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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hiya all,

let me start by thanking all of you for giving your time to this excellent forum - I have done a lot of troubleshooting based off of ideas from other posts in here before posting this myself. Now, to my issue...

Previous mods of mechanical note: Aftermaket exhaust - EXAN X-Black Evo Exhaust Silencer. Street legal. Mounted about 4 months prior to issue. ECU re-flashed with map for 3-to-1 Arrow can for my VIN, closest I could find to the 3-to-1 EXAN with regards to maps. It seems to have worked fine, albeit with the occasional afterburn pop. Nothing major.

My troubles started a couple of months ago when the engine conked out at a set of lights. A quick once-over determined that the issue was a bad stator, it was short on all three coils. I ordered a new one, and since the measurements of the rectifier were slightly off as well I opted to change it for a new one at the same time. After replacing the stator and rectifier, the bike is misbehaving badly. The charging circuit works perfect, voltages are exactly where they are supposed to be all through the rev range. However, the bike emits more smoke than I remember the first minute or so when started cold, and the idle is rough as hell. It is hunting badly, to the extent that it occasionally stalls just while idling. When idling, revving slightly will give you the expected nice purr of the triple, but as the RPM's lower again it almost invariably ends up stalling when bottoming out the rev curve. Mind you, this is while in neutral and stationary. I should add that now and then the bike is idling (barely) and then stalls as soon as a little throttle is applied. Anything above roughly 5% throttle behaves as I remember from the bike when she was good, with power on tap. Below the bike is more annoying than a root canal. When riding, decelerating towards a set of lights will cause the engine to stall unless I keep a reasonable throttle input, which in turn means I end up "idling" at around 2500-3000 rpm, holding as little throttle as I can keep stable. the issue becomes slightly less intrusive as the bike heats up, and even from cold it is not noticeable at speed. While at speed I have power on tap.

I should mentioned that I had the valve clearances adjusted about 4000km ago, two valves were marginally outside spec and thus rectified.
Also, fresh Castrol Racing 10w40 and HiFlo filter every 5000km, and new spark plugs about 1000km ago.

Troubleshooting steps:
* double-checked all electrical connectors
* visually inspected all hoses for signs of damage/wear/aging, as well as verifying connections
* Inspected airbox and filter (Filter is K&N, about 1000km on it since I fitted it)
* Verified stepper motor actually actuates the ISC
* Adjusted stepper gap to 0.5mm (only marginally off, spot on now)
* Monitored with TuneECU, found TPS to be 0.04v off (0.64v in idle, 0.60v is spec) - I have not rectified this yet as I had to order a T20H safety torx driver
* Throttle bodies seemed fine, but cleaned them anyway since I was already in there
* Noticed unlikely readings form the O2 sensor in TuneECU. With my limited understanding of an ICE that seemed like it could provide a plausible explanation of the behavior.

I have ordered an O2 sensor eliminator for testing purposes, in the interim I unchecked the O2 sensor in TuneECU and re-flashed. I then reset the adaptations and did a 12-minute tune. Still same behavior.

I am at my wits end, and I sorely miss my Street Triple... Any ideas are most welcome.


Cheers,

//L
 

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Sounds like you've done quite a bit, but the one thing you didn't mention was the battery. Did you ensure the one you have is still good, or replace with a new one along with the stator and R/R. I know you said you checked the charging circuit, but not sure if that included the battery's ability to retain a charge.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your input! Funny you should mention it, that precise thought has been festering throughout the day. While I have little indication to say the battery cannot hold a charge, realistically speaking I have no good reason to claim that it can either. It is all but certain that the battery took one on the nose when the stator jumped ship, so chances are it isn't 100% whatever state it is in. I'll go get a new one this weekend and see what the story is. I appreciate the input, thanks a bunch!!! :)
 

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I hope it helps, because that's all I have. ;) Good luck.

