Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Bike of the Month Challenge!

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all!
I haven't been here or on the bike for while. I have had some electrical gremlins for a while, meaning a flashing dash on and off, while riding. The speedo and tach would cut out completely a few seconds and then come back on a few seconds. I would also see a faint CEL flickering, but no stored error codes. The bike would run OK even with this, typically 1hour ride, stop for coffee and start up OK for return. Anyway, I recently decided to try and fix the issue, but a no crank/start due to battery that failed in load test (always on battery tender but 4-5 years old, so due for replacement). New battery installed and started up fine, but the flashing dash was still present..
I checked no 2 fuse 30A and it had partially melted, but still functioning - not blown. (See pics of the Green 30A fuse.)

Checked voltage at battery, ignition OFF 12.9 V
Checked voltage at battery while running just barely over 13V, maybe 13.1V at best.

So I did the checks per DEcosse's charging diagnostics and found no shorts in stator or in R/R.

I decided to do the charging wiring mod as described here with direct wiring from R/R to Battery, using 10 gauge wire with fuse-holder (reg size, not mini) to Positive and 10 gauge wire directly to Negative on Battery.
I cut off the OEM connector and spliced the 10 gauge wire to the the two red ones from R/R and soldered and same for the black one to two black wires from R/R. Electric tape and heat shrink.

I got a nice 14.5V or more while running engine and charging, and no flashing on and off of the dash anymore.

So, all good I thought and went for a ride. All was good for the first 10 minutes or so, until the dash completely shut off, no tach, no speedo, no flashing - just blank screen. And it did not come back on. I saw the flickering weak CEL light again.
I rode a little longer and then turned around so not to get stranded.
On the way back I got some mild occasional misfire, until I opened up on the throttle a bit more and got more misfire and a solid CEL showing.

I made it back to my garage after maybe 30 - 40 min riding, and started to investigate. Hooked up laptop and TuneECU, error codes (tot of three) P0352, P1352 and P0135 showed igintion coil issues (2), oxygen sensor (1) and 11V while running. So no charging, explaining the misfires and dash...Cleared error codes.
Checked with multimeter and just over 12V now on battery / ignition OFF and 11V and change while running.
Confirmed a blown fuse on the newly installed 10 gauge direct wire R/R to battery.

I put in another fuse ( a 25A this time, running low on 30A) and turned ignitioin on, fine, started engine and fuse blew right away.

Opened up the heat-shrink and spliced connections to see if anything had come on done or shorted.
Everything was still intact, I could not get the splices to break, even though admittedly the solderings are not ideal. My soldering irons do not get the thick 10 gauge hot enough for a really good result, but again there is no loose contact there.
So, I tried with another 30A fuse and started up engine, this time the fuse held, but I didn't ride or ran the engine more than a minute or two. Just enough to test voltage at battery while running, now down to pre-wiring mod values : 13.1V!
I wiggled the two "new" moded wires from the R/R while engine was running to see if anything would change in readings or fuse etc - no change. No new CEL or error codes.

So not sure what is going on, it seemed at first the wiring mod, fixed my issues and gave good charging. But then after a little running NOT...

Could it be that the R/R is defective after all? I believe it is stock (see pic) and I have understood from reading here that they are often create problems.

Looking for possible next steps...any tests to be done on the R/R? What are some current options for reasonably priced replacements that could be found on e.g. e-bay?

Any other suggested tests for other possible culprits if not R/R?
752833
752834
752835
752836
752837
IMG_20210418_143816861.jpg
IMG_20210418_143952350.jpg
IMG_20210418_154310171.jpg
IMG_20210418_144651828.jpg
IMG_20210418_155953011.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
2004 Daytona 955i, 2018 Indian Roadmaster, 1980 CB650C in resto
Joined
·
17,801 Posts
Last year my 2018 Roadmaster taught me a lesson. Voltage readings on a battery with no draw do not tell the whole story. It held charge, but it didn't have the current to start the bike. And if you think these bike's "dashboards" act strange when the battery starts to die, you should see what a more modern bike with full infotainment system does. It looked like a motorcycle trying to turn into a disco.

