[Hooli744]

Hi all,

I'm finally getting on with rebuilding the T140v I've had for years, a house restoration & so forth seemed to get in the way for a while.

I'm only at the stage of sending bits off for work I can't do & to that end I need to know the correct OD of the fork stanchions. I've a suspicion they were rechromed undersize before as when I got the bike & they didn't show any wear the fork seals never sealed properly, so I'd like to let the chromer know the correct size to do them.

I've got this info somewhere in the manuals, but I've yet to locate them so this would let me get things started while I search them out.

Thanks.

PS, pic from when it was in one bit & working a few years ago, just for attention.

 

[GrandPaulZ]

Nice special with some cool mods. Thanx for posting a new build thread.

I knew it wasn't a 100th anniversary US Secession model, so I fixed the title.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

Firstly, welcome to the Forum.

need to know the correct OD of the fork stanchions.

1.3610/1.3605in. (33.04/33.03mm.)

From the online copy of the Triumph '73-'78 Workshop Manual, manual page GD8, .pdf page 20.

like to let the chromer know the correct size

You know they should be specifically hard-chromed, not decorative-chromed? Who are using, Philpotts?

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Hooli744]

I was going to use HCP | Hard Chrome Plating & Grinding | Mansfield as they did my Suzuki forks years ago & have been recommended by a mate who builds a lot of customs.

However after posting similar questions on FB I got a lot of people saying the new ones are good quality& cheaper so ordered a new pair from Grin Triumph along with the seals for £95, cheaper than rechroming at £150 plus postage. I'll keep the old ones though, I might get them redone as spares eventually.

 

[Hooli744]

Hi again you lot, sorry I've forgotten to update this for ages. I'd forgot I'd joined here until I was googling for info earlier & found my own post!

I've been slowly cracking on with this, I put the rolling frame together at christmas & have built the engine as far as fitting the head since then. The lump is now in the frame ready for the head to go on next time I do stuff. I've built it up with a 'Spitfire' exhaust cam from t140.com, std compression, std intake cam & the intake cam 1/3rd of a tooth advanced as lots of places online seem to say that helps low & midrange torque where is where I tend to ride. That's pretty much as I built it last time & I was happy with how it run then.

Part of the long delay was sending the head & rods away for repairs. It's had new exhaust inserts fitting, new valves, guides, seats, broken fins fixed, the face skimmed due to old damage. Then the rods had new custom small end bushes as years ago a gudeon seized in one so needed sorting.

I want to change the rearsets it had as they were horrible things with odd pegs on each side. I don't think I want standard pegs but I'm not sure what the other options are, I'm sure someone with more skills could do something with the ones I've got as I like most of them but they aren't 'right'.

Have a pic of how it is now, so you can see where I've got too.

Yes, I'm building her in the kitchen & yes I'm single, people always seem to think those facts go together? lol

 

[Hooli744]

I'm also looking at a neater hose setup for the front brakes, but the only ones I've found so are are Norman Hyde & £75 seems a hell of a lot for two braided hoses.

 

[Hooli744]

Have a few more random build pics just to fill the thread up.

 

[FLY-TRI-GUY]

Thnx for the update pics! It’s in progress and coming along, wtg! ...... FTG

 

[Hooli744]

Yeah I need to decide what I'm doing with an electrics box next really. If I don't slack off this weekend it'll be ready for wiring up.

I still need to order a front mudguard, fix the seat & decide how to fix it so it doesn't break again. Oh & find some rear sets I like, hopefully cheaper than the Hyde ones.

 

[GrandPaulZ]

Have a few more random build pics just to fill the thread up.


View attachment 749201

If you assembled those cases without first smearing the flange sealing compound and removing any excess, you now have sealant debris inside your cases, that can, (and probably will) clog up your critical oilways. At the top rear of the crank seems to be a "bead" of the material that is not even on the case lip... (I hope I'm wrong)

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

£75 seems a hell of a lot for two braided hoses.

It isn't, and that's probably with cheapo swaged and plated end fittings. Go to 600 hose and fittings in the Goodridge online shop, price up hoses with reusable stainless end fittings. However, do that for what it costs, build it yourself and you'll have something that looks good for a long time.

neater hose setup for the front brakes
two braided hoses

Am I right in thinking that's two single continuous hoses, one to each caliper from a double banjo bolt into the master cylinder? Not my definition of "neater" but beauty-eye-beholder, I've found continuous hoses to be a pita when forks need other work and there's suggestions in some recent threads on various forums that the banjo bolt might be causing bleeding problems.

My preference is for a single hose straight out of the master cylinder - similar to your photo. - to a crossover bolted to lower yoke stanchion pinch bolts, hose to each caliper from each end of the crossover, brake lamp pressure switch also mounted on the crossover; however, my Triumphs have standard yokes.

