-button dipswitch is a pita to use; however, given the feeble standard headlamp, you might not be planning much night riding? :cool:

Otoh, say if you'd like ideas for more-user-friendly switches (without changes to the wiring).

Btw, also depending how original you want to be, the idiot lamp on the right-hand side of the headlamp shell should be red and is (was originally) the high-beam warning.


I don't know how much you paid for a reproduction but brand-new originals are available either direct from the British publisher or from any decent Triumph spares retailer.

The Owner's Handbook is ok as far as it goes; however, I'd strongly advise obtaining the proper Workshop Manual, again from either of the above sources, and making use of the free-to-read parts book on the British Only website.

Using the latter, you can usually use an internet search engine to find both modern images of any given part and retailers with stock. In the case of the switches, the parts book lists both the Triumph and (bracketed) Lucas part numbers; in each case, entering either "triumph " or "lucas " plus the appropriate number into your preferred internet search engine would've found the links I've posted. :)

Hth.

Regards,

Thank you for the great info. I ended up grabbing your first linked for the horn button, but from here:
Lucas Type 7/8

Just in case anyone's interested in progress, I'll keep updating this thread-

I had to pull the cheap aftermarket mutli-switch- had a short and even the slightest touch was causing the lights to flicker. Originally I gather that the only wire going to the handlebar was the horn- it looks like things have been reworked substantially in the headlight, which I counted on from your notes on where the dipswitch should have been, now being a green idiot light. I did notice that the front brake does not trigger the brake light (rear does), and the tail light is not working, but that may well be the red and blue wire I snipped the rusted end off of in the image (I'm guessing from a diagram I found on Google). Headlight is out as well.. but I haven't checked the bulb. It did work the other day when I was running the bike, but it looked like a bad connection or a bulb just barely hanging on. Pilot light bulb is also missing, but is connected inside of the headlight case. The red/orange warning light doesn't have any internals, so I plan on hunting that down. I won't be making any real fixes, besides dropping in a horn button, until I have a workshop manual with reliable wiring diagrams. The temporary state of things is below. The horn button will be connected via the brown wire. The rest will likely be shrink tubed for now until I get a game plan on the rest.

Thanks folks,

Ryan

721145
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,182 Posts
Hi Ryan, Absolutely I'm interested in your progress. We all learn more when owners share their experiences. Please keep posting. Photos are most helpful & interesting.

Putting what owners did in perspective, there was a time when factory parts were very hard to obtain. There was a long strike, then co-op didn't support old bikes for the most part. Even hard to get new parts for current production. No web then. Most shops closed down. Now it's fairly easy to get most parts. However quality is dubious. Every new part must be carefully checked/inspected/tested for install best you can. Every one!

So owners did the best they could with what they could get & more importantly the skill level they had. For the most part there were very few shops to have Brit bikes worked on. Even then the workmanship depended on the mechanic. Quality parts were lacking so many just had to make do best they could. Information was very hard to come by. Really took skill & determination be have successful repairs.

Now we have the web & groups like this. Stuart is a fount of knowledge on these bikes. Many of the old guys have passed. They are missed!

Looking into your headlamp shell I see a few things to look out for. Where wires go through a hole especially in tin there is great danger of insulation rubbing through & wire shorting to side of hole. One hole has deteriorated rubber, the other rubber is missing. You can purchase rubbers from parts sellers or sometimes hardware stores. Plastic bushings work well also depending on the situation. Point is protect from damage.

When wires run in an area where they flex such as along steering stem to headlamp, don't tape wires in a tight bundle. This promotes wires breaking inside insulation, which can be hard to find/diagnose. Wire jacket that slips over wire bundle is better. Various types available. Be mindful of slack so wire is neither pinched or stretched when fully turning bars. Easier said than done sometimes, but we do our best.

Triumph's bullet connectors (snap connectors) may not be the best way, but it's what Triumph did.... See how bullet is peeking out of the double connector to head lamp bulb? Red is earth so not critical, but it is most important to make sure the bullet is fully inserted into the steel tube(bushing). Then the connectors are accurately centered in rubber sleeve. I've seen many shorts & blown fuse & a smoked alternator because there was bullet peeking out of sleeve causing a short.

Replacement connectors are easy to come by from parts sellers. Sometimes the new reproduction tubes are actually worse at holding bullets than old one. I have many times pushed connector out new sleeve & used new sleeve on old connectors.

Every last connector should be taken apart, inspected & cleaned. Electrical connector cleaning sprays are sold. Clean all the tubes on the inside. Clean out side of bullets. I like dielectric grease(paste) on all connectors. Vaseline works also. I personally like actual dielectric grease. Ace Hardware & auto parts stores sell it. Any brand seems good.

Dielectric grease smeared around light bulb side & tip is good too. Notice white powder like substance on headlamp bulb bayonet. I clean that off & put dielectric on bayonet also. That part passes electricity so it gets dielectric grease. Water has a way of getting everywhere in a rain ride. It just happens. Nice sunny day & then unexpected rain.

To remove bullets from old hard sleeves, warm sleeve with heat gun or hair drier, being mindful to not melt wires!! Just enough to soften rubber. Push rubber back onto wire so tube is exposed. Use pocket screw driver & twist between end of tube & shoulder of bullet. There is a special tool for this job also should you want one. Spreader pliers with slotted ends to grab shoulder of bullet. I don't have the special tool.

Bullets come in crimp or solder on. Crimp seems more vibration resistant, but you must have good crimp. Special tool is sold. Solder must be good too of course. Study britishwiring.com We
I put dielectric grease on wire before crimping into bullet.

Even the wire under Zener bracket must be cleaned as well as bracket faces. Zener can/will corrode on it's threads, so need to be checked & cleaned. Heat sink grease is good on Zener threads/face, but dielectric is better than nothing.

All wires that go around sharp edge of frame must be protected/routed such the insulation cannot chafe through. Zip tie wires as needed. Wires left loose to vibrate/flop around are more subject to breaking wire inside insulation from the constant flexing work hardening the copper strands.

It takes hours to do all this. However if you are diligent you will be rewarded with many trouble free miles. Most of the Lucas demons can be thwarted by proper inspection & assembly. I know this from much experience. The devil is in the details. We ride far from cell service with no chase trucks. We must have good electrics. This goes a long way to give you that.

I don't know how good the repro switches are. That's a problem that is hard to solve. I've had good results with original horn/dip switches which can still be found. You may have to modify wiring as needed to use decent quality switches. Thing is they look "correct" for any British bike. Seems your not going to show bike so thoughtful modifications can be a good plan. I personally don't like the look of modern switches on old bikes, but that's just me.

