[Monza275]

No Green light

Tested sensor with continuity tester and it worked. The power wire is NOT hot. No juice from it. Checked fuses. Any suggestions?? Side stand switch tested and works fine. Acts as if bike is in gear. Bike will start (with clutch in) with stand up. But won’t start with stand down, as if it thinks bike is in first gear.

Any help?
Nick

 

[Ripper]

Depends what you call the 'power wire'. The neutral switch works by grounding the attached wire, which runs to two places - the dash bulb, which lights up when grounded, and pin 10 of the igniter. The sidestand switch grounds pin 9 of the igniter. Both of these pins need to be grounded before the bike will run.

If your oil light is on with ignition, then the neutral light also has power. Both of those bulbs is fed power by the Green/Red wire in the dash harness. So you should measure 12v at the bulb.

The clutch switch supplies a ground to the headlight cutout relay, which enables the starter circuit. It gets the ground from either the stand switch or the neutral switch. This is why the starter won't work with the stand down, because pin 9 of the igniter is only grounded with the stand up. All this takes place via a diode pack embedded in the main wiring harness.

The diode pack is what I would put my money on. They are a known troublesome component on carbed models because when they fail the main harness has to be unwrapped, the diode pack replaced and then the harness rewrapped. The work is soul destroying.

If you are measuring full battery voltage at the bulbs (Green/Red to oil/neutral), and continuity from the neutral switch connection (underneath the engine) to ground (engine case/bolts) when the bike is in neutral, then it has to be the diode pack I'm afraid. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[Monza275]

Depends what you call the 'power wire'. The neutral switch works by grounding the attached wire, which runs to two places - the dash bulb, which lights up when grounded, and pin 10 of the igniter. The sidestand switch grounds pin 9 of the igniter. Both of these pins need to be grounded before the bike will run.

If your oil light is on with ignition, then the neutral light also has power. Both of those bulbs is fed power by the Green/Red wire in the dash harness. So you should measure 12v at the bulb.

The clutch switch supplies a ground to the headlight cutout relay, which enables the starter circuit. It gets the ground from either the stand switch or the neutral switch. This is why the starter won't work with the stand down, because pin 9 of the igniter is only grounded with the stand up. All this takes place via a diode pack embedded in the main wiring harness.

The diode pack is what I would put my money on. They are a known troublesome component on carbed models because when they fail the main harness has to be unwrapped, the diode pack replaced and then the harness rewrapped. The work is soul destroying.

If you are measuring full battery voltage at the bulbs (Green/Red to oil/neutral), and continuity from the neutral switch connection (underneath the engine) to ground (engine case/bolts) when the bike is in neutral, then it has to be the diode pack I'm afraid. Hope this helps and good luck.

RIPPER,


This is very helpful. I am getting a red oil light and I have tested the continuity on the sensor. On someone else's thread it looks like the diodes are under the tank and look like a lump in a snake that swallowed a small box. Im going to pull the tank and take a look.

I tested the stand switch by starting the bike with the stand up and not being able to start the bike with the stand down...while in neutral. And the bike acted as if in gear.

One last thought. I bought the bike (2007 T100) recently. It has 1000 miles and hasn't been run in 13 years. The reason is the original owner dropped the bike, messed up the right side and then parked it. I bought it, rebuilt the carbs, cleaned the tank and replaced the right side pipe, engine cover and so on.

If the diode(s) was bad, would Is till get a red oil light and no green neutral light? Or are the two diodes, one for each light?

 

[Ripper]

If the diode(s) was bad, would Is till get a red oil light and no green neutral light?

That is correct. One thing to remember here, is that the clutch only disables the starter, not the actual ignition, so the bike will run but the starter button won't work. Pin 9 of the igniter disables the ignition.

So - the heart of the starter system is the headlight cutout relay (this is usually the left-most relay under the left side panel). When you press the start button, this supplies power to activate the relay, which then flips over and diverts power from the headlamp (light goes off) to the starter solenoid, thereby cranking the engine. It flips back over when you let go of the start button and the headlight comes back on.

At the same time, there must be a ground path to the relay, else the relay cannot activate. This is provided by the clutch switch, through the diode pack to pin 9 (stand switch) and pin 10 (neutral switch). So, if the stand is down (pin 9 not grounded), and the diode to the neutral side in the pack (there are 2) is bad, there is no ground path for the headlight cutout relay and it cannot activate the starter. The neutral light also depends on this ground path to light up, so you don't get a dash light either. That tells me the clutch switch is working and the diode pack is faulty.

Here's a wiring diagram of all safety interlocks on carbed models.

 

[Ripper]

On someone else's thread it looks like the diodes are under the tank and look like a lump in a snake that swallowed a small box. Im going to pull the tank and take a look.