Interesting handlebar levers, do you know their history? Master cylinder one is Lockheed? Clutch lever is ...?

Hth?

Regards,

 

[Hooli744]

If you assembled those cases without first smearing the flange sealing compound and removing any excess, you now have sealant debris inside your cases, that can, (and probably will) clog up your critical oilways. At the top rear of the crank seems to be a "bead" of the material that is not even on the case lip... (I hope I'm wrong)

I tidied it up before putting them together, I agree with your point of not wanting lots floating around inside the cases.

 

[Hooli744]

Hoses & levers

Ta for the suggestion on Goodridge, I'll take a look there shortly.
I say neater as the rest of the hoses on mine are rubber, so it looks odd having a braided hose going to a Tee then two rubber hoses. I agree with you that using a Tee looks tidier, I'll see what I could make up to replace the rubber lower hoses so it all matches.

No idea on the history of the bits sorry, I got sod all history with the bike when I got it except for some invoices off a specialist* for work they'd done so badly the bike blew up on me - full engine rebuild when the sludge trap had never been out & was blocked solid. Some professional job eh?

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

agree with you that using a Tee looks tidier,

Another possibility? is, when Triumph fitted twin discs, they used:-

... bracket-mounted between the yokes behind the headlamp shell; one hose in from the master cylinder, two hoses out to the calipers, pressure switch for the stop lamp in the fourth outlet. Or there's a similar Tee if you don't want a switch. However, these aren't peculiar to Triumph, they're widely-available, Triumph used ones with 3/8"UNF threads but they're also available with metric threads (M10 x 1.00?).

I'll see what I could make up to replace the rubber lower hoses so it all matches.

600 hose and reusable end fittings are DIY if you can work a hacksaw or Dremel cut-off wheel and standard spanners. , Goodridge used to put the instructions in the back of their catalogues but they've recently taken the last one off their website. However, certainly one of their long-time resellers (Merlin Motorsport) still has the instructions available; say if you're going in this direction and I'll find the link?

Btw, I advise using plastic-coated hose - clear's available if you want the bling. Reason I advise against uncoated hose is, if it rubs against anything else between the yokes (say), the braid happily works its way through ally, paint, chrome, etc. Plus, if you fancy, say, orange or vile green hoses, that's available ...

No idea on the history of the bits sorry, I got sod all history with the bike when I got it except for some invoices off a specialist* for work they'd done so badly the bike blew up on me - full engine rebuild when the sludge trap had never been out & was blocked solid. Some professional job eh?

😡 Pity as it looks like someone started to make something good and interesting. Or are the yokes and calipers your work?

Hth.

Regards,

 

[GrandPaulZ]

Have a few more random build pics just to fill the thread up.

View attachment 749207

I sure like a good street tracker...

 

[Hooli744]

Cheers for the tips guys, it's a much more welcoming forum than some to new members. I can't take any credit for the look, it was all done when I got it. Just very badly done & used to fall apart on most rides, having to order a new silencer as one fell off & got flattened by traffic was a typical longer ride... If bits weren't finger tight then they were stripped & 'glued' with silicon, for the full old Brit bike experience haha. I can say though it was the look I liked & why I went for this rather than a standard one.

Brake hose wise, I refitted the old front ones today & they'll do for now. I'm on a bit of a budget so saving £80-100 on fancy hoses is useful. I can always do them in future now I know where to get them. Currently there is no switch on the front brake, but it's good to know I could fit one in the future. It's not a major thing for me as I always tend to use both brakes together, but still it saves a single point of failure for a brake light.

I got the head on today with a freshly annealed 80 thou copper gasket as it had been skimmed when repaired last. The place that did it told me I'd need a 80 thou one & measuring things up it looked right for crush. It's all fitted now anyway & seems happy, the proof will be when it runs.

Somehow I've never noticed before I've got two different rocker boxes, the rockers are the same part numbers but it seems the adjusters in one are metric (the nut takes a 13mm spanner) and imperial in the other (7/16th spanner). Would I be right in guessing one might be a later Harris part? Annoyingly as I fitted the first one a thread stripped where the bolt comes up from underneath above the port. What's more annoying is the matching thread on the other side of the box got helicoiled when I had them cleaned by the place that did the head, so the thread must have looked fine & have just been waiting for the most annoying time to pull out. It wasn't even tight when it went, I was pulling the spanner with a single finger just to nip it up. I had no intention of doing them up mega tight as they'd have probably needed to come off for retorquing the head (I never have any luck getting the allen key in the rockerbox bolt hole).

Now I'll need to get a helicoil kit for that & I've lost two of the long thin bolts that hold the edges of the box to the head, no idea how as everything came off & went in a bag together. Just a skill I guess.

