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Regarding flag terminals, do you have a suggestion/seller that sells the flags you recommend? I simply cannot find the kind I think we have in mind for sale anywhere. I'd like to get some.
Hi Don,

For what it’s worth the tool I bought when I re-wired my bike (MP71 at Stuart’s suggestion) has crimped every type of terminal I used very well indeed, even the tiny little nubs at the end of wires in bulb housings. It won’t deal with OEM bullets but I didn’t use those so didn’t need to buy the OEM crimping tool as well. It’s able to crimp the insulation with an ‘M’ crimp because the tool is used alongside the flag terminal. The jaws can’t get to the conductor crimp in the same way so the instructions say to use 26-28 which is the flat section at the end of the jaws. The end result is very good and secure, I can’t pull the wire out.

Chris
Terminal.JPG Terminal and tool.JPG Crimp tool.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #243
Hi Don, Vince,

This is confusing.

The "new harness installed 4k miles ago" isn't specified but, if it isn't British-made (Autosparks or L.P. Williams's maker), ime foreign makers seem to have access to some odd wire sizes. :(

Otoh, here in GB, I have easy access to:-

. 9-strand metric wire; rated for 5.75 Amps, so perfectly acceptable even for a standard 60W quartz-halogen headlamp main beam (the relationship is Watts = Amps x Volts). I've used it since the first rewire I ever did, no problems; only downside is not all the standard Lucas colour combos. are available. BW sells some and the bullets to fit.

. 16-strand 'thinwall' (insulation) has individual strands only 0.2 mm. OD and a total conductor cross-sectional area of 0.5 sq.mm.; because of the insulation, it's rated for 11 Amps; downside is conductor is too thin for almost all available bullets (any available from BW).

"Britishwiring.com ... don't seem to offer 16 AWG or equivalent" because BW are supplied by Autosparks in GB, so BW wire is metric:-

. 14-strand metric has a 1 sq.mm. conductor cross-section (so is actually closer to 17AWG?), it's rated for 8.75A so more than adequate for pretty-much everything standard on a Britbike, except the wires to/from the battery, rectifier, Zener and ignition switch.

. The next-bigger standard metric size is 28 of the same-size individual strands, so 2 sq.mm. conductor cross-section, so is closest to 14AWG.


Uh-uh, the table in the manual is badly-labelled, you're extrapolating from it incorrectly.

The only wire used in any '71-on harness was designated by Lucas as "14/32" - 14 strands, each strand 32SWG. The table in the Triumph manual only goes down to 30SWG, I use Standard wire gauge - Wikipedia

Because a 32SWG strand is a smaller (0.274 mm.) diameter than a metric 0.3 mm.-diameter strand, by definition, 14 32SWG strands must have a smaller total cross-sectional area than 14 0.3 mm-dia. strands.

If you crimp a modern (e.g. British Wiring) "14 strand" bullet on to an original Lucas wire, it pulls off too easily, because the crimped metric bullet often cannot make a tight-enough interference-fit on the smaller Imperial conductor. :(

To confirm the comparative difference of the cross-section areas, same insulation, 14/32 is rated for 7.5A but 14/0.30 is rated for 8.75A.


It's a British bike. Originally made absolute sense to Lucas because the company knew the thickness of each strand; that information is now widely-known.


The one BW sells is only $75. Autosparks in GB sells the same one, or a cheaper one for ~$40, although p&p and possible US import duty could bump that above $75.


A wider selection of ime good crimping tools are available much cheaper in GB from Autosparks and VWP . There are two types of "flag" terminals, buy the ones that can be crimped with the same tool as other spade terminals?


(y)


:confused: Same spade crimp tool does terminals for much thicker wire than you'll ever fit on a Britbike.

