Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Bike of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 126 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys!

I bought a crashed 2005 Daytona 955i and now trying to fix her up (no service history). Got a question now..

I did search the forums, and have figured that I probably need to check the valve clearances, one of the reasons is sound, the other - starting issues. Sometimes it starts right up, sometimes not. While cold it would start, not right away, sometimes even need to add a little throttle, but it starts. Yesterday I had a little test ride to see how it runs on the street, and when I stopped to show it to a friend, I couldn't start it up for 10 minutes, then, with the last juice the battery had, it managed to fire up, but barely. (Engine was warm/hot when I failed starting it)

I added a video of it first running, and I think there is a weird noise coming out of the engine. I know they are not the quiet type, but this seemed way off. I think you can best hear the sound at around 0:05. It's like a metallic ticking sound? Something like that. You guys should know if it's anything abnormal, I hope.

Video link to YouTube with sound

Any tips are appreciated!

I have also ordered USB OBD2 reader so I can read error codes using TuneECU, because they still show up after 3 full heat cycles, but I will get that in May.

Another quick questions, just to be sure - valve shims are 9.48mm in diameter, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Sorry but I can't hear the sound. Regarding starting issue, I would suggest that you check your crank position sensor gap. That item can cause problems with starting. Also check the wiring connection on the outside of the casing for a good connection. I have had issue with it with starting after it has stopped for awhile.
Can't find the shim diameters in my manual. Last time I did mine I went to the local Japanese motorcycle shop and they were able to help me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Ahh, I figured the video sound might not work out that well, as at the moment of filming it I didn't focus on the sound as I didn't yet know I had an issue and was just happy it started. But there is a metallic clicking sound, as my brother described it - like a clock ticking (but faster, of course). I might add another video at some other time, but I won't be seeing it for the next week it seems, got some other stuff to do.
Alright, will check the crank position sensor gap and the wiring connection when I can. Is it supposed to be 1.0mm or 0.8mm? Thanks for the input!

Still, any comments from others are also welcome.

EDIT: Here is a link to a extra short clip I found on phone from when I was checking speedometer. I guess the sound is better, but still not sure about if you can hear it clearly. - YouTube video
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
868 Posts
I have a 05 Daytona 955iwith 35k miles on it and have never had need to adjust the valve clearances checked them at 15k and 30k, and they were the same both times in spec. I always use top quality fully synthetic 5-40 oil so maybe that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Hey guys.
Managed to get my hands on the bike faster than I thought.
Can't check the crank position sensor yet, but here's probably the best possible video of the sound I am mentioning, got the bike to working temperatures, and got the camera real close.
The video
EDIT: I believe I can now confirm that it doesn't want to start when hot, but not always. Just today I had a 10km run, stopped for 1 minute max, started up right away, no problems. Then stopped again after another 10km for around an hour, starts right up. After that I had a longer run, 50km, after which it did not want to start. At first it felt like battery tried turning, then it felt like it died. But I now know that if I pause for around 10 minutes and try again, battery will work as new (almost) and it will make sounds as if it wants to start, and after few turns it will start. It couldn't be a battery issue, can it? It should have charged something when I rode those 50km. And then, did another 80km after that incident. Stopped at home, turned off the engine, tried turning it on and it worked like charm, no issue.
EDIT 2: It sometimes also might start up weird, as in not getting the revs right up. Like gets to ~2k or ~1.5k, then drops to 1k and dies. Restart and goes to ~1.5k and then as it warms up goes to normal revs. As when in previous EDIT I mentioned the starting issue after 50km, when it did want to start after those 10 minutes, it didnt really want to start, it kind of got low revs, and I had to twist the throttle a bit till I get the revs up (doesnt do quick revs, does not feel as responsive, so to say). And then it idled and revved as it should.

I also had a problem with speed not showing up, but by doing little research, I figured the magnet was cracked. Just checked. It was.

20200501_132058.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Alright guys, it might be an electrical issue. (still wants to hear your opinion about the sound in my previous reply though, as I am still not sure if that's a normal sound of engine, and you can hear the ticking I was mentioning)

So this morning I tried running the bike. Did not start, had some oldschool voltmeter laying around (my multimeter is not currently with me), checked battery, around 11 volts. Not good.
So I charged the battery - checked it, was 12-ish volts (it's not that precise, that thing), tried running it, started as it should.
Checked the voltage when running - it was still showing 12-ish volts - Should have been 13-ish, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Checked the fuses, #2 had 15A fuse, supposed to have 30A. It wasn't burnt though, but replaced with 30A.