My Tiger Cub has push button dip switch on headlamp shell. I hate it. I think it's dangerous too. But it's still there. I think I'll put bar mounted switch on it when I get it back on road.

Really that bike is in pretty good shape. Most of the old bikes are just beat & butchered to the max.
Don
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,896 Posts
Hi Ryan,

Just in case anyone's interested in progress,
As Don posted, absolutely; one of the primary reasons for this (and similar) internet forums is to share knowledge of these old heaps to get 'em going and keep 'em there. (y)

Then, if you're going to work on the electrics:-

. First, if you don't have one already, buy a decent multi-meter - by "decent", I don't necessarily mean expensive but I particularly do mean one with electro-magnetic interference (emi) protection - e.g. aiui, in the US, "Harbor Fright" sell cheap ones that don't have such protection. :(

. Second, ascertain that your bike is still standard 'positive ground' - it isn't uncommon for DPO to convert to 'negative ground' but use the original wire colours ... ? Post if/when you have the meter and I or someone else'll post how to ascertain the 'ground'. (y)

horn button, but from here: Lucas Type 7/8
front brake does not trigger the brake light
horn button will be connected via the brown wire.
Uh-uh.

If there's a plain Brown wire at the front of the bike, that - along with a White wire - is for the front brake switch. Unless your bike's rear lamp is a pattern replacement, the two wires into it are Brown/Green and plain Brown; note the bulb brake filament contact is on the end of the Brown wire? Also the two wires at the rear brake switch are plain White and plain Brown? The colours are a standard Lucas code. :)

On front drum brakes, the switch was a fat black cylinder in the cable with two 1/4"-wide male spade terminals (corresponding crimped female spade terminals and insulation on the White and Brown wires). Your bike might not have a front brake switch, either because BSA/Triumph was too cheap to fit 'em originally or there's a long- and widely-held belief that the switch causes 'sponginess' in the 'feel' when braking. Fwiw, my T150 (probably two or three times the weight of your 250) has the switch in the front brake cable and I've never noticed any such 'sponginess' ... :whistle:

Absent being able to check a wiring diagram, I believe the horn is wired on your bike the same way as bigger Triumphs:-

. The horn must be fully-insulated from its mounting bracket (should be ascertained with your meter).

. One terminal has a Brown/Blue (insulation mainly Brown with one or two thin Blue tracer lines) wire connected to the Brown/Blue wire attached to battery -ve (this means the horn is 'live' all the time the battery's connected, this is why it has to be insulated from its mounting).

. The other horn terminal should have a Brown/Black wire, which is connected to the handlebar button.

Be aware this standard horn wiring is very cheap and mickey-mouse. The absolutely essential electrical 'return' from the handlebar button to battery +ve is some unknown path through sundry metal bits of bike. :cool: You can massively improve on this by attaching a new Red (standard insulation colour for wires connected unswitched to battery +ve) wire between a handlebar clamp bolt and an existing Red wires' bullet snap connector.

tail light is not working, but that may well be the red and blue wire I snipped the rusted end off
Uh-uh again. Tail lamp is (should be) connected to terminal #7 of the 3-position Lighting lever switch by a Brown/Green (similar to above, insulation mainly Brown with one or two thin Green tracer lines) wire.

You'd be wise to ascertain that you're working with the correct Lighting lever switch and it's connected correctly. To do this, you'll need to remove the switch from the headlamp shell (unscrew the nut around the switch lever) and find both the 5-figure switch ID number and the eight terminal numbers - the latter are moulded on the casing, the ID number could be moulded or it could be stamped on the chromed switch top; the parts book says 35710; however 31788 works exactly the same. (y)

If the switch and Brown/Green wire connection are correct, another common reason for the tail and/or brake lamps not 'working' is a similar (to the horn) piss-poor electrical return path from the lamp to battery +ve. :( The remedy is also similar - Red wire run beside the Brown/Green and plain Brown wires to the rear lamp, one end of the new Red wire connected into an existing Red wires' snap connector under the seat, the other end of the Red wire either threaded into the lamp and the bared end soldered to the outside of the bulb holder or terminated outside the lamp with a 3/16" ID ring terminal, that secured under one of the 2BA lamp assembly securing bolts.

red and blue wire I snipped
Note your image in your post #7 shows Blue/Red goes (from the dipswitch) to the the headlamp bulb dip filament.

You've butt-spliced (bad practice) the plain Blue wire to the Blue/White wire. As your image in your post #7 also shows, Blue/White goes (from the dipswitch) to the the headlamp bulb main filament and its warning lamp on the right of that image.

The plain Blue wire goes from terminal #8 of the 3-position Lighting lever switch to supply the dipswitch.

green idiot light.
red/orange warning light
Before Triumph and BSA fitted oil pressure switches to their bigger bikes from '69 and connected the switch to the red idiot lamp, Lucas had supplied all the makers of bigger Britbikes with headlamp shells that first included one and then two (red and green) idiot lamps. No o.p. switch, one was the headlamp main warning lamp, the other was a simple 'ignition on' warning lamp; as you can see, the bulb and holder pulls out of the coloured lens; depending which wiring diagram or owner's handbook you look at, either colour could be either warning. :rolleyes:

red/orange warning light doesn't have any internals, so I plan on hunting that down.
'69 250's weren't fitted originally with an oil pressure switch, and the parts book shows only the Red warning lamp, so that was intended as the main beam warning?

won't be making any real fixes, besides dropping in a horn button, until I have a workshop manual with reliable wiring diagrams.The The rest will likely be shrink tubed for now until I get a game plan
Mmmm ... if you post a link to the wiring diagram you found on Google, I can tell whether it's a good 'un. Otherwise, I've advised specific corrections above and can do for the wires you're thinking of "shrink tub[ing]" if you post the colours?

Gotta stop for work, I'll post more when that's done.

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hi Ryan,


As Don posted, absolutely; one of the primary reasons for this (and similar) internet forums is to share knowledge of these old heaps to get and keep 'em going. :)

Then, if you're going to work on the electrics:-

. First, if you don't have one already, buy a decent multi-meter - by "decent", I don't necessarily mean expensive but I particularly do mean one with electro-magnetic interference (emi) protection - e.g. aiui, in the US, "Harbor Fright" sell cheap ones that don't have such protection. :(

. Second, ascertain that your bike is still standard 'positive ground' - it isn't uncommon for DPO to convert to 'negative ground' but use the original wire colours ... ? Post if/when you have the meter and I or someone else'll post how to ascertain the 'ground'. (y)


Uh-uh.