BTW, Congrats to your national team for crushing the Springboks last month. I really wish I could have watched it, but that was one of the few matches not shown here.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So, it seems I've got most of the issue licked. Got a new battery, that wasn't the cause. In my case it was, by the looks of it, a combo of two main issues: Out-of-spec TPS alignment, and dirt in the ISC stepper pivot hinge that made its range of motion limited. Ended up throwing a coupe of hundred at an issue that ended up being fixed by a torx driver, some WD40, and a toothbrush. Ah well.

Tomorrow morning will be the pudding within which the proof resides as it will be my first completely cold start since rectifying the above issues, but I am cautiously optimistic. It kind of feels like it is missing a little torque just exiting idle still, as I managed to stall her a couple of times this PM, but this may well be because I've grown accustomed to the cruiser that is very differently geared.

Just figured I'd update the thread as far too many threads are abandoned without the solution being posted. If anyone faces similar issues feel free to reach out. I have learned a helluva lot about what's under the bonnet on the Striple during these struggles...
 

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Let us know how tomorrow goes.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Soooo....

The good news is that I am most definitely moving in the right direction. The bad news is that the issue isn't fully resolved yet. The bike is certainly behaving a lot better, but it still isn't fully back to health. The original symptoms persist; but certainly to a lesser degree than before. Armed with substantially more of an understanding of how the individual parts interact I have developed a couple of possibly sound theories about what needs to be done to fully rectify the issue, so I have a couple of good garage sessions to do over Christmas. I am feeling a lot more optimistic with regards to my ability to find the solution though, as up until yesterday I had little to no understanding of how the electronics interact with the ICE. If I feel particularly adventurous I'll open her up proper as I have intended to change the cam chain guides - they have developed the typical Triumph Triple Ticking(tm) that subtracts from the sonata that is the audio signature of the phenomenal engine on this thing. If I go to that length I'll obviously check the valve clearances too, albeit this was done less than 5000km ago by someone that wields a spanner for a living. Might as well, if I'm already in there. It would feel a bit annoying to waste a full sump of fresh Castrol Racing oil, but so be it...

I'll keep you guys posted, in case there is interest.
 

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Hey there,
Basic questions for you... don't take on the wrong way....
have you done a TPS reset?
what kind of (octane), fuel are you using in your bike? 87, 89, 91?
does the engine knocks or pings, when opening the throttle, from low rpms? (say from 2,000 to 4,500 rpms?
did you remove the CAt converter? headers?...

I installed a racing exhaust pipe, with K&N air filter, while using 87 gas, on a 2012 engine. bike started to act funny. rough idle, engine was noisy, and knocking... tryed a few maps and even started to change it my self, did the TPS reset few times and it seemed better for about 5 miles.
I changed the TPS sensor, and the bike was running a little better, but not really.... Arrow map would not work at all!!

finally, I took it to get it Mapped on a Dyno. The Dyno expert explained to me. if you put 10 bikes next to each other, the 1 bike, which the tune was done with, would run great. 2 bikes would run good, 3 bikes would run ok... 2 bikes would run bad and 2 bikes would not run at all. He also mention that I should change fuel.

So, the witch crafted started... in the first day, he (the Dyno expert), found out, my bike had the wrong fueling and timing at certain rpms and load.
He rectified the map and made it smooth and responsive from idle to open throttle, and back to closed throttle.
I paid further attention to what the dyno tech had mentioned about the fuel.. So, I switched gas. went from 87 to 89 then to 91. Knocking is gone and no more strange idle when crossing the throttle to get to a stop light. bike has a huge kick and very responsive throttle. (I have to mention that I'm very picky at throttle control and performance of the bike).

so what I'm getting at is, once you have exhausted all your resources, as of what to do to fix your bike, you may want to ask about getting it tuned...

good luck!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hiya!

Not to worry, I find that there is nothing like a too basic question when it comes to these things. Thanks for taking an interest! Now, some answers;

I did a TPS reset. The gap was slightly large, rectified to 0.5mm. Low voltage was a hair high at 0.64v, rectified to 0.6v. High voltage was subsequently tuned to the specified 0.72v. The pivot joint was quite heavily dirty, so much so that it didn't seem to move freely towards the high voltage area. WD40 and a toothbrush remedied that.