I only use spades for "28 strand" wire (2 sq.mm. conductor cross-section). 'Conductor' part of the crimp only takes just over 1/4" conductor length; when fitting a thinner wire, I strip off just over 1/2" of insulation from the wire end, twist the strands together and fold that in half = just over 1/4". (y) When crimping the "roll 2 tabs into conductor", I "roll" the ends between the two parts of the folded conductor ... the wire'll break before the terminal pulls off. :)

Btw, bullet terminals, never twist the conductor stands together before fitting in the bullet, dunno why but the twisted strands end up too thick to fit into the bullet. :( Also, for obvious reasons. don't cut any strands when stripping the wire ...


(n) I never use 'em. They're the same OD as the more-common bullets but the uncrimped wire can pull out. No-one needs the potential problems of a loose 'ground' wire with lots of exposed conductor flapping about loose inside the headlamp shell?


BW calls 'em "Eyelets".


You can do that but it's a faff, more so later if you need access to the wires. (n) :(

When doing the rewiring, turn the forks left and/or right before cutting a wire to length, so the finished wiring won't be stretched when the forks are turned that way.

Also before cutting a long wire apparently to correct length, I make a small loop around a finger, pencil etc. and then pass one of the securing cable-ties through it. A few weeks or months after the bike's back in use, I check the loops ... I've ceased to be surprised how many are much tighter ... if one isn't, much easier to cut a slightly too-long wire and crimp on a new terminal, than have to replace a too-short and stretched wire ...

When the wiring's finished, I cover the wiring between the headlamp shell and the frame with lengths of what Autosparks calls "Split Conduit" and VWP calls "Slit Convoluted Tubing". Same stuff but regrettably BW doesn't sell it; if you aren't buying anything else from either British seller, try the terms in eBay and/or your preferred internet search engine, it's common stuff. The "Split"/"Slit" is lengthways along the tube so it just slips over the finished wiring, the "Split"/"Slit" closes by 'memory' but the tube can simply be pulled off again if you need access to the wires.

Either cut the centres out of the standard headlamp and OIF frame grommets, or I replace 'em with Lucas Rubber Grommet : Hole Size 1 1/2" : Bore Size 1 1/4" - the latter are standard Lucas grommets so should be available in the US. I make the lengths of tubing over the wires long enough so the ends can be poked through the grommets to keep the tubing in position. (y)

Might not be "factory" but it works a damn' sight better and longer. (y)


BW/Autosparks harness isn't taped so tightly?

Hth.

Regards,
Stuart,

why don’t wire harness manufacturers use a solid wire rather than strands? I wonder if using strands, with inherently greater surface area, have something to do with current flow or contact area or ? Or perhaps it’s just cost?

Vince
 

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Hi Vince, Mike,
why don’t wire harness manufacturers use a solid wire rather than strands?
.
Curiously, this is totally opposite to the reasons I know why vehicles use stranded wire - it's flexible and can absorb vibration almost indefinitely.

In the mid-1970's, T160's were fitted with 37-strand electric-starter cables, each strand either 15SWG or 13SWG (1.8 mm. or 2.3 mm. diameter). When I rewired mine in the early 1980's, the equivalent was (still is) 126/0.40 and 196/0.40.

One of the reasons crimped rather than soldered terminals are preferred is it takes much practice and skill to make soldered connections where the solder has not run down the conductor inside the insulation; if it does, it effectively becomes a solid conductor, which is affected by vibration long before a stranded wire.

Cost is also a factor. Vehicles require wire in different thicknesses, depending how much power a given wire is expected to carry. I've mentioned 9-, 14- and 28-strand, all 0.3 mm. stands, respectively 0.65, 1 and 2 sq.mm; however, it goes up to 120/0.30, 8.5 sq.mm. So a strand maker can make millions(?) of miles of 0.3 mm.-diameter; otoh, solid wire, all the different cross-sections would have to be drawn separately, in smaller quantities.

Afaik, you'll never find a vehicle with wires with a single solid conductor ... unless it's been 'rewired' with domestic wire ... certainly the last time I rewired a house was the last time I was supplied with new wire with solid conductors.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi All, Stuart, Those are not the flags I was thinking of. The ones I was thinking of both the wire & insulation crimps are on the flag staff so to speak so think a straight terminal crimp section rather similar to the 3/8 headlamp socket flag terminals, but 1/4". The ones you showed & Chris used are easy to find here. Thanks for looking for me.
Chris, thanks for the photos, very helpful.