If there's a plain Brown wire at the front of the bike, that - along with a White wire - is for the front brake switch. Unless your bike's rear lamp is a pattern replacement, the two wires into it are Brown/Green and plain Brown; note the bulb brake filament contact is on the end of the Brown wire? Also the two wires at the rear brake switch are plain White and plain Brown? The colours are a standard Lucas code. :)

On front drum brakes, the switch was a fat black cylinder in the cable with two 1/4"-wide male spade terminals (corresponding crimped female spade terminals and insulation on the White and Brown wires). Your bike might not have a front brake switch, either because BSA/Triumph was too cheap to fit 'em originally or there's a long- and widely-held belief that the switch causes 'sponginess' in the 'feel' when braking. Fwiw, my T150 (probably two or three times the weight of your 250) has the switch in the front brake cable and I've never noticed any such 'sponginess' ... :whistle:

Absent being able to check a wiring diagram, I believe the horn is wired on your bike the same way as bigger Triumphs:-

. The horn must be one fully-insulated from its mounting bracket (should be ascertained with your meter).

. One terminal has a Brown/Blue (insulation mainly Brown with one or two thin Blue tracer lines) wire connected to the Brown/Blue wire attached to battery -ve.

. The other horn terminal should have a Brown/Black wire, which is connected to the handlebar button.

Be aware this standard horn wiring is very cheap and mickey-mouse. The absolutely essential electrical 'return' from the handlebar button to battery +ve is some unknown path through sundry metal bits of bike. :cool: You can massively improve on this by attaching a new Red (standard insulation colour for wires connected unswitched to battery +ve) wire between a handlebar clamp bolt and an existing Red wires' bullet snap connector.


Uh-uh again. Tail lamp is (should be) connected to terminal #7 of the 3-position Lighting lever switch by a Brown/Green (similar to above, insulation mainly Brown with one or two thin Green tracer lines) wire.

You'd be wise to ascertain that you're working with the correct Lighting lever switch and it's connected correctly. To do this, you'll need to remove the switch from the headlamp shell (unscrew the nut around the switch lever) and find both the 5-figure switch ID number and the eight terminal numbers - the latter are moulded on the casing, the ID number could be moulded or it could be stamped on the chromed switch top; the parts book says "35710"; however 31788 works exactly the same. (y)

If the switch and Brown/Green wire connection are correct, another common reason for the tail and/or brake lamps not 'working' is a similar (to the horn) piss-poor electrical return path from the lamp to battery +ve. :( The remedy is also similar - Red wire run beside the Brown/Green and plain Brown wires to the rear lamp, one end of the new Red wire connected into an existing Red wires' snap connector under the seat, the other end of the Red wire either threaded into the lamp and the bared end soldered to the outside of the bulb holder or terminated outside the lamp with a 3/16" ID ring terminal, that secured under one of the 2BA lamp assembly securing bolts.


Note your image in your post #7 shows Blue/Red goes (from the dipswitch) to the the headlamp bulb dip filament.

You've butt-spliced (bad practice) the plain Blue wire to the Blue/White wire. As your image in your post #7 also shows, Blue/White goes (from the dipswitch) to the the headlamp bulb main filament and its warning lamp on the right of that image.

The plain Blue wire goes from terminal #8 of the 3-position Lighting lever switch to supply the dipswitch.


Before Triumph and BSA fitted oil pressure switches to their bigger bikes from '69 and connected the switch to the red idiot lamp, Lucas had supplied all the makers of bigger Britbikes with headlamp shells that first included one and then two (red and green) idiot lamps. No o.p. switch, one was the headlamp main warning lamp, the other was a simple 'ignition on' warning lamp; as you can see, the bulb and holder pulls out of the coloured lens; depending which wiring diagram or owner's handbook you look at, either colour could be either warning. :rolleyes:


'69 250's weren't fitted originally with an oil pressure switch, and the parts book shows only the Red warning lamp, so that was intended as the main beam warning?

Otoh, aiui not fitting the oil pressure switch to '69 250's was a late decision, and your bike has the (taper-threaded) hole in the crankcase plugged with a special plug? If so, fitting a switch - connected to the red warning lamp - might not be impossible, in which case the green idiot lamp would be main-beam warning?


Mmmm ... if you post a link to the wiring diagram you found on Google, I can tell whether it's a good 'un. Otherwise, I've advised specific corrections above and can do for the wires you're thinking of "shrink tub[ing]" if you post the colours?

Gotta stop for work, I'll post more when that's done.

Hth.

Regards,
Thanks a ton. Is great info. I can see the front brake cable appears to have been replaced, so if there was a switch there previously, it is no longer.

I was wrong about the tail light. After cracking open the headlight today with the bike on it came on, so I think cleaning the connectors up is my next step. The headlight and headlight indicator light are also flickering when I take it apart.

Would love info on how to check for a positive ground appropriately. Here is the multimeter I'm using. Apologies for asking for this, have worked on the electrical in more modern bikes but a positive ground system is new to me.
721243


I purchased a pdf of a workshop manual. This is the wiring diagram in it.
721244


I'm also curious about the loose spade connector dangling here. Might this be where the zener diode is supposed to be attached? Also, the three-position switch looks to be the proper one.


721245


Many thanks,

Ryan
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,896 Posts
Hi Ryan,

purchased a pdf of a workshop manual. This is the wiring diagram in it.
(y)

However, be aware the some of the wire labelling is a real 'Friday afternoon' job ... :rolleyes::-

. "BROWN/BLACK" between battery -ve and fuse and to the ignition switch is Brown/Blue in reality; as I posted before, Brown/Black is only correctly between the horn and the horn button.

. "WHITE/BROWN" from the ignition switch to the brake switches' and ignition coil's White wires and dipswitch to headlamp dip? (n) Again as I've posted already, dipswitch to headlamp dip was always Blue/Red. For the wire between the ignition switch and the brake switches' and ignition coil's White wires, look on the back of the ignition switch - I'd expect either plain White also or White/Blue (note the latter's different from "Blue/White" between the dipswitch and headlamp main ;)).

. Also on the back of the ignition switch, Brown/White (insulation mainly Brown but with thin White tracer(s)) between the ignition switch and Lighting switch terminal #4?

Note the horn connections are as I posted earlier. Do you need any help to check the horn is isolated from its mounting bracket?

check for a positive ground
I'm guessing the bike's wiring is connected to both battery terminals?