I guess you can sum up progress as steady with annoying set backs.

Rocker boxes after I built them up & before I stripped the thread in one.

How she's sitting now, it's beginning to feel like I've got a bike in the kitchen that needs finishing rather than several piles of bits to put together.

I will be fitting a front mudguard, I just need to order a shorty. The old build from when I got the bike had at horrible hand cut plastic one that wasn't even a decent shape so that won't be going back on.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

two different rocker boxes, the rockers are the same part numbers but it seems the adjusters in one are metric (the nut takes a 13mm spanner) and imperial in the other (7/16th spanner). Would I be right in guessing one might be a later Harris part?

Uh-uh, Harris used the same parts as the last Co-op ones (Bloor was quite prescriptive about what Harris could and couldn't change - e.g. couldn't use the late Nikasil-plated cylinder); what you're thinking is "metric" is actually Cycle - 26 tpi rather than 1 mm. pitch, which is 25.4 tpi ...

Nevertheless, afaik "the nut takes a 13mm spanner" is wrong, you should check the rocker adjuster threads more closely:-

. iirc, Triumph didn't use UNF-thread adjusters 'til part-way through '73, when they increased the 750 twins' bore from early '73 75 mm. to the more-common 76 mm. - then the rocker adjusters became 5/16"UNF, which is 24 tpi (threads/turns per inch);

. before that, while rocker adjusters are still 5/16" thread OD, they're BSC - British Standard Cycle - which is 26 tpi (M8 Fine is 1 mm. pitch, so 25.4 tpi);

. common 5/16" British Standard hex. is 0.525" AF (that's why a 13 mm. AF spanner fits);

. however, specifically rocker adjuster locknuts are a 'small hex.' - 7/16" AF when they're UNF ... and 0.445" AF when they're Cycle ... which is why some 7/16" AF spanners fit Cycle rocker adjuster locknuts ...

Sooo ...

. the adjusters that you think a "7/16th" spanner fits, you should check the adjusters tpi, they might be Cycle and with the correct small-hex. locknuts;

. replace the nuts that "take a 13mm spanner" with the correct 5/16"Cycle small-hex. locknuts.

rocker boxes
as I fitted the first one a thread stripped where the bolt comes up from underneath above the port.

Errrm ... notice the other rocker-box has studs ... if you look in the parts book, studs are standard ... The studs have UNC thread into the ally rocker-box because ally is relatively soft, and wears quickly if fasteners are tightened/loosened regularly. Otoh, the other ends of the studs are UNF, on which steel nuts run, bearing on plain steel washers against the head.

head
skimmed when repaired last.

Mmmm ... this is common practice but can be bad if the head was bent, which turns out to be relatively easy to do if the pushrod tube seals aren't set up correctly. The correct practice is to bend the head straight again - skimming might flatten the cylinder gasket face but a) doesn't flatten the rocker-box gasket face; b) causes you more problems setting up the pushrod tube seals ... 😖

front mudguard
shorty.

The brace between the sliders shown in the parts book is pretty good at keeping the sliders moving up and down together, fwiw I advise against missing it out.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Hooli744]

Cheers for those bits. I didn't check the threads, just what spanner fitted on the nuts. Which was when I noticed the larger nuts were also thicker.

I'm sending the rocker box back to the place that did my head to fix the thread. They'll supply the studs etc too. I was going to fix it myself but Seager Engineering who did the work saw my post & told me they'd do the thread for free, so it was rude not to accept their offer. I'm also getting mushroom headed adjusters and locking nuts for all four rockers off them, which solves the 'odd nuts' question.

The reason the head was skimmed was due to this bike eating a piston years ago & damaging the edge of the combustion chamber, it had to be ground back, welded up, milled & skimmed to fix. But as I said they told me how much they'd taken off so an oversize gasket would fit & it has. They've been doing this stuff for years & have a great reputation so I trusted them to get it right, which they did.

Here's a pic of the head before I sent it off, I'd tided it up with a dremel & hand file years ago before running it as was. So you can see it needed a lot of work. Plus of course the damaged exhaust ports, worn guides, valve stems, broken fin etc etc

I don't seem to have an underside pic of it as returned, which is annoying as I thought I'd taken one. I'm not taking the head back off just for that though.

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

Seager Engineering who did the work saw my post & told me they'd do the thread for free, so it was rude not to accept their offer.
reason the head was skimmed was due to this bike eating a piston years ago & damaging the edge of the combustion chamber, it had to be ground back, welded up, milled & skimmed to fix.
They've been doing this stuff for years & have a great reputation so I trusted them to get it right, which they did.

Put in a link for them? It's always good to know first-hand experience of suppliers, especially positive.

Regards,

 

[GrandPaulZ]

Kudos to Seager Eng.