I ordered a bunch of color coded wire, terminals etc. from Britishwiring.com. I'll do some test crimps with various terminals & I'll decide what I'll do. I may also put a tad of solder on the crimp as a back up if I don't feel really secure with the crimp. I'll keep solder out of the strands beyond the connector crimp. This harness must be perfect.

Not much cheaper to make myself. Taped harness is $165 US. Also new harness only includes a few snap connectors... At 75 cents US apiece things start adding up. Also doesn't include points wire harness or tail lamp harness. The bike has some modifications to charging & EI, front brake light switch will be moved to banjo on master cyl., so I want to make harness specifically to suit this machine.

Thanks again, Don
 

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Hi Don,
not the flags I was thinking of. The ones I was thinking of both the wire & insulation crimps are on the flag staff so to speak so think a straight terminal crimp section rather similar to the 3/8 headlamp socket flag terminals, but 1/4".
Nothing like that here, 3/8"-wide (which aren't headlamp socket terminals) and 5/16"-wide (which are headlamp socket terminals) are all like the 1/4" I linked.

"both the wire & insulation crimps ... on the flag staff" would also require a different insulator to that available here (I have two different types).

ordered a bunch of color coded wire, terminals etc.
may also put a tad of solder on the crimp as a back up
I advise against.

The whole point of a crimp is the conductor remains as flexible as possible. Soldering risks solidifying the conductor, more-readily cracked later by vibration.

I've advised how to crimp spades using 28-strand terminals and thinner (14- or 9-strand) wire; done as advised, it's simply impossible for that not to be "secure". As I've posted before, most of the crimps on my first rewire are now approaching forty years old (the ones that aren't are upgrades), no problems.

ordered a bunch of color coded wire, terminals etc. from Britishwiring
Not much cheaper to make myself.
Regrettably because BW is supplied from GB. :( While it's rather mean to BW, I've advised before that Americans tot up a big order from the British retailers - e.g. single snap connectors here are currently the equivalent of about 25 cents - although I appreciate you have to factor in carriage.

Taped harness is $165 US.
bike has some modifications to charging & EI, front brake light switch will be moved to banjo on master cyl.,
So you would need some wires and terminals anyway, plus the crimping tools. Ime, DIY first harness is always about the same price as an off-the-shelf one. But, unless the bike is absolutely bog-standard electrically and the owner's happy to keep the 1970's shortcuts and oddities, any off-the-shelf harness is going to need modifying. :(

Advantages of DIY are you get to fix all the 1970's crappy bits and, when you've finished, you still have the tools, some terminals and wires for small jobs on other bikes (y) (that are otherwise usually bodged one way or another).

This harness must be perfect.
want to make harness specifically to suit this machine.
Make the Brown/Blue wire and main Red wire from 28-strand (I use thinwall but BW doesn't sell either wire in that :().

Run the main Red wire from one of these inside the headlamp shell to another somewhere under the seat with a smaller snap connector somewhere above the engine. Connect all individual component 'ground' wires to these snap connectors, including battery +ve with 28-strand Red wire, the main (15A blade) fuse/holder in this wire.

That uses far less Red wire than the 'original Lucas' implementation - copied by all off-the-shelf harness makers :( - but is far more reliable short- and long-term.

bike has some modifications to charging
Reg./rec. instead of separate rectifier 'n' Zener? If yes, connect the reg./rec. DC wires directly to the corresponding battery terminals and put another blade fuse/holder in one of these wires - 15A fuse if the bike has a RM21 or low-output RM24 stator, 20A if it has a RM23 or high-output RM24.

I advise a 5A or 7.5A blade fuse/holder in the EI -ve (supply) wire (White wire if it's Boyer-Bransden, Pazon, Wassell/Vape, Sparx). Connect the "Box" +ve (return) wire (Red wire if it's any of the above) directly to the battery +ve terminal, not to the end of the coils array. Connect the coils array return wire either separately directly to the battery +ve terminal or into a main Red wire snap connector.