If the wiring's connected, as shown in your image, your meter leads are connected for the Ammeter function. As the rightmost socket is labelled respectively for Volts ("V"), Ohms (the Omega symbol), milliAmps ("mA"), the diode check (arrowhead point against the vertical line) and two other functions, and you'll want to test for Volts, move the Red lead to the rightmost socket; however, you'll need to read that meter's destructions to see whether to set it it to "DCV" to the right of "OFF" or "12V" to the left of "OFF".

Once the meter's set correctly, hold the other end of one meter lead on a bit of frame near the battery and touch the other end of the other meter lead to each battery terminal in turn - touching one battery terminal should cause the meter to display approximately 12V, touching the other battery terminal should cause the meter to display zero Volts; if so; whichever is zero Volts is "ground".

Otoh, if touching each terminal one after the other both cause the meter to display zero Volts or 12V, something isn't connected correctly - try a different bit of frame, check the fuse hasn't blown, etc.

have worked on the electrical in more modern bikes but a positive ground system is new to me.
:) No need for apologies. Don't get too hung-up on "ground". The word is an absolute pita because so many people 'understand' it differently :( and, in DC electrics, it doesn't actually exist - electrons flow in exactly the same direction, from battery -ve to battery +ve (counter-intuitive thought that might look?).

Because the g-word is such a pita because so many people understand it differently, I avoid using it as much as possible, using "supply" (from battery -ve to a component) and "return" (from a component to battery +ve).

curious about the loose spade connector dangling here. Might this be where the zener diode is supposed to be attached?
The Zener should be in the middle of the back of the finned casting in your image; if present, you'll see a large hex. and a 3/8"-wide male spade terminal.

Be careful reconnecting the female spade terminal with the Brown/Blue wires. Zeners often fail closed; if that one has and you reconnect the female spade terminal, the fuse'll blow instantly, because it's a short-circuit and there isn't any switch between battery and Zener. :(

Fuses
If your bike still has the original cylindrical fuse holder that takes a tubular glass fuse with metal end caps, do you have a few spare fuses on hand? If you're buying new ones, be aware you don't want the "35A" :eek: quoted in any manual ... this particular type of fuse was/is rated differently in GB and the US:-

. GB rates them by 'blow' Amps, which is the "35A";

. the US rates by 'continuous' Amps, which is half 'blow'; however, there isn't a US 17.5A version, nearest is either 15A or 20A; fwiw, I advise 15A.

Zener diode
The centre of the front of the finned casting is a push-in black plastic trim button, which can be levered out gently. Once it's out, you'll see a small nut on a thread, the thread is part of the Zener and brass so the nut is unlikely to be seized. The nut (and stud thread) is a British threadform known as 2BA, a 5/16"AF or 8 mm. socket might fit the nut but, certainly long-term, you'd be wise to buy the correct socket and maybe a 2BA combination wrench because 2BA fasteners are quite common on your bike.

Once the Zener's detached from the heatsink (finned casting), the image of your meter shows a diode test function. A Zener should test 'open' in both directions, it only starts to 'close'/conduct when the system Voltage rises above about 13V.

If the Zener tests good, clean off any corrosion on both Zener and heatsink and reassemble with electrical-conducting (i.e. not dielectric) grease between Zener and heatsink and between Zener threads and securing nut; fwiw, I use graphite grease.

Otoh, if the Zener is dud, generally-available replacements are poor quality. :( Usual replacement is a combined regulator/rectifier, that'll also replace the separate rectifier on your bike; post what testing shows and the Forum can advise reg./rec. if required?

tail light. After cracking open the headlight today with the bike on it came on,
headlight and headlight indicator light are also flickering when I take it apart
so I think cleaning the connectors up is my next step.
+1. Btw, the brushes you've ordered have brass wire bristles - not brass-coated steel wire bristles? Brass is softer than the terminals and won't damage them unless you apply a lot of pressure. Otoh, the brass bristles flatten quite quickly so you'll need more than one brush - I always have a small collection, in various knackered states. :)

Ime, snap connectors - the black-insulated tubular connectors between bullet terminals - are almost impossible to clean, and old steel connecting tubes inside split lengthways which can cause intermittent problems, and intermittent electrical problems are ? to trace ... As well as the terminal types I linked in my previous post, British Wiring sells snap connectors - consider ordering quantities of "Single" and "Double" as replacements? Btw, where I suggested in my previous post adding Red wires and connecting them to existing snap connectors, if that then needs a snap connector with more than two wires in each end (a "Double"), note BW sells a "Common Triple" (6 wires - 3 in each end) and a "4-way" (8 wires - 4 in each end).

@TR7RVMan Don's advice on removing bullet terminals from snap connectors is (y) However, regrettably the "special tool" he mentioned - Tool, Snap Connector Tool - won't pull bullets out of snap connectors, only push 'em in. But it's still a very handy tool to have.

If you have to replace bullet terminals on existing wires on the bike, that's a can of worms too:-

. If you look at British Wiring's bullet terminals page, you'll see he lists numbers of "Strand(s)" (you're interested in the ones for "PVC wire"). To save you baring a piece of your bike's wire, I'll tell you it has 14 strands. :) However, what BW doesn't mention is all those "Strand(s)" (and his PVC wire on another page) are metric (0.3 mm. OD) whereas the strands on your bike are Imperial - No.32 (British) Standard Wire Gauge - which are 0.274 mm. OD ... Doesn't look like much but, when the crimping tool only squashes a bullet a certain amount to make a good, tight interference fit on a number of metric strands overall, the smaller OD of Imperial strands can mess up the interference fit. :(

Fwiw:-

. I don't solder terminals because I'm crap at soldering and, if the solder runs between the strands under the insulation, it's stiff when it sets and can subsequently crack due to vibration, which becomes another difficult-to-find intermittent fault ...

. Ime, expensive bullet crimping tools like BW's can work successfully with some metric bullets on Imperial wire, but not always ... For 3/16" OD bullets on Imperial wire, I use ones that crimp like spade terminals, but I've only ever known one retailer - here in GB - selling 'em. :(

Talking of spade terminals, while BW sells the terminals, he doesn't sell any crimping tool. :( I suspect because they're easily available on eBay; nevertheless, if you're buying, be aware you need a tool with a cutaway shaped like a "M" in one jaw - as @Rusty1 Chris has posted - this shape curls over the 'tangs' on each terminal and pushes 'em into the insulation (long tangs) or conductor strands (short tangs).

front brake cable
Fwiw, I see the wiring diagram the parts book illustration and list on pages 48/49 all show a switch.

cheap aftermarket mutli-switch
Originally I gather that the only wire going to the handlebar was the horn- it looks like things have been reworked substantially in the headlight,
Mmmm ... at least whoever fitted that cheap switch took the time to use Lucas colour-codes for the wire (Blue for the dipswitch supply, Blue/Red to headlamp dip, Blue/White to headlamp main (y)).

