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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
my T120 was decatted by former owner as well as the sleepers, my 2012 had no cats from new + the stainless baffles in the beautiful polished preds did little IMO considering it was a smaller engine as well. i dont feel the sleepers are loud, JUST RIGHT IMO, + they only "talk" when on it + pleasant while just riding. i never heart a stock T120 so no comparo BUT my 2012 mag wheeler sounded like a "sewing machine" IMO
Makes sense, I had Sleepers on my 2013 T100 and agree with your description above. To me that's ideal - great tone & sound all around, but wakes up even more when you really get on the gas. Awesome. Predators - too loud for me. But that's really a subjective thing, and that's why we're lucky to have some great options out there. Well, unless you have a 2022 model (but just for now). :)
 

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I have my x-pipe on the way, and as far as a tune goes I'm considering a Booster Plug (some recommend this for de-cat'd bikes, but it's not crucial). As far as future regulations go, people will find a way around them. Yearly inspection inspection requirements might be the cinch point for many (or at least requiring part-swapping yearly...).

What about something like this product for your Goldwing? (I did a quick search out of curiosity, I'm guessing you've seen this as well)
I want to believe this but the technology already exists to clamp down hard on anything that violates EPA standards.

California is already creating lists of “approved” ECU settings/tunes that will pass inspection. I’m guessing they’ll use the same hash validation methods that are already in use to insure that people are installing a valid copy of the software that they download for their computers. We’re talking about verifying the actual code that makes up the ECU tune. In essence, your vehicle could fall within acceptable guidelines in all other areas but if the ECU tune can’t be verified by the database, it fails.

While companies might not be able to get around this, it will force them to innovate to find more power in ways that won’t violate EPA standards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I want to believe this but the technology already exists to clamp down hard on anything that violates EPA standards.

California is already creating lists of “approved” ECU settings/tunes that will pass inspection. I’m guessing they’ll use the same hash validation methods that are already in use to insure that people are installing a valid copy of the software that they download for their computers. We’re talking about verifying the actual code that makes up the ECU tune. In essence, your vehicle could fall within acceptable guidelines in all other areas but if the ECU tune can’t be verified by the database, it fails.

While companies might not be able to get around this, it will force them to innovate to find more power in ways that won’t violate EPA standards.
We're reaching a point where these strict guidelines are going to bring new bike sales to a grinding halt. If I had any idea / reason to think the CAT on my 2022 T120 was half-welded, I absolutely would have gone for a 2019 or earlier leftover (there are plenty). I didn't even think to dig around for this info (ya, my mistake I suppose but plenty of Triumph folks are still surprised by this new hurdle).

I'll add a quick aside - California has always been the pinnacle of emission restrictions. Many states don't even require yearly motorcycle inspections. My state (PA) does, but they don't emission test. From here forward, I might get an inspection every 2-3 years. "Oh my sticker fell off, sorry I'll get it replaced right away sir." works just fine (never been called out on it yet).

My theory as to why Triumph started liquid-cooling these engines is because they were forced to add CATs, which in turn made the engines run unnecessarily hot, AND significantly reduced fuel economy (how's that for hypocrisy?).

Anyways - none of this horse sh*t should be applied to motorcycles - they are teeny tiny drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of vehicle emissions.
 

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I'll add a quick aside - California has always been the pinnacle of emission restrictions. Many states don't even require yearly motorcycle inspections.
FWIW, California has no emissions testing for motorcycles.

You can be cited for having a "non-EPA approved" exhaust, but that's it as far as I know:

from here: "In September of 2010, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed SB 435, also known as the Motorcycle Anti-Tampering Act, into law. The new law will give LEO’s (Law Enforcement Officers) the ability to cite motorcyclists riding model years 2013 and newer, for having after-market pipes that do not carry an “EPA Approved” label.
The Bad News: The law will require motorcycles to maintain their original federally-required emissions exhaust systems, or purchase and use only aftermarket equipment that includes a readily-visible EPA stamp that certifies federal emissions compliance. A first violation will be a fix-it ticket and a small fine. Subsequent offenses will result in fines of $100 to $250."
 

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Looks to me like the cat inlet and outlet pipes run above the left and right frame rails. Both rails would have to be dropped or removed completely, or the cat would have to be cut out, as others have suggested.

If I consider a late model T120, I'll be spending some time under one with a flashlight on the dealers floor since leaving the cat in place isn't an option for me. The reason is the great amount of heat that the cat gives off. It's hot enough where I ride already!

I hope Peter of Meerkat fame looks at this situation and offers his expert opinion.

Do the later T120s still have slip on factory mufflers, or is the entire exhaust system unitized now?
 

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even in Pa Hardly got their hands slapped for some tunes + my savy former ducati dealer that rides hardlys for comfort in his later years noted some of his tunes from the internet just "went away" !! i ride classic Triumphs for fun + find them comfortable + fun + enjoy their lighter weight + good handling!!
 

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Hi friends,

So I've discovered that my 2022 T120 Black has a different setup for the catalytic converter. For this latest model year, Triumph removed the 2 rear clamps that attach the link pipes to the cat... and replaced them with WELDS.