So, one question; how old is your battery?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Last year my 2018 Roadmaster taught me a lesson. Voltage readings on a battery with no draw do not tell the whole story. It held charge, but it didn't have the current to start the bike. And if you think these bike's "dashboards" act strange when the battery starts to die, you should see what a more modern bike with full infotainment system does. It looked like a motorcycle trying to turn into a disco.

So, one question; how old is your battery?
Thank you for your reply. Admittedly my post is long, but as mentioned I just recently started working on this and replaced the battery in the process.
So to answer your question, the battery is a couple of weeks old! 😃👍
 

·
Premium Member
2004 Daytona 955i, 2018 Indian Roadmaster, 1980 CB650C in resto
Joined
·
17,801 Posts
Dang, didn't read carefully enough. Odd, I cut back to four pots of coffee today. Maybe I should have gone up to six instead of cutting back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There's nothing wrong with your charging system - you need a better fuse holder.
Really? Do you think the fuse-holder in the moded red wire is not giving good enough contact / not conducting well enough? Should I then be able to get intermittent readings on charging Voltage while running engine and at same time pulling / wiggling on the added fuse-holder, to test your theory? I can go back and test more of that...Just to clarify again, the Green fuse as shown in picture that was also almost melted but that was in the stock fuse-holder spot #2, BEFORE the wiring mod and added fuse-holder on 10gauge wire. (#2 fuse was removed after the mod and that spot is now empty).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,109 Posts
Do you think the fuse-holder in the moded red wire is not giving good enough contact / not conducting well enough?
Exactly
There wasn't really a problem to begin with - 13V does not indicate anything is broken, it's just pretty typical with the OEM wiring scheme
Fact that you have 14+ volts when first executed the mod definitely shows the components are working
What is happening is that because of poor contact in the Fuse Line, you have high resistance and the Fuse is overheating and physically melting - NOT because of an electrical overcurrent.
Those pre-molded fuse holders are generally crap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Exactly
There wasn't really a problem to begin with - 13V does not indicate anything is broken, it's just pretty typical with the OEM wiring scheme
Fact that you have 14+ volts when first executed the mod definitely shows the components are working
What is happening is that because of poor contact in the Fuse Line, you have high resistance and the Fuse is overheating and physically melting - NOT because of an electrical overcurrent.
Those pre-molded fuse holders are generally crap.
Ouch, I bought a 2-pack on Amazon..., well the good news is it would be an easy fix to my problem. Is it the fuse holder itself then that is bad or the connection between it and the wire? the one I got is the regular size, not mini, but I think I already posted that. Do you recommend any particular style of fuse holder? A separate holder that you attach to the wire your self or just another brand / style of pre-attached to wire?

As always, thank you so much for your expertise! :)(y)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,109 Posts
MetriPack 630 is a high quality Fuse Holder



or
PLUS

or

The connections to the terminals as well as the interconnect at either end need to be stellar - ideally crimped AND soldered.

Note that if you assemble these yourself, you push the wire through the holder first THEN crimp on the terminal and 'pull to seat' the terminal into the holder.
(You can crimp onto wire first, but then you have to push the whole wire down through the from the fuse side - of course can only do that with a bare wire that is not already captive on other end)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
MetriPack 630 is a high quality Fuse Holder



or
PLUS

or

The connections to the terminals as well as the interconnect at either end need to be stellar - ideally crimped AND soldered.

