[DaveM]

Hi folkels,
I just noticed on the Triumph Australia website

http://www.triumph.co.uk/australia/2009 Triumph Sprint ST_5334.aspx

That Mr Bloor has sneaked in a couple of more ponies into the 1050, to my knowledge it has been rated at 125hp since it was released in 2005.

Any one know more about this and what the techies tweaked to get it?

No doubt it is to do with an ECU mapping change.

cheers,
DaveM

 

[caddydaddy]

I've noticed that before as well, and I think I posted about it. If you go to the specifications page, under performance, it lists 127PS, and right next to that it lists it as 125 BHP.
So I'm guessing it's just a typo on the main page where they list it as 127BHP.

 

[3banger]

From the Wiki

PS
This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America and Japan, especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English "horsepower", but mathematically different from the British unit. It is defined by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB)[5] in Braunschweig as exactly:

1 PS = 75 kilopond·metre/second ~= 735.5 newton·m/s ~= 735.5 W ~= 0.7355 kW ~= 0.98632 hp (SAE)
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit. It is still in use for commercial and advertising purposes, as many customers are not familiar with the use of kilowatts for engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_power#PS

 

[DaveM]

I've noticed that before as well, and I think I posted about it. If you go to the specifications page, under performance, it lists 127PS, and right next to that it lists it as 125 BHP.
So I'm guessing it's just a typo on the main page where they list it as 127BHP.

Yep that makes sense, I think I do remember your post now too.

A typo; 127ps not bhp.

cheers,
DaveM

 

[Lazarus Long]

I have the 2009 and the manual says 126.5 hp at 9.250 rpm and 104 Nm at 5.000 rpm.

Have seen reviews saying 123, 125, 127 though so still have no idea what's right.

 

[frider]

I was reading an interesting article in one of the UK Bike mags ( could of been Superbike, Bike, Performance Berks, not sure) where a well respected engine tuner/ dyno operator said even changing oil specs with the SAME motah, gave equivalent HP readings of IE 120, 122, 127 just with the lighter, less friction oil in it!!!!!

So a true 7HP measured gain, just by using 0W ( think it was a fully synthetic, real synthetic, not a dino base) 0W 15 was the classification, I believe.......

I also believe they got a few interesting variables using just different tyres, IE Street/Track etc.........

 

[DaveM]

It grows more interesting then

DaveM

 

[caddydaddy]

It grows more interesting then

DaveM

Maybe someone should put an email into Triumph HQ and see what the deal is? Maybe it's just listed wrong on the websites, or they really have tweaked it?

 

[frider]

Does it matter that much......

what I mean to say, is for all those waiting for a "new 'Tona", it is still pretty poor for a 1050cc engine........comparitively speaking, seeing as how Triumph managed to sneak 148 ponies into the old 955i version.........what gives????..................

surely something can be done to the bigger engine to produce at least 158... which would put it pretty close to any of the (earlier) jap 4 cyl, 1 litre motahs.....

 

[dolson]

1 or 2 HP is like nothing, remember it is a fictitious figure anyway. Something about how fast the King's horse can lift 660 lbs. IIRC.
But add 1 or 2 lbsft. of torque, you could feel that.

There is a very simple way to make a dyno that is virtually foolproof for those interested.

All one needs is a timer, a recording device, the total weight of the bike including you and a hill.
Start in a higher gear where you won't have to shift like 4th.
Rolling start at 3,000rpm and whack the throttle open and hold it at WOT. Count into the recording device at each cardinal rpm tick. 4k, 5k, 6k, etc. until you top out. 9K should be good enough.
Do that a few times and record the seconds between your rpm marks and you can plot a graph.

I don't have the sheet handy but plugging in the numbers you will have plotted your torque and then can get the HP curve too.

I'll rummage around and see if I can come up with the chart.

I used to do this all the time making changes on a racer and could see for certain which direction I was going. This is one heck of a lot more accurate than going by book figures and is right there on a dyno that has been calibrated.

 

[Calliway]

+1 Mr Dolson. Horsepower is a mathematical equation of Torque and whether its 125 or 127 in the end my 05 made 111hp at the rear tire with 1300kms on then 113hp at the rear with 7000kms and the TOR( i think... going of memory) and 118rwhp with 28,000kms and the IXILs.

I dont have the dyno charts anymore so I cant remember the torque values exactly but I remember it was about 72ftpds then 77 or so with the TOR and the IXILs.

 

[dolson]

+1 Mr Dolson. Horsepower is a mathematical equation of Torque and whether its 125 or 127 in the end my 05 made 111hp at the rear tire with 1300kms on then 113hp at the rear with 7000kms and the TOR( i think... going of memory) and 118rwhp with 28,000kms and the IXILs.

I dont have the dyno charts anymore so I cant remember the torque values exactly but I remember it was about 72ftpds then 77 or so with the TOR and the IXILs.

Another thing, HP and torque figures are typically taken off the crank in a lab. If you get it dyno'd the figures will be lower and vary. Dyno operator, gross, uncorrected, corrected, etc., etc., etc.

 

[DaveM]

Horse Power

Does it matter that much......

what I mean to say, is for all those waiting for a "new 'Tona", it is still pretty poor for a 1050cc engine........comparitively speaking, seeing as how Triumph managed to sneak 148 ponies into the old 955i version.........what gives????..................

surely something can be done to the bigger engine to produce at least 158... which would put it pretty close to any of the (earlier) jap 4 cyl, 1 litre motahs.....