Headlight is out as well.. but I haven't checked the bulb. It did work the other day
Possibly just the dip filament and, now you've disconnected the Blue/Red wire and connected Blue and Blue/White together, the headlamp main filament is the one not working?

red/orange warning light doesn't have any internals, so I plan on hunting that down.
If you do, be aware the bulb holder with wires - as in the other idiot lamp - aren't available separately. Now bulb holders come with two male spade terminals but, by the time you've attached wires even with female 'flag' spade terminals, you might find it protrudes too far into the shell and prevents the headlamp being reinstalled. ?

Pilot light bulb is also missing, but is connected inside of the headlight case.
Lighting
Rather than buying standard incandescent bulbs as listed in the parts book, you might want to consider modern upgrades:-

. Pilot bulb
The standard incandescent bulb was/is neither use nor ornament. However, the hole in the headlamp reflector (i.e. without the standard bulb holder) will take an "Eagle Eye" LED something like one of these. Measure the diameter of the hole in the reflector, Search eBay.com for "Eagle Eye", reorder the results with "Price + Shipping: lowest first", pick one of with a diameter that'll fit through the 'ole, secures with a locknut and has the two wires (and doesn't have a bonkers delivery time?) - electrical connection is LED Red wire to bike Red wires, LED Black wire to Lighting switch terminal #6. (y) If you want to see a picture of what the light output looks like, search previous posts by @rambo.

. Headlamp bulb
No idea what the "464" listed in the parts book is. (n) Bulb numbers aren't limited to Lucas and, while specs. have changed over the years, "464" doesn't even come up in Google as a headlamp bulb, nor is it - or any "40/27" (Watts main/dip) - listed in the (1983) Lucas catalogue I have ...

The parts book # might be a misprint of "446", which is the standard 50/40 headlamp bulb Lucas supplied '66-'70 for 12V electrics; certainly that's what BSA fitted to the contemporary B25, and your bike's alternator is (was originally) the same Lucas RM21 also fitted '69-'78 to pretty-much every other bike in the Triumph and BSA ranges.

The headlamp bulb cover and reflector indicate the bulb base is BPF - "British Pre Focus". As a lamp for seeing at night, the standard thing is junk; however, if you aren't planning much (any?) night riding but want/need lights-on when riding in daylight, CBS (and some others) sells a good LED replacement (beware the crap cheap BPF LED replacements on eBay and similar ...). Otoh, as @rambo's images show, the aforementioned Eagle Eye LED as the pilot bulb works well as a daytime riding lamp and is a fraction of the cost of the LED headlamp bulb ...

. Rear lamp
Biggest problem with this is if you ride lights-on-in-daylight, the tail bulb filament is on and, when you brake, the light output isn't much greater so might not catch the attention of a driver or rider behind. :( Here ime a simple LED replacement bulb doesn't make much difference, I prefer to replace the entire lamp innards with a LED 'board' - these use the same mounting as the lens and have a large number of individual red LED (some wired to be 'tail' and others wired to be 'brake') pointing backwards and a few white LED pointing downwards to illuminate the licence plate. (y)

The images in your posts #6 and #7 show some interesting things:-

. The clutch lever 'perch' is '70-on - pre-'70 didn't have the mirror mounting hole.

. The headlamp shell is buggered. (n) The 'gap' at the bottom of the shell should be slot that the 'tongue' on the bottom of the headlamp rim engages in; I suspect a DPO didn't know this, levered the rim off the shell, the rim 'tongue' then broke off the bridging piece on the lower edge of the shell. ?

. At some stage, I guess you'll wonder what the Green/Red wire is for, when it isn't shown on the wiring diagram ... I'm guessing there's also a Green/White wire somewhere? They were for turn signals - for some reason, Lucas included them in '69 and '70 harnesses, but not the signals themselves nor the obviously-necessary handlebar switch, relay and Light Green/Brown wire between the latter ...

Many thanks,
I'm pleased if it helps. :)

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Just in case anyone's interested in progress, I'll keep updating this thread
Absolutely! And please!

Looking at other bikes, and seeing how others tackle problems is highly informative and we all learn from it.

And, at the moment, here in the UK, there's not much else to do...... Particularly now that the winter re-build is done and that bike runs.

And I've just fixed the leaking valve in the toilet cistern. Could go around with the hoover (aka a vacuum cleaner) I suppose. Or have another coffee.......Or do my saxophone practice. No, later. I'll have another coffee.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
@TR7RVMan Don's advice on removing bullet terminals from snap connectors is (y) However, regrettably the "special tool" he mentioned - Tool, Snap Connector Tool - won't pull bullets out of snap connectors, only push 'em in. But it's still a very handy tool to have.
I second this, the tool allows you to make sure that the bullets are fully home in the sleeve connector allowing the rubber sleeve to do its job and insulate. I’ve seen a few videos where the sleeve connector isn’t trusted and people add heat shrink insulation to bullets on supply circuits but I don’t think it’s necessary if the bullets are properly pushed into the sleeve as in the picture.

For disconnecting freshly crimped bullets from the sleeve I just pull on the wire. Provided the correct crimper is used for the bullets and the two rearmost tabs (see pic) are crimped to the insulation it’s pretty much impossible to pull one off the wire, I tried with pliers and couldn’t do it.
721270
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
721457