With regards to fuel, it is hard to find anything but 95 octane in Ireland, so that's what she drinks. The idle is much closer to stable after the above changes, but it still has some stalling issues. If I open the throttle only a hair while she is cold (issue is almost nonexistent after 30-ish minutes) the RPM starts fluctuating between an estimated 7-800RPM to 2000RPM, bordering on stalling at the lower range. It will indeed stall, unless I give it a more abrupt throttle input. Rolling off the throttle to 0% while in motion is also likely to stall the engine in the first half hour unless I am employing engine braking. I hasten to add that even when the issue is occurring the bike behaves like a rocket when in higher RPM ranges.

The only "unwanted" sound the engine is emitting is the staple of Triumph Triples, the cam chain rattle. I have new chain, guides and tensioner sitting on the shelf, ready for me to perform a rectal cerebrumoscopy and get the job done. This I am certain has little bearing on the current behavior though.

The only alterations made of mechanical or electrical impact is LED conversion on headlights and indicators, an Innovv K1 camera kit, and conversion from OEM 3-1-2 exhaust to an Exan 3-1-1 low slung pipe. The headers are stock, the Exan kit (street legal) takes over from the joint between the rider foot pegs. The ECU was flashed with the Arrow single can map at that time, which has worked fine for about 6 months. The occasional pop in the pipe when rolling off the throttle, but nothing alarming. OEM Air Filter was replaced with K&N a few months ago as well. As of today I snapped in an O2 sensor eliminator for testing purposes, but that had about zero effect.

I don't find the notion of getting the bike tuned alien, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the map being the culprit here. Sure, it would probably be possible to re-map in a fashion that would successfully camouflage the issue, but the root cause would remain methinks.

My planned course of action at this stage is to take the throttle bodies out to give them a proper clean, inside and out, as well as a proper clean of the ISM and associated joints. At the same time I intend to check the fuel pump operating pressure, as issues from 0% to 5% throttle input often indicates a clogged filter or some other fuel supply related issue. Heck, I might just rebuild the fuel pump with new parts for the hell of it.


It's been a long road so far, I just hope I get this sorted shortly. In three days we start moving towards summer again... ;)


Cheers,

//L
 

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Hey there, again...

When I asked about the TPS reset, I was thinking of TuneECU reset, and letting the bike run for 12+/- minutes until the TPS reset light comes on, on TuneECU. (or about when the FAN comes on.)

I was going to ask about the O2 sensor and, the ASI (secondary air injection system). (removing theO2 is a good idea to let the bike idle per tune instead of per O2 readings). although at higher elevation it's going to be a little unstable.
if you took the ASI system off, and removed the O2 sensor, the units must be unchecked (disable) in TuneECU.
after all the changes, the TPS reset should be done and let the bike run without touching the throttle to "learn" the changes.

good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just an update...

...in an attempt to not be one of those that abandon threads without a resolution being documented. Alas, I have not found the solution, but I have identified the symptom.

After performing all the usual suspects (TPS adjustment, ISC adjustment, Reset Adaptations, 12 minute tune, O2 bypass) the issue persists. Hooking it up to TuneECU and monitoring while idling identifies the symptom though. The bike will idle rock solid for 10-15 seconds, during which time the hPa readings for all three cylinders are +-10 of eachother - presumably good. Then, all of a sudden, the hPa readings for all three cylinders drop to 0, and the idle is super erratic for 10-20 seconds. Then the hPa readings goes back to normal, and idle is stable again - and this loop continues. There is a fair amount of white smoke upon startup, and while that could be normal I don't remember it being that pronounced last winter - but I may be wrong. The smoke subsides within a minute or so though. I should also note that fuel consumption is a faaaaaair bit above normal as well, but some of this can surely be attributed to idling at 4K through throttle input whenever stationary to avoid stalling, as well as all trips being of nominal length due to the issues with the bike.

It seems clear that the hPa readings is what is causing the ECU to idle all over the place, so now I have to hunt a solution for that.


Cheers,

//L
 
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