That's right - the cat is now welded directly to the link pipes, and doing the cat delete is now even more difficult. I have a TEC x-pipe on the way, and it appears I have two options to make this work:

1. order left & right link pipes (for 2016-2019 T120 model years) and two clamps from the dealer $360
2. find the above parts on eBay or similar (already looked, nothing on eBay in the US... plenty in the UK...)

My main question: Does anyone know if it's possible to cut the 2022 link pipe right at the weld to the cat, and somehow make this work with the x-pipe?

Probably easy enough to answer once my x-pipe arrives, just looking for anyone else that's run into this issue (found one guy on Facebook, looking here for more details).

Thanks all!
$360 for two small pipes is hard to swallow. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just get an entire exhaust system than an X pipe and links pipes? you would save weight and get better performance.
 

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Hi friends,

So I've discovered that my 2022 T120 Black has a different setup for the catalytic converter. For this latest model year, Triumph removed the 2 rear clamps that attach the link pipes to the cat... and replaced them with WELDS.

That's right - the cat is now welded directly to the link pipes, and doing the cat delete is now even more difficult. I have a TEC x-pipe on the way, and it appears I have two options to make this work:

1. order left & right link pipes (for 2016-2019 T120 model years) and two clamps from the dealer $360
2. find the above parts on eBay or similar (already looked, nothing on eBay in the US... plenty in the UK...)

My main question: Does anyone know if it's possible to cut the 2022 link pipe right at the weld to the cat, and somehow make this work with the x-pipe?

Probably easy enough to answer once my x-pipe arrives, just looking for anyone else that's run into this issue (found one guy on Facebook, looking here for more details).

Thanks all!
How did Triumph get the exhaust on if the CAT is welded let alone get the exhaust off if a pipe needs to be replaced?
 

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2022 Triumph T120
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How did Triumph get the exhaust on if the CAT is welded let alone get the exhaust off if a pipe needs to be replaced?
From what I can see on mine, the header is still the same. The cat has pipes welded to them instead of clamped. The pipes/extensions are still clamped to the mufflers. To me it looks more like Triumph unitized the assembly to make it cheaper to produce than harder to tamper with.
 

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$360 for two small pipes is hard to swallow. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just get an entire exhaust system than an X pipe and links pipes? you would save weight and get better performance.
British Customs‘ headers will cost about twice that, but have O2 sensor mounts and a balance pipe. Pretty sure it will be appreciably lighter and offer more zing. Just wish they’d hurry it up a bit!
 

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Hey folks! Tease Time. ;)

Just ordered an X-Pipe/De-Cat for my 2022 T120 I found online. I should get it in about a week, and will probably install immediately. If I remember, will take a video of the installation, make some sound bites, and post info and review. Was waiting for Motone, but no firm commitment, and British Customs seems intent on a full header system sometime early next year. The header will certainly be a performance item, but will probably need other enhancements and a lot more moola. Even stock, the T120 performs "adequately," so this Distinguished Old Gentleman only requires a few more decibels to be satisfied, lol.

I chose polished, but satin also available. Both are 304 Stainless Steel.

Cheers!

Wood Religious item Artifact Tool Metal
 

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This looks like a Meerkat cross flow with the older mid pipes.
The builder is in Southeast Asia, but should be pleased to hear such praise! These link pipes will only work with this X-Pipe, but if he sees a market, might make pipes that will fit existing de-cats? I'm the guinea pig, but that's just because I'm impatient. I've been pestering several companies to hurry things along, but those companies have many irons in the fire. Perhaps this fellow just built one for his own bike and posted to see if there was an interest?

cj
 

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It's interesting that given the option of placing the cats in the mufflers, which would have been more cost effective and easier AND reduced the heat generated, Triumph chose to put the cat upstream under the engine which is more complicated and more costly, but made it difficult and costly for owners to eliminate. Now Triumph has made it even more difficult to eliminate the cat.

Seems we can look forward to this kind of moves in the future of most motorcycles.
I'm not an expert by any means, but i believe they are placed closer to the engine now because they only function properly when the media is hot🤷‍♂️ so if it's closer it heats faster and does its intended purpose sooner and better. But yeah it's terrible for performance
 

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I'm wondering if somehow Triumph was pressured to make this a more difficult job from the powers that be. There's no way it costs less to pre-weld this part. I mean, what happens if someone needs the cat repaired / replaced down the line? It's not an uncommon job. Just scratching my head on this one a little.
You can bank of this. EPA and Euro regulators are coming for us. Motorcycle inspections probably aren't far off either. Just my 2 cents.
 

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You can best believe that Government has a role in this new welded Cat. There is a MAJOR company that does tuning on the Goldwing that has decided to cease the operation, Guhl. The EPA has these aftermarket companies running scared, no doubt from a certain political parties strong arm. I recommend buying a tune sooner than later before its too late if you are on the fence. I wish I would have for my Wing, too late now.
Couldn't agree more. Just checked DNK and they're still offering tunes up through 2022. Only issue is if you buy know that you'll need another tune if you change anything later. That includes things like cruise control, air filters, pipes etc..
 
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