With respect, don't over-think piffling details like "put a tad of solder on the crimp as a back up". If it helps, use BritBike's Advanced Search to find the earliest rewiring advice I posted that's still available (regrettably, Morgan has archived older posts a few times in the past :(); I don't believe you'll find much (anything?) different, nor will you find "load of crap" posts from others who've followed my advice?

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #250
740921

have a smaller scissor jack from a small fiat I used to own. Worked well just behind the center stand. Once I had the rear tire a couple inches off the floor, 5th gear was located and spark plugs removed.

740922


TDC tool locating TDC on right cylinder. Rather than remove the tappet/valve cover, I followed the Lunmad method of watching the intake valve as rear wheel is rotated forward. With just a little pressure on the TDC tool, it dropped into a notch just as the cylinder reached the top of its travel (observed through spark plug hole). No TDC mark Observed on the alternator disc (seen through the inspection hole on the primary case).

moving the rear wheel backward, the TDC tool locates 38 degree btdc. The inspection hole reveals this

740923

The ‘pointer’ on the primary case seems to line up just before (about 1.5 mm) the indented line. This was the right cylinder.

740924

this was 38btdc left cylinder. Both line up just before the indentation line about 1.5 mm (maybe 1/16th inch?).

checking points timing:
740925

this was for right cylinder. Had to move the backplate a bit to get the correct point (on the left) to open just a bit.

but when I tried this for the left cylinder, I couldn’t move the smaller plate enough to make the point (on the right) to open a bit. Mostly this was due to really worn screws. Fortunately I have replacements.

so I removed the AAU and backplate with the intention of replacing the screws.
740926


740927

I used a screw-tool Don recommended in a different thread. Worked fine. For some reason, I expected the cam would be a separate piece from the AAU, not an integrated part of it.
The springs work fine, it’s smaller than I expected too.
740928

glad I took it all apart and worked on setting up/finding TDC. I can now see how the cam is twisted by centrifugal forces as the springs respond to rpm changes. This has been a learning experience today.
Vince
 

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Hi Vince, Good going!! Doesn't the real tool to pull AAU work great! Indeed worth the small cost.

To be perfectly clear you have the TDC tool in 38 slot(notch) in flywheel. This is what you see in timing window?
If that is correct you need to remark the rotor. What you are seeing is about 2deg ish advanced or 40b.

Due to production tolerances in rotor, primary cover, pointer I've seen this error many times. I've found the TDC tool in the 38b slot or TDC to be quite accurate so the TDC tool hole in case & slots in flywheel Triumph somehow got right.

So tool in 38b slot you see the line where it shows in photo, you should make a new mark where pointer is. A dot with a sharp center punch or scratch mark from a sharp pick or the like. I find paint is not that durable.

So when you go to actually strobe time if you put pointer on the factory hash mark you've effectively set timing to 36B. That is desirable for California fuel. So really you don't need to make a new mark, just know factory mark is about 36, not 38. Does this make sense at all?

Good you now understand the AAU!! In the workshop, the master will have apprentice remove AAU & talk about how it works, take it apart to understand all that. Sometimes takes a few lessons for it to sink in. In that environment learning/understanding is a 100 times easier. Online it's very difficult. You are doing well.

Looking at your AAU you notice the slot in the taper that indexes into peg in camshaft. Now look at hash mark on the AAU cam. Make a sketch of this relationship. The AAU cam can be put on backwards. It fits perfectly either way. However it has a correct way. When you take AAU apart which I want you to do, put witness marks on all parts so they go in the exact same place as they were. Take detailed photos of everything including how springs hook on.

Turn the AAU cam & feel how it springs back. When new they were weak. The drag of the points rubbing blocks assist in the return though. However Triumph suggested stronger springs to reduce pinging etc. Your AAU should already have those stronger springs. You can find them on the web, or parts places, but most often they indeed are not stronger & often worse.