Don't expect to find much, the diode pack looks just like a power transistor with 3 legs and contains two diodes. It is not a large component so won't make the harness swell that much. You should be able to spot it before unwrapping the harness though. You are correct that it is in the "under the tank" area of the wiring harness. You might find it a good idea to break the wires out and mount the diode pack outside the harness (not mounted as such but just taped to the harness and insulated). If this ever happened again it would be a lot less hassle to replace.

The stand switch is also a troublesome component when it gets dirt in it. Yours is working fine right now, but there is a way to monitor the switch, by wiring in a dash bulb or Red LED between pins 2 and 9 of the igniter. This would work exactly like the neutral light, and you would then have a dash warning light that your stand is down and also a means of knowing whether the stand switch has failed, because the light would not come on with the stand down. Just a thought, some might find it useful.

Also, when it comes to rewrapping the harness, use nothing other than harness tape. This is thin, flexible and non adhesive. Many people I know have used electrician's insulating tape and ended up with a harness as stiff as an iron bar.

 

[Monza275]

Ripper,

First of all, thank you for the help with this.

I "think" I have the diode. Can you look at the photos and see if this is the culprit you've been speaking about?

 

[Monza275]

Also the diode is marked

B3 on one side
D129 on the other

 

[Monza275]

CORRECTION

the diode is marked

B3 on one side
0129 on the other

 

[Monza275]

Does anyone know if there is a triumph part number for this?

 

[Ripper]

Can you look at the photos and see if this is the culprit

Looks like it to me, although I'm surprised to see that its mounted in a box outside the harness. AFAIK they were usually embedded and wrapped in blue tape.

Does anyone know if there is a triumph part number for this?

The diodes are only there to steer voltage so you can make your own diode pack very easily. From eBay or similar, get 2 x 1N4007 rectifier diodes and solder them together, back to back, then add 3 wires to connect to the harness. There's a section about diodes in my PDF on here:

Turn Signals - Everything you wanted to know

Possibly a bit late but I thought that I would take all the questions and queries, and all the common problems with turn signals and write a tutorial which addresses them. Hope someone finds it useful.

www.triumphrat.net

That, and the drawing I posted earlier in this thread will show you how to connect the two diodes to make your own diode pack. Much cheaper than an OEM part and smaller too.

 

[Monza275]

Looks like it to me, although I'm surprised to see that its mounted in a box outside the harness. AFAIK they were usually embedded and wrapped in blue tape.

Ripper,

Again thank you for the help. Before I break out my soldering gun (where ever the hell that thing is 🙂 ) is there a source for teh OEM part? Or a part number. I called my local Triumph dealer. The parts guys are nice but answers like, “you need a new harness”, aren’t much help.

Before I start making my own: (and Again, I really appreciate this)

Do you know where I can get an OEM?
Do you know a part number (there was a number 0129 on the diode pack)?
Did you make one?
Do you have a picture of what it looks like finished? I can solder but I am not sure what to solder to what? LOL

And last resort, If this doesn't work out. Why cant I run a Key Hot wire to one side of the bulb, run the other wire to the neutral sensor? As a last resort?


Monza275
Nick

PS; The photo of the Diode/holder you see is "after" I used a razor blade to carefully cut through the harness tape.

 

[Monza275]

Here is a wiring diagram. Is the diode pack #36 in this??

 

[Monza275]

Lastly, Im going to start a new thread and see if anyone can identify the diode pack. Either a source or a part number.

 

[Ripper]

Here is a wiring diagram. Is the diode pack #36 in this??

Yup, that's the one. The diagram shows what is inside the diode pack - 2 diodes. But don't try opening it up because they physically look nothing like that.

Do you know where I can get an OEM?

No. I would suggest trying for a used one, on eBay, but you'd have to buy the whole harness. You're not likely to get a diode pack from a dealer, and if you do it will be by buying a brand new wiring harness. Great if you can afford another mortgage. Make your own, its easy and costs pennies.

Do you know a part number (there was a number 0129 on the diode pack)?

That is not a part number, so you can't use it to get a new one. I searched for it yesterday and drew a blank. I don't know if there's a Triumph part number (would start with T followed by a load of digits). But I'd be very surprised if Triumph sell the diode pack separately anyway, as its 'part of the harness'.

Did you make one?

I've made hundreds of them. There is one in the PDF, used to modify the flasher dash light but that's the reverse of yours. Still, there are pictures at the end, showing how the two diodes are connected together, to form 3 connections.