Seeing this was a thread I started with an innocent question.

I would like to make a comment about horse power.

With a side note the Daytona 955 engine produced it's hp higher in the rev range than the Sprint.
The 955 and 1050 Sprints have a pretty much perfect power delivery and torque curve, pretty much a straight 45 degree line.
It doesn't get a lot better than that for fast cornering.

Anyway back to my first sentence HP.

The guys I regularly ride with ride the following machines;

Kawasaki ZX10 2005
Suzuki GSX R750 2005 (a near perfect sports bike IMHO)
Yamaha YZF 1000 modified by an expert tech.
Yamaha R1 2008

2 of these riders are racers, all these bikes make far more HP than my much heavier and older 955i 2004 Sprint ST.........................and yet I can hold my own with them all on the road in the corners a lot of the time, I am by no means the best or fastest rider of the bunch and I have no racing experience.

How and why?

Because exiting a corner, any corner you can only use so much horse power, I have an advantage on certain bumpy roads because the more powerful sports bikes get the front wheel in the air so easily (especially on bumps) and this limits how much throttle they can use, where I can use ALL of my power and torque in these same corners.

It's pretty hard to steer at 45 degree angle when the front wheel lifts!

So when you complain about lack of hp it is all relative to what you want your bike for.

If you want to drag race other bikes well then hp will make a lot of difference, if you want to have a ball in the corners, then useable power and buckets of torque make the job so much easier.

If you are on a track, then naturally on straights more hp is going to win over a lesser powered machine on the straights.

But most of us ride on the road and frankly all that hp makes bugger all difference if you ride your bike to enjoy corners.

125hp sounds like plenty to me.

my 2 cents worth.

DaveM

 

[Ratboy1050]

Good 2c worth DaveM!

 

[frider]

I couldn't agree more mate.......

Thats why I have an RS......perfect combination of power with a torque curve to die for........

Believe me, I have ALWAYS observed in real world road riding, you are spot on with your observation that light, powerful bikes can be.......well TOO light, and too powerful......especially on less than perfect roads/less than perfect conditions......

I could tell you about the time I kept up and eventually PASSED two jockeys on GSXR 750's ( the early one) on a road known as the 'Snake Pass' in England on my courier XJ750......yes, a shaft drive tourer, 'cos conditions were far from perfect......but you probably wpuldn't believe me!!!

I was simply trying to do two things, one being ask the question that has been asked many times before, by Daytona owners, and some new Sprint ST owners, as to why it seems to be that difficult for Triumph to improve on the 955i motah, with a bigger capacity, newer design 1050, in respect of peak power output???

 

[ricster]

Hi DaveM

I would say that was 3 cents worth usd. But I agree

 

[dolson]

IF Triumph made a 750 instead of a 675 I'd have one in a heart beat.
I agree that the GSXR750 is probably the finest combination for a pure sports bike out there.

On the HP thing, Torque is work, HP is how fast an engine can do the work basically. Torque is purely a function of engine capacity. (How much air a particular engine can pump in and out.) If one looks at the torque figures of all the liter bikes they all are pretty close. The higher figures are the bikes where the builders have optimized the breathing enabling the air pump to move more air than the others.

Take a look at our engines an how the torque has risen over the generations listed in another thread. 2nd. Gen. a goodly little amount of torque increase over Gen. 1. This was do to a larger air box a bit of a cam change and that's about it.
Going to the 1050 another torque lift done by increasing the stroke. Which IMO is one of the best ways to increase torque. This ended up with a larger capacity and more air in and out.

What's this got to do with anything? HP and torque are one of those yen and yang things. It takes torque to blast out of the hole or corner and HP to get to the end of the straight first.
Torque is really important in a road race situation as one is spending more time going into, in and coming out of corners than on a straight. HP comes into play at the big end where the speed and time to the braking point is important.

Like in DaveM's land we here have very technical roads where torque is used to come out of a corner and using it wisely can stay with most others out there. Then riders takes a play in things tires not withstanding.
Where we have an advantage is that our bikes are like tractor motors and make torque from the bottom of the well and hold it to the top. Where a pure sports bike only starts making torque way up the rev range compared to us as they are built to rev higher for the higher HP and quite frankly, most street riders unless they have racing experience don't have the balls to rev them that high so they are not in the more useful part of the rev range.

That's our big advantage. Having the torque available down lower.

 

[iceman]

.........That's our big advantage. Having the torque available down lower.

... you're on to it there Don

My last bike was a 1200 4 cylinder that had more HP but the Sprint is a much more relaxing ride as it has the boogey available just about all the time without having to cane it.

And it sounds awesome to boot

Grant

 

[ralphus]

Any one know more about this and what the techies tweaked to get it?

Dave

I vaguely recollect that Triumph found a couple of extra ponies when they did the ECU change in 2007.

Interesting that we did a dyno run on 4 Sprint 1050s a couple of weeks ago and the 07 performed the worst.

Ralphus

 

[Calliway]

Awesome post Don. I couldnt agree more and I too believe the 750cc sport bike is the perfect combo and why no one else makes a GSXR750 equivalent is beyond me.