You already put witness marks on all parts. So to remove cam simply unhook end of springs from the skinny arm of AAU. Now it will pull off the shaft. Sometimes the shaft has hardened grease which can make it stick, but only the springs on holding it at this time.



Take one loop of the spring. I usually use the outside loop that hooks over the skinny bent metal tab of the base plate. Snip off about 1/16" of the tip where it points towards the coils. Then with needle nose pliers, or better a real spring bending pliers, anyway shorten the loop by about half. The makes a decided difference in return of AAU & helps stabilize idle to a degree as well. I always do this.

Looking at your fly weights the peg will wear a flat spot or even a dip in the groove. Take a small file or metal ruler etc. & place a strip of emery paper, about 120-150 or so under the file. Use some oil & sand the flat spot or groove to what it might have looked like new. A gentle curve. Don't get carried away, just give the flat or dip area a smooth passage over the peg. This reduced a little lag in the advance curve. You can see mine in photo. Just smooth that out. Do this on both weights if/as needed. The peg will wear a flat spot also as you can see. Just take the sharp edge off. Very little work will be needed on peg.

To assemble put thin smear of grease on spindle, very thin coat on slots of weights all where peg rides, the pivot pins. Place springs on weights, install all parts on & line up pegs & rehook springs. Takes a little practice. No big deal.

When installing AAU back into cam, be very careful to engage the slot in taper to the peg. Feel it. Wiggle around & find the centering effect of the taper. Play around until you get the feel of this. You can just stick it in & tighten bolt but it often will not be truly centered in taper. All this stuff matters!! When it feels lined up onto peg & centered, keep holding it steady like that & install bolt & tighten it to final tightening. Tightening like this will lock the taper so it won't fall loose if you remove bolt for static timing.

Moving to the points plate. Not too many ways to assemble things backwards here, but again I'd mark the parts just to make it simpler. Take the points off. Take the sub plates off. Now you'll see how the eccentric cams just set into place. Simple! Again very thin smear of grease on all surfaces of eccentrics so the will rotate freely. Small smear of grease on all screw threads. Trust me on this. Very thin smear of grease on back of sub plates & points plates. This allows these parts to adjust smoothly & easily without damage to anything. It will not make screws fall out from vibration later. Again clean the points contact faces well.

Back off the holding screws for the felt wicks. Rotate the eccentric screws. Observe how they move sub plates in arc. Cool huh! Notice how the grease allows precise loosening/tighening of screws so you can get tension just right to move sub plates without screws being so loose plate wobbles or won't hold new position until you tighten screws.

Memorize & make sketch of which way you turn eccentrics moves plate which way. Notice the eccentrics can go over center & move plate. Doesn't really matter the orientation you start with. Play around with them until you understand how the work. Then make your sketch.

Notice how the felt holders reach to both sub plates & cover them both. Sometimes you may need to back off the other side screws just a little & the side you are adjusting more to get sub plate to slide properly. NEVER force the plate with eccentric screw. It will bugger up screw slot or break the eccentric. Back off the screws on the felts more as needed, both sides as needed. DON'T damage you new screws. That is never needed or proper.

You found you lacked travel in sub plates. At least that's what I think you mean?? This is very common. Look at the direction you need to move sub plate farther. Now back off pillar bolts & rotate main back plate that direction. How much? Trial & error, but by about twice as much as you lack on the rotor hash mark & pointer. Then back up eccentric screw towards the mid point & try to time again. This is where time & experience is the only teacher. You'll get a feel for it with practice.

Moving sub plates can effect point gap, generally not very much though. Moving main (round) back plate can effect gap greatly. So after main back plate is moved, I always recheck/set point gap again.

fact of life is until you get practice & a feel for this it can/will take several hours. That's what I've observed working with others in person. This stuff is tedious & complicated. You'll find it pays off in good starting & running.

Don't forget to lube points & AAU cam with your new points grease. Finally reclean point faces one last time.