Note that if you assemble these yourself, you push the wire through the holder first THEN crimp on the terminal and 'pull to seat' the terminal into the holder.
(You can crimp onto wire first, but then you have to push the whole wire down through the from the fuse side - of course can only do that with a bare wire that is not already captive on other end)
Great, thank you much!
I'll probably order the Metripack 630, pre-wired to 12 AWG on their site. This way I risk one less connection problem by not crimping myself. I'll see if I can find a better soldering iron with some more heat without breaking the bank...any suggestions? I have a couple of cheapos 40 and 60W pencil style that work OK for smaller wires, but 10 awg is getting a bit much to heat up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I had very similar issues to you and mine ended up being a bad stator. Replaced it with a Suzuki one, 0 problems since. That would be my guess.
Edit: STATOR. Autocorrect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I had very similar issues to you and mine ended up being a bad stator. Replaced it with a Suzuki one, 0 problems since. That would be my guess.
Edit: STATOR. Autocorrect.Reply
Thanks.
Terry Colley also
suggested the same earlier here. I figured I'll wait with the stator until I have replaced the fuse holder that is on order first and see what happens.
Did you have any charging voltage though? Mine was over 14V first after wiring mod and then blew the fuse. Then 13.1V, so it is charging, but not when blowing fuses of course....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The Fuse is not blowing - the fuse is melting - that means excessive heat which means high resistance joints
You cannot get 13.1 V from a bad stator
You cannot get 14.5V from a bad stator
Stator does not fail and fix itself when a fuse is replaced
I agree on the stator, I don't think that is the problem at this point.
Just to clarify on the fuses...I will show a picture of three of them.
Fuse #1 on the left in picture:
30 A that was installed and running in the original stock wiring, melted but not blown. The bike was still running with this but with a flashing dash. Eventually no start due to bad battery. Battery replaced and ran again with this fuse, but still flashing dash.

Fuse#2 middle in picture:
30A installed after wiring mod in the new molded fuse holder. Ran first with 14.5V charge at battery and on ride. At some point it did blow, causing no charge and misfires on ride, as confirmed with 11V reading.

Fuse#3 Right in picture:
25A installed after return of ride (25A due to running low on 30A at the time), fine when turning ignition on. As soon as starting engine, it did blow though.

After fuse#3, I checked opened heat shrink, checked wiring etc and found nothing. I installed another fuse and started and tested voltage to 13.1V. That fuse did not melt or blow...but I have not been running any longer time or rides.
I am guessing maybe the fuses are not seating very well in the new fuse holder and causing bad contact...?

Either way, the new Metripack 630, pre-wired to 12 AWG is on its way, ETA next week. So it will be installed.

Apart from the fuse holder, can poor contact / soldering 6" upstream at connection to R/R or 6" down stream at battery connection have the same effects on fuses / charging voltage?
I think they are OK now, but I will obviously do my best to make these connections better or as good as possible with the new fuse holder.

Cheers :)(y)
IMG_20210423_090533463.jpg
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,109 Posts
So indeed fuses 2 & 3 are blown - & I note you mentioned one blew immediately
That is not the same mechanism as the first one - the latter two are certainly high current caused by short.
That CANNOT be as a result of bad stator - impossible
It looks like you may have created a short in your wiring somewhere - check to be sure that you have nothing touching the frame, particularly at the battery terminals
(You have a LOT of stuff piled up on those battery terminals :D )
(& of course that you definitely didn't reconnect to the wrong terminals during your investigation)
If you damaged your R/R and IT was short, that could also blow the fuse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UPDATE: Well, things are sorted even though I am not absolutely sure what the culprit was. Either the short was between the connection of the splicing of the new wires red and black for the charging mod. Even though I find it hard to believe, since I staggered the splices and insulated with electric tape, but who knows if some strands of the red wire escaped out to the frame, even though I saw no evidence of that after opening up the heat shrink and tape.
Another possibility could maybe be the stock wiring that I had cut between the R/R and male quick connector, I left that in the wiring but I of course taped the red wires sticking out from the male connector - but I guess possible not a good job and it connected with frame. Again no direct evidence of this last scenario, but a possible explanation. I have now instead removed the male connector and carefully and neatly closed up the remaining female connector in the stock wiring with electric tape.

Anyways, I poked around the wiring and this is what I could come up with. I then measured 14.8-14.9V at battery and running at idle. I left the rear plastics off the bike for ease of access and went for a ride without any issues, no flashing dash, no CEL - all normal running. Again checked when back from ride, no blown or melted fuse and a solid 14.8-14.9V range at idle. Again poked and pulled around the wiring with no issues, while still idling and showing 14.8+V.

So I think I am good to go.
I will of course tidy things up and re-solder the spliced connections (which I was not happy with), using newly purchased soldering station, insulate carefully and heat shrink before closing everything up again.:)🤞
IMG_20210501_150318968_HDR.jpg
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top