Led pilot light is wired in. Have a replacement main headlight bulb coming. Really don’t plan on riding at night, but you never know.. Also, pilot was labelled "amber". I'm guessing amber compared to the 'daylight' bright white typical of led's as this looks more like the warmer white of a traditional bulb. Amazon.com: Cuque Eagle Eye Light, 9W 1 Pcs 23mm Amber LED Car Fog DRL Daytime Running Light Reverse Signal Tail Light Yellow 12V 9W: Automotive. Bulb on order is 1891654M1 12V Bulb for Massey Ferguson 135UK 148 165UK 168 175UK 178 185 188 | eBay. Appears identical as far as I can see, with the exception of the old one being labelled 'Japan' and this new one made in the UK. Foot peg rubbers went on today as well. The passenger ones are a real joy, even with a good heat gun handy. (Lubrication may help. I have a suspicion I broke a finger getting it done without.) I had already picked up a kick starter cover and the clutch rubber looks new, so I have spares of those now. TRIUMPH TR25 FOOT REST PEG KICK SHIFTER RUBBER SET 1968-72 SINGLE | eBay. Thanks @StuartMac for the wiring tips on the pilot. I was able to pull the press-in ground on the main headlight bulb's ring, put the tiny led red in between the connector and its sleeve and reinstall, which appears to work pretty well. I didn't have much room to work with on the reds in the headlight case. I spliced the existing wire for the pilot (connected to terminal 6) to the black led wire, soldered and heat shrunk a sleeve on. What is your go-to for connections of the sort, where you may have a much different gauge wire for something aftermarket like this? Once again, thank you- I haven't done any real tinkering with my bikes much since I was a teenager, and those things were mostly zip-tied and wire-nutted together..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hi Ryan,


(y)

However, be aware the some of the wire labelling is a real 'Friday afternoon' job ... :rolleyes::-

. "BROWN/BLACK" between battery -ve and fuse and to the ignition switch is Brown/Blue in reality; as I posted before, Brown/Black is only correctly between the horn and the horn button.

. "WHITE/BROWN" from the ignition switch to the brake switches' and ignition coil's White wires and dipswitch to headlamp dip? (n) Again as I've posted already, dipswitch to headlamp dip was always Blue/Red. For the wire between the ignition switch and the brake switches' and ignition coil's White wires, look on the back of the ignition switch - I'd expect either plain White also or White/Blue (note the latter's different from "Blue/White" between the dipswitch and headlamp main ;)).

. Also on the back of the ignition switch, Brown/White (insulation mainly Brown but with thin White tracer(s)) between the ignition switch and Lighting switch terminal #4?

Note the horn connections are as I posted earlier. Do you need any help to check the horn is isolated from its mounting bracket?


I'm guessing the bike's wiring is connected to both battery terminals?

If the wiring's connected, as shown in your image, your meter leads are connected for the Ammeter function. As the rightmost socket is labelled respectively for Volts ("V"), Ohms (the Omega symbol), milliAmps ("mA"), the diode check (arrowhead point against the vertical line) and two other functions, and you'll want to test for Volts, move the Red lead to the rightmost socket; however, you'll need to read that meter's destructions to see whether to set it it to "DCV" to the right of "OFF" or "12V" to the left of "OFF".

Once the meter's set correctly, hold the other end of one meter lead on a bit of frame near the battery and touch the other end of the other meter lead to each battery terminal in turn - touching one battery terminal should cause the meter to display approximately 12V, touching the other battery terminal should cause the meter to display zero Volts; if so; whichever is zero Volts is "ground".

Otoh, if touching each terminal one after the other both cause the meter to display zero Volts or 12V, something isn't connected correctly - try a different bit of frame, check the fuse hasn't blown, etc.


:) No need for apologies. Don't get too hung-up on "ground". The word is an absolute pita because so many people 'understand' it differently :( and, in DC electrics, it doesn't actually exist - electrons flow in exactly the same direction, from battery -ve to battery +ve (counter-intuitive thought that might look?).

Because the g-word is such a pita because so many people understand it differently, I avoid using it as much as possible, using "supply" (from battery -ve to a component) and "return" (from a component to battery +ve).


The Zener should be in the middle of the back of the finned casting in your image; if present, you'll see a large hex. and a 3/8"-wide male spade terminal.

Be careful reconnecting the female spade terminal with the Brown/Blue wires. Zeners often fail closed; if that one has and you reconnect the female spade terminal, the fuse'll blow instantly, because it's a short-circuit and there isn't any switch between battery and Zener. :(

Fuses
If your bike still has the original cylindrical fuse holder that takes a tubular glass fuse with metal end caps, do you have a few spare fuses on hand? If you're buying new ones, be aware you don't want the "35A" :eek: quoted in any manual ... this particular type of fuse was/is rated differently in GB and the US:-

. GB rates them by 'blow' Amps, which is the "35A";

. the US rates by 'continuous' Amps, which is half 'blow'; however, there isn't a US 17.5A version, nearest is either 15A or 20A; fwiw, I advise 15A.

Zener diode
The centre of the front of the finned casting is a push-in black plastic trim button, which can be levered out gently. Once it's out, you'll see a small nut on a thread, the thread is part of the Zener and brass so the nut is unlikely to be seized. The nut (and stud thread) is a British threadform known as 2BA, a 5/16"AF or 8 mm. socket might fit the nut but, certainly long-term, you'd be wise to buy the correct socket and maybe a 2BA combination wrench because 2BA fasteners are quite common on your bike.

Once the Zener's detached from the heatsink (finned casting), the image of your meter shows a diode test function. A Zener should test 'open' in both directions, it only starts to 'close'/conduct when the system Voltage rises above about 13V.

If the Zener tests good, clean off any corrosion on both Zener and heatsink and reassemble with electrical-conducting (i.e. not dielectric) grease between Zener and heatsink and between Zener threads and securing nut; fwiw, I use graphite grease.

Otoh, if the Zener is dud, generally-available replacements are poor quality. :( Usual replacement is a combined regulator/rectifier, that'll also replace the separate rectifier on your bike; post what testing shows and the Forum can advise reg./rec. if required?


+1. Btw, the brushes you've ordered have brass wire bristles - not brass-coated steel wire bristles? Brass is softer than the terminals and won't damage them unless you apply a lot of pressure. Otoh, the brass bristles flatten quite quickly so you'll need more than one brush - I always have a small collection, in various knackered states. :)

Ime, snap connectors - the black-insulated tubular connectors between bullet terminals - are almost impossible to clean, and old steel connecting tubes inside split lengthways which can cause intermittent problems, and intermittent electrical problems are ? to trace ... As well as the terminal types I linked in my previous post, British Wiring sells snap connectors - consider ordering quantities of "Single" and "Double" as replacements? Btw, where I suggested in my previous post adding Red wires and connecting them to existing snap connectors, if that then needs a snap connector with more than two wires in each end (a "Double"), note BW sells a "Common Triple" (6 wires - 3 in each end) and a "4-way" (8 wires - 4 in each end).

@TR7RVMan Don's advice on removing bullet terminals from snap connectors is (y) However, regrettably the "special tool" he mentioned - Tool, Snap Connector Tool - won't pull bullets out of snap connectors, only push 'em in. But it's still a very handy tool to have.