Get back to use on the TDC tool in 38b slot & where pointer & hash mark actually line up. I need to be clear on this so I don't mess up you strobe timing.

On as aside should you need or look for AAU parts you must verify they are actually for Triumph, clockwise rotation. BSA or Norton parts are a mirror image so everything works backwards as they rotate opposite to Triumph. I've even gotten burned on buying BSA AAU by mistake at swap meet. Too bad as it was in very good shape.

Notice on photos wear spot on weight that needs polishing off.
A new spring that's supposed to be better, but wasn't.
The springs are bent a little shorter. Doesn't take much.
See the wear on the peg(pin) not a big deal. Just round the sharp edges a little. Don't let
the weight throw you. I just stuck it there to hold cam steady for photo. It doesn't belong there.
The shaft (spindle) doesn't tend to wear badly. Lightly grease it with wheel bearing grease or the like. Notice the hooks bent out from back plate where the springs hook on. I unhook here to remove cam. Re hook here to assemble.
Don
 

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Hi Vince,
Looking at your first three photos, did you rotate the aau cam fully to the right to check the points opening. You did not indicate in your text that you held the cam fully advanced to check when the points opened, so it set me wondering if you had?
Regards
Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter #253
Hi Vince,
Looking at your first three photos, did you rotate the aau cam fully to the right to check the points opening. You did not indicate in your text that you held the cam fully advanced to check when the points opened, so it set me wondering if you had?
Regards
Peg.
Actually Peg, I don’t think I did :rolleyes: I do recall having just read that in the manual ... and promptly forgot it as I got busy with checking point gaps. I’ll be sure to hold cam fully advanced while checking gaps once everything is back together.
vince
 

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Discussion Starter #254
Hi Vince, Good going!! Doesn't the real tool to pull AAU work great! Indeed worth the small cost.

To be perfectly clear you have the TDC tool in 38 slot(notch) in flywheel. This is what you see in timing window?
If that is correct you need to remark the rotor. What you are seeing is about 2deg ish advanced or 40b.

Due to production tolerances in rotor, primary cover, pointer I've seen this error many times. I've found the TDC tool in the 38b slot or TDC to be quite accurate so the TDC tool hole in case & slots in flywheel Triumph somehow got right.

So tool in 38b slot you see the line where it shows in photo, you should make a new mark where pointer is. A dot with a sharp center punch or scratch mark from a sharp pick or the like. I find paint is not that durable.

So when you go to actually strobe time if you put pointer on the factory hash mark you've effectively set timing to 36B. That is desirable for California fuel. So really you don't need to make a new mark, just know factory mark is about 36, not 38. Does this make sense at all?

Good you now understand the AAU!! In the workshop, the master will have apprentice remove AAU & talk about how it works, take it apart to understand all that. Sometimes takes a few lessons for it to sink in. In that environment learning/understanding is a 100 times easier. Online it's very difficult. You are doing well.

Looking at your AAU you notice the slot in the taper that indexes into peg in camshaft. Now look at hash mark on the AAU cam. Make a sketch of this relationship. The AAU cam can be put on backwards. It fits perfectly either way. However it has a correct way. When you take AAU apart which I want you to do, put witness marks on all parts so they go in the exact same place as they were. Take detailed photos of everything including how springs hook on.

Turn the AAU cam & feel how it springs back. When new they were weak. The drag of the points rubbing blocks assist in the return though. However Triumph suggested stronger springs to reduce pinging etc. Your AAU should already have those stronger springs. You can find them on the web, or parts places, but most often they indeed are not stronger & often worse.

You already put witness marks on all parts. So to remove cam simply unhook end of springs from the skinny arm of AAU. Now it will pull off the shaft. Sometimes the shaft has hardened grease which can make it stick, but only the springs on holding it at this time.



Take one loop of the spring. I usually use the outside loop that hooks over the skinny bent metal tab of the base plate. Snip off about 1/16" of the tip where it points towards the coils. Then with needle nose pliers, or better a real spring bending pliers, anyway shorten the loop by about half. The makes