Do you have a picture of what it looks like finished? I can solder but I am not sure what to solder to what? LOL

Okay - no I don't have a picture, but you don't need one. If you read through my PDF there is a section (Introduction to diodes) on diodes that shows you what one looks like. The silver band on one end is the important thing, follow that and either your diagram or mine to see which way around they are connected. Then follow your diagram again and that will show you the connections to the wires in the harness. That's all it is - 2 small diodes, connected together at one end with 3 wires soldered on, then insulated with heat shrink tubing. As long as you connect the joined ends to the clutch switch wire, it doesn't matter which diode goes to the neutral or stand switches.

A diode is cylindrical in shape, with two wires and a silver band on one end, that's all. You still end up with the 3 connections.

The part number for the diodes is 1N4007 and you need 2 of them (eBay or Radio Shack if you have one).

 

[Ripper]

And last resort, If this doesn't work out. Why cant I run a Key Hot wire to one side of the bulb, run the other wire to the neutral sensor? As a last resort?

Because that is how its wired already.

 

[Monza275]

Some great news. I got this link and it matches what I needed. Ironically, I just ordered a pack of diodes to make my own (using your PDF). But I think this should work. Of course, that's assuming this is the problem.

Here is the link.

MT090 Series with built in Diode

MT 090 non sealed series with built in diode for security systems, circuit isolating. Single or double diode and connector using the MT non sealed terminal, doide 6098-0129, 6098-0126. Great prices, and Cheap shipping!!

www.cycleterminal.com

 

[Ripper]

Yes its the first one on the page.

Of course, that's assuming this is the problem.

Say what? The only other thing that it could possibly be, is the neutral switch, and you say you have tested that and its okay. It doesn't matter whether the bulb in the idiot light has power or not, the clutch interlock would still work.

Either way, now would be a good opportunity to make your own diode pack and wire it outside the harness instead of having that massive box buried in the wiring. A home made diode pack is only about half the size of the one you have taken out. It would be no problem to tape it onto the wiring harness, and if you needed to do this again you would not have to unwrap the harness.

 

[DUCKMAN]

Respectfully, I genuinely appreciate the time and knowledge that you have shared. However, there are only two reason to use a non oem or oem style replacement part is the lack of availably or an inherent design flaw. For $5.00, I am not fabricating electrical parts when I don't have to.

 

[Ripper]

Respectfully, I genuinely appreciate the time and knowledge that you have shared. However, there are only two reason to use a non oem or oem style replacement part is the lack of availably or an inherent design flaw.

Also respectively, I disagree, being that you are neither the OP with the problem, or me with the advice. If you had read the thread you would know that the OP has ordered both. I made the suggestion, originally, because an alternative was neither viable (new harness) or available at the time, until you found a link to a replacement part, and for that my hat goes off to you. My reason for fabricating the part was to get the OP out of trouble. That is a reason that you have failed to mention in your criticism. And if you hadn't have found that link, were you prepared to get the OP out of trouble?

Being that the OP has ordered both the diodes and the OEM (it's not - it will replace it though), I again suggested the use of the diodes as a smaller alternative, that with a few minutes soldering would a) move the component to outside the harness, and b) would be infinitely easier to access in the future, not to mention getting rid of the huge box to mount a tiny device. These are distinct advantages over the OEM single device. Of course, the OP is free to choose for himself now that he has both options. I don't know about you, but I'm very cautious about what advice I give and always try to weigh the pros and cons.

For $5.00, I am not fabricating electrical parts when I don't have to.

What an arrogant statement. Nobody asked you to.

But if you want to bring cost into it, I can get a pack of 10 diodes for less than £1 in UK money, which is, I believe, just over $1.00. Just saying. I'm currently in the process of repairing a 2012 S3 ignition switch. The member cannot just buy another switch ($181 + key programming), the barrel and key has to be kept since the key contains an RFID chip and the barrel contains the receiver, which disarms the immobilizer. So, if my fabrication works, then I'll save that guy well over $200.

So - why do I want to fabricate electrical parts even when I don't have to? Well, you are not me, and I'm not you. Cost isn't always the cause, especially with things like the diodes. Apart from seeing a challenge in it, it can also provide useful alternative methods to get the job done - a plan B often with improvements/advantages over plan A.

 

[DUCKMAN]

Knock your self out. There is no point in making a $5.00 part if you don't have to. You have the knowledge, expertise and desire to fabricate. 99% of us don't. I genuinely appreciate the wealth of knowledge you shared. Your speciality is obviously in electronics. My speciality is parts. You just have to know how to find them. Seriously, since it appears to be used by other manufactures, the part may also be readily available from a local Honda dealer. There are significant number of parts on a Triumph that can be had when Triumph doesn't have parts available except as assemblies. You just have to know where to look. Is the part correct? I advised the author to confirm with the vendor compatibility. It appears to be correct.