If you have to replace bullet terminals on existing wires on the bike, that's a can of worms too:-

. If you look at British Wiring's bullet terminals page, you'll see he lists numbers of "Strand(s)" (you're interested in the ones for "PVC wire"). To save you baring a piece of your bike's wire, I'll tell you it has 14 strands. :) However, what BW doesn't mention is all those "Strand(s)" (and his PVC wire on another page) are metric (0.3 mm. OD) whereas the strands on your bike are Imperial - No.32 (British) Standard Wire Gauge - which are 0.274 mm. OD ... Doesn't look like much but, when the crimping tool only squashes a bullet a certain amount to make a good, tight interference fit on a number of metric strands overall, the smaller OD of Imperial strands can mess up the interference fit. :(

Fwiw:-

. I don't solder terminals because I'm crap at soldering and, if the solder runs between the strands under the insulation, it's stiff when it sets and can subsequently crack due to vibration, which becomes another difficult-to-find intermittent fault ...

. Ime, expensive bullet crimping tools like BW's can work successfully with some metric bullets on Imperial wire, but not always ... For 3/16" OD bullets on Imperial wire, I use ones that crimp like spade terminals, but I've only ever known one retailer - here in GB - selling 'em. :(

Talking of spade terminals, while BW sells the terminals, he doesn't sell any crimping tool. :( I suspect because they're easily available on eBay; nevertheless, if you're buying, be aware you need a tool with a cutaway shaped like a "M" in one jaw - as @Rusty1 Chris has posted - this shape curls over the 'tangs' on each terminal and pushes 'em into the insulation (long tangs) or conductor strands (short tangs).


Fwiw, I see the wiring diagram the parts book illustration and list on pages 48/49 all show a switch.


Mmmm ... at least whoever fitted that cheap switch took the time to use Lucas colour-codes for the wire (Blue for the dipswitch supply, Blue/Red to headlamp dip, Blue/White to headlamp main (y)).


Possibly just the dip filament and, now you've disconnected the Blue/Red wire and connected Blue and Blue/White together, the headlamp main filament is the one not working?


If you do, be aware the bulb holder with wires - as in the other idiot lamp - aren't available separately. Now bulb holders come with two male spade terminals but, by the time you've attached wires even with female 'flag' spade terminals, you might find it protrudes too far into the shell and prevents the headlamp being reinstalled. ?


Lighting
Rather than buying standard incandescent bulbs as listed in the parts book, you might want to consider modern upgrades:-

. Pilot bulb
The standard incandescent bulb was/is neither use nor ornament. However, the hole in the headlamp reflector (i.e. without the standard bulb holder) will take an "Eagle Eye" LED something like one of these. Measure the diameter of the hole in the reflector, Search eBay.com for "Eagle Eye", reorder the results with "Price + Shipping: lowest first", pick one of with a diameter that'll fit through the 'ole, secures with a locknut and has the two wires (and doesn't have a bonkers delivery time?) - electrical connection is LED Red wire to bike Red wires, LED Black wire to Lighting switch terminal #6. (y) If you want to see a picture of what the light output looks like, search previous posts by @rambo.

. Headlamp bulb
No idea what the "464" listed in the parts book is. (n) Bulb numbers aren't limited to Lucas and, while specs. have changed over the years, "464" doesn't even come up in Google as a headlamp bulb, nor is it - or any "40/27" (Watts main/dip) - listed in the (1983) Lucas catalogue I have ...

The parts book # might be a misprint of "446", which is the standard 50/40 headlamp bulb Lucas supplied '66-'70 for 12V electrics; certainly that's what BSA fitted to the contemporary B25, and your bike's alternator is (was originally) the same Lucas RM21 also fitted '69-'78 to pretty-much every other bike in the Triumph and BSA ranges.

The headlamp bulb cover and reflector indicate the bulb base is BPF - "British Pre Focus". As a lamp for seeing at night, the standard thing is junk; however, if you aren't planning much (any?) night riding but want/need lights-on when riding in daylight, CBS (and some others) sells a good LED replacement (beware the crap cheap BPF LED replacements on eBay and similar ...). Otoh, as @rambo's images show, the aforementioned Eagle Eye LED as the pilot bulb works well as a daytime riding lamp and is a fraction of the cost of the LED headlamp bulb ...

. Rear lamp
Biggest problem with this is if you ride lights-on-in-daylight, the tail bulb filament is on and, when you brake, the light output isn't much greater so might not catch the attention of a driver or rider behind. :( Here ime a simple LED replacement bulb doesn't make much difference, I prefer to replace the entire lamp innards with a LED 'board' - these use the same mounting as the lens and have a large number of individual red LED (some wired to be 'tail' and others wired to be 'brake') pointing backwards and a few white LED pointing downwards to illuminate the licence plate. (y)

The images in your posts #6 and #7 show some interesting things:-

. The clutch lever 'perch' is '70-on - pre-'70 didn't have the mirror mounting hole.

. The headlamp shell is buggered. (n) The 'gap' at the bottom of the shell should be slot that the 'tongue' on the bottom of the headlamp rim engages in; I suspect a DPO didn't know this, levered the rim off the shell, the rim 'tongue' then broke off the bridging piece on the lower edge of the shell. ?

. At some stage, I guess you'll wonder what the Green/Red wire is for, when it isn't shown on the wiring diagram ... I'm guessing there's also a Green/White wire somewhere? They were for turn signals - for some reason, Lucas included them in '69 and '70 harnesses, but not the signals themselves nor the obviously-necessary handlebar switch, relay and Light Green/Brown wire between the latter ...


I'm pleased if it helps. :)

Hth.

Regards,
Have read, and will repeatedly read your responses and am finding new tidbits that become material as I work my way through. Am tempted to try and get some material between the intended slit on the headlight where there is currently a notch. Also, guessing my zener was a dud judging by one of these, hence my loose spade connector? Per your comment:

Otoh, if the Zener is dud, generally-available replacements are poor quality. :( Usual replacement is a combined regulator/rectifier, that'll also replace the separate rectifier on your bike; post what testing shows and the Forum can advise reg./rec. if required?