Does anyone know what these 2 connectors are supposed to be connected to? I can't find anything it might connect to under the seat.
First picture has 4 wires, 2 black and 2 red.
Second picture has 2 wires (can see in 3rd picture)

20200502_151757.jpg

20200502_151906.jpg
20200502_151922.jpg


EDIT: Are these connectors for voltage regulator? I just googled something and saw "REGULATOR RECTIFIER MOSFET TRIUMPH DAYTONA 955I OEM T1300535 T1300560" that had the same outputs. I see that my regulator isnt a factory one, yellow wires gets connected to connector near battery box, but the 2 other wires (not 4) - blue and red - I had connected straight to the battery. The red wire has a place for 30A fuse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Making discoveries after discoveries.
Got a multimeter from neighbour, and it seems the stator is dead.
I did check voltages:
1. Everything off, 12.5V
2. Ignition on, but engine off, 12.12V
3. Bike running, 12.48V

Unplugged the stator 3 pin connector, checked all pins while engine was running, all 3 were around 0.1-0.2V AC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
And today my brother visited and took his cool multimeter with him.
Honestly, I don't even know what the hell is going on.

Checked continuity of stator - all three connections beeped (1-2, 1-3, 2-3)
Checked resistance of stator - all three had around 0.3 ohms (1-2, 1-3, 2-3)
Checked resistance of all 3 stator pins against the frame of bike - 2 of 3 tests showed resistance in mega ohms. And if I understand correctly from @DEcosse post about charging system check, that's for sure a bad stator.
Then again checked the stator while engine is running, AC voltages - All 3 had around ~16V AC (one multimeter end to pin, other against the frame) at idle. At 5000 rpm it had ~46V AC to 2 of the pins, and ~38V AC at third. -So it seems that stator is good? I'd really like an opinion from @DEcosse , I know that you know how it should be.

Again checked the battery with those 3 conditions mentioned in previous post.
1. Everything off, 12.6V DC
2. Ignition on, but engine off, 12.0V DC and dropping
3. Bike running, 12.26V DC

Then I checked the RR, also with the method DEcosse had mentioned in his post about charging system check.
Unplugged all the ends of RR, using diode test, measured everything from each of the incoming AC wires to both of the output DC wires.
All were good except for one, where from one of the AC inputs to negative(-) terminal of RR DC it showed 0V. Did the same test with resistance check, and it was same for resistance, showed infinite ohms on that same setup, while with other wire-combo it showed the resistance.

So RR for sure is dead and needs to be changed. Right?
But what about stator? It is giving voltage. I don't know why with neighbours multimeter showed 0.2V AC, maybe I left it on DC? Or I didn't have a good connection with frame..

Need some opinions, guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Was going trough all the RR listed in the forums, and it seems that:
SH847AA would be the best option RR for my Daytona 955i? It's not that expensive, at ~150$ with shipping, and a series one that can withstand 50Amps. (not that I would exceed the 30A limit, but still, a reserve is nice)

Compufire is ~250$ with shipping, and as I understand, not regulating, if the RPM goes over 10k, which my 955i exceeds with 11500 RPM if I really give it some gas. And max 40Amps.

FH020 (or FH012) are MOSFET, and while still good, the price is still around ~140$ with shipping, and then the SH847 would be the better option, considering that is a series RR.

SH775 - not sure about how good this would be, and the price is around ~100-120$ with shipping. 35Amp rating, if I am correct.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,108 Posts
(I changed the title of the thread since you are way off the original subject now)

the 4-way connector is the OEM main harness connector for the OEM R/R - if R/R was wired directly to the battery, it makes OEM Fuse 2 redundant.

The 2-way connector is just an accessory connector

Checked resistance of all 3 stator pins against the frame of bike - 2 of 3 tests showed resistance in mega ohms. And if I understand correctly from @DEcosse post about charging system check, that's for sure a bad stator.
First all three should read the same - they will all be either 'short' or open - not possible to have one be different than the other two (because each pin to pin in your initial test shows virtually zero ohms, therefor every pin to ground will all read the same)
Don't measure to frame - frame is not a good ground point - use an engine ground or even the battery negative.
But even accounting for the anomaly of measuring two of them 'open' - I presume that infers the other was 'short??? - if you get a short on the isolation test then stator is bad - if it passes that (all are 'open' to ground) then stator is most likely good.
Then again checked the stator while engine is running, AC voltages - All 3 had around ~16V AC (one multimeter end to pin, other against the frame) at idle. At 5000 rpm it had ~46V AC to 2 of the pins, and ~38V AC at third.
You do not measure voltages against the frame - you measure pin to pin 1-2. 2-3, 1-3 - all three should be the same at any given rpm (when you test at higher rpm it is imperative that the rpm is identical for each measurement or the 'sameness' test is invalid - only way to do that is lock the throttle)
HOWEVER - if you are measuring that kind of voltage to the FRAME it sounds like your isolation test is bad - revisit that isolation (resistance) test - I believe it must fail that if you are measuring AC Voltage between stator and frame (that SHOULD be no different than measuring AC Voltage between your wall socket and frame!!! If there is no physical connection between stator and the bike - which would be the case if all is good - then you cannot get a voltage measured there)
Again - do not use the 'frame' as any kind of voltage reference anyway - the frame is NOT a true circuit ground - there is NO current that flows through the frame and is not truly grounded, only making spurious connection through powder coated components - always use either engine OR best, the actual battery negative.