721463
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Bulb on order is 1891654M1 12V Bulb for Massey Ferguson 135UK 148 165UK 168 175UK 178 185 188 | eBay. Appears identical as far as I can see, with the exception of the old one being labelled 'Japan' and this new one made in the UK. Foot peg rubbers went on today as well. The passenger ones are a real joy, even with a good heat gun handy. (Lubrication may help. I have a suspicion I broke a finger getting it done without.)
C'mon Ryan, I know our old Britbikes are a bit agricultural (as you'll see if you open up the engine and gearbox!) but buying a tractor headlight bulb!! FWIW, that bulb looks like the usual BPF headlight bulb. ;)

Footpeg rubbers are easy to put on with a squirt of WD40 inside the rubber first. Don't need much and after a day or so it dries out.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,896 Posts
Hi Ryan,

Led pilot light is wired in.
(y)

Foot peg rubbers

easy to put on with a squirt of WD40 inside the rubber first.
Fwiw, I've long used cheap spray-on furniture polish as a rubber lubricant - those polishes all contain silicone, which any man-made rubber likes and it doesn't leave the sticky WD40 residue. Btw, if you have any old stiff rubber components that aren't perished, spraying on the cheap furniture polish and then kneading the component gently for a few minutes can often restore its flexibility. (y)

I really, really would be wary of buying new bits from eBay, especially when you have several good long-time bricks-'n'-mortar Triumph spares retailers and at least one good, long-time, high-profile spares wholesaler in the US. Trust me, the bollocks posted by eBay sellers about oil pressure switches is not confined to oil pressure switches ... ?

spliced the existing wire for the pilot (connected to terminal 6) to the black led wire, soldered and heat shrunk a sleeve on. What is your go-to for connections of the sort, where you may have a much different gauge wire for something aftermarket like this?
As I advised in the post you linked, "LED Black wire to Lighting switch terminal #6"; I'd never have two connections with only a short piece of wire in between if one connection'd do. In this case, I'd have crimped the LED Black wire into a new female spade (in either the original or a new insulation) and attached it directly to Lighting switch terminal #6.

British Wiring does a 1/4" Female Spades 'starter pack' (as well as something similar for crimp bullets 'n' snap connectors), he sells a decent bullet crimping tool (and the "closing tool"); call or email him for his spade crimping tool recommendation?

When crimping spade terminals (and ring terminals with a similar crimp) on to very thin conductor, I strip a little over double the length between the two pairs of crimp 'tangs' (which are usually ~1/4" apart), twist the stripped conductor strands together and then fold the twisted length in half; this now gives a 'fatter' conductor for the terminal and, when crimping, especially if I can persuade the tangs between the two halves of the fold, the crimp will never pull apart. (y) :)

guessing my zener was a dud judging by one of these, hence my loose spade connector?
It's possible the Pod was fitted because the Zener (or separate rectifier) is dud. Otoh, it's long been fashionable to denigrate those parts, and fitting a reg./rec. has long been fashionable even when Zener and rectifier are fine ... :rolleyes: Either way, the female spade terminal with the two Brown/Blue wires needs taping up securely ...

Btw, just as a matter of interest, is the original rectifier or common aftermarket replacement still on the bike? Original:-



... common aftermarket replacement:-



Btw2, the 'box' below the Pod here:-

... is a Boyer-Bransden electronic ignition, the silver label on it will advise whether it's a "MarkIII" or "MarkIV" (3 and 4 respectively if you aren't familiar with Roman numerals).

I'd strongly advise pulling the insulating tape off the e.i. Box wires connections and seeing what the fitter did:-

. The Box Red wire should be connected directly to the battery +ve terminal. From first-hand experience, I strongly advise against following the Bransden (the actual maker of "Boyer-Bransden" components) fitting instructions here, which show the Box Red wire and the coil "+" terminal connected to "POSITIVE FRAME EARTH".

. The coil "+" terminal can be connected either directly to the battery +ve terminal or into the existing harness Red wires at a snap connector. In either case, check for a Red wire connected from the harness specifically to an engine bolt or stud and use your meter to check for good continuity (<0.5 Ohm on a digital meter) between coil "+", battery +ve and engine.

. I'd also want to see what terminals the fitter used to connect the wires. Bransden supplies the red-insulated squash-on Bodger's Terminals I hate:-

.. The Box White wire should be connected to the White wire from the ignition switch that originally (wiring diagram) connected to the ignition coil "-" terminal. If the fitter didn't screw with this, you can connect the Box White wire with a standard 1/4" male spade terminal and "Cover". However, if I can make it easily accessible (say by just lifting the seat), I prefer to protect the e.i. with its own 7.5A blade fuse by fitting the holder between the original White wire and the Box White wire. In GB, I can buy single blade fuse holders that clip together (so I can clip on a second unconnected one to hold a spare fuse ...) similar to this but also with a clear cover; I searched eBay.com 'til I was starting to lose the will to live but couldn't see anything similar? :( Nevertheless, something useful might be available from a proper automotive electrical parts retailer?

.. The Box Black wire now connects to the coil "-" terminal, with a standard 1/4" female spade terminal and Cover.

.. The Box Black/White and Black/Yellow wires connect it to the trigger unit "Stator" (so not the alternator stator ;)) in the circular engine compartment that used to contain the points and mechanical auto-advance. Those wire colours were chosen because Lucas used 'em to connect coils and points on twins and triples, and B-B e.i. for Britbikes used the wires to connect Box and Stator.

.. However, as your bike's a single, it has only one coil and had only one set of points, so only the Black/White wire. Perfect connection between Box and Stator is essential for long-term reliable e.i. so I'd want to see what the fitter used to connect the Black/Yellow wire from the Box with the same wire on the Stator. If what the fitter used doesn't look perfect, consider replacing both with new 14-strand Black/White and Black/Yellow threaded through black Sleeving?

.. Between Box and Stator, I use what're often know as "Japanese bullets" (because Japanese vehicles use 'em ;)) - 4mm Male Bullet and Cover (C306) and 4mm Female Bullet and Cover (C307) - because: space is restricted inside the old points compartment, they're small enough to pass through the wiring holes in the engine and, between the male and female Covers, they're pretty-much waterproof and can be made so by filling the female Covers with petroleum jelly ("Vaseline" if the brand-name means anything in the US).

Hth.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
C'mon Ryan, I know our old Britbikes are a bit agricultural (as you'll see if you open up the engine and gearbox!) but buying a tractor headlight bulb!! FWIW, that bulb looks like the usual BPF headlight bulb. ;)

Footpeg rubbers are easy to put on with a squirt of WD40 inside the rubber first. Don't need much and after a day or so it dries out.
:) whelp, you live and you learn. Have wasted more money on worse uninformed purchases, and I've been moving fast with this project while at home. If that bulb works though it fits the recent history of this bike- had been in rural Texas on ranches with the previous two owners ;-p ???
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top