All were good except for one, where from one of the AC inputs to negative(-) terminal of RR DC it showed 0V. Did the same test with resistance check, and it was same for resistance, showed infinite ohms on that same setup, while with other wire-combo it showed the resistance.
Shorts are more common than 'open' however if you have one 'phase' that reads different in EITHER regard vs the other two, then it suggests you most certainly have a bad R/R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks for changing the title!

First all three should read the same - they will all be either 'short' or open - not possible to have one be different than the other two (because each pin to pin in your initial test shows virtually zero ohms, therefor every pin to ground will all read the same)
Don't measure to frame - frame is not a good ground point - use an engine ground or even the battery negative.
But even accounting for the anomaly of measuring two of them 'open' - I presume that infers the other was 'short??? - if you get a short on the isolation test then stator is bad - if it passes that (all are 'open' to ground) then stator is most likely good.
I re-did the test by putting on end to battery negative, and it showed all were 'open'. So stator seems to still be good.

You do not measure voltages against the frame - you measure pin to pin 1-2. 2-3, 1-3 - all three should be the same at any given rpm (when you test at higher rpm it is imperative that the rpm is identical for each measurement or the 'sameness' test is invalid - only way to do that is lock the throttle)
HOWEVER - if you are measuring that kind of voltage to the FRAME it sounds like your isolation test is bad - revisit that isolation (resistance) test - I believe it must fail that if you are measuring AC Voltage between stator and frame (that SHOULD be no different than measuring AC Voltage between your wall socket and frame!!! If there is no physical connection between stator and the bike - which would be the case if all is good - then you cannot get a voltage measured there)
Again - do not use the 'frame' as any kind of voltage reference anyway - the frame is NOT a true circuit ground - there is NO current that flows through the frame and is not truly grounded, only making spurious connection through powder coated components - always use either engine OR best, the actual battery negative.

Shorts are more common than 'open' however if you have one 'phase' that reads different in EITHER regard vs the other two, then it suggests you most certainly have a bad R/R
After this comment I tried remembering what I knew about electricity (was studying this, but life made me go into different profession), 3 phase that is, and figured my measurements were ok, as I simply tested phase to earth. If I had tested phase to phase, I would have gotten the real, good results. As to get the 3 phase voltage, I need to multiply single phase voltage by square root of 3 (around 1.73). If I do that, then my 16V AC single phase becomes 27.7V AC 3 phase voltage. All of the AC measurements were identical for idle engine speed. And the ~5k rpm single phase voltage of 46V, when measured against another phase, would be 79.7V AC. So all would be withing the possible margins that I have read here (~20-30V AC idle, and around ~70-80V AC at 5k rpm).
I guess the single phase 38V AC @ 5k rpm was because my brother twisted the throttle a bit and messed up the reading.


So yes, it seems that the stator is indeed good, and the RR is faulty.

Would you agree that SH847AA would be the best RR in my case?

Also please spare the 20 seconds and listen to this : Sound : Just want to be sure that's a sound that Triumph normally makes.

EDIT: Anyone that has used the SH847 RR, did you guys get something like this: LINK 1 or this: LINK 2
It's supposedly the same item besides the looks and that second one is Italian made it seems, but for the first the price is 180EUR (200USD) with shipping, for other is 150EUR (165USD) with shipping.
First one is supposedly Suzuki OEM (it's RR for Vstrom), but could that be the only difference? I'd be more than happy to save the money if there is no difference.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,108 Posts
did you guys get something like this: LINK 1 or this: LINK 2
It's supposedly the same item besides the looks and that second one is Italian made it seems, but for the first the price is 180EUR (200USD) with shipping, for other is 150EUR (165USD) with shipping.
Link 1 looks genuine - link 2 is not - could be anything when it comes to "clones", possibly/probably not even a series device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, alright. I really wouldn't have expected to hear something like that from an engine. But if it's normal.. ?

Link 1 looks genuine - link 2 is not - could be anything when it comes to "clones", possibly/probably not even a series device
I thought the second one might be a bad clone, saw a post in one of Rocket 3 forums, that mentioned similar RR to this one, that was actually a MOSFET not a Series.
Alright, then I won't cheap out and will get the genuine looking one. (Will also call local dealers to check their prices for 2014-2017 Suzuki DL1000 Vstrom RR, but they will probably be in 200EUR (220USD) range)
Still, will need the connectors, I doubt they send anything extra there, but thanks to DEcosse's post about RR, all the info is there.

Thanks, a lot!
Especially big Thanks to DEcosse. Many have said that already, and many will. Your input on these issues is amazing.

Will probably update the post when I get the parts and will start working on it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,108 Posts
your cheapest way to go on the connectors is just to buy the Triumph Link Lead - then you can just plug it in to OEM wiring
(The output plugs into that 4-way connector from your first post - or you can modify the output wiring section to go direct to battery)
Heads up - Recognize that the SH847 is quite a bit bigger than OEM or even MOSFET however so consider where it might go.
 
1 - 20 of 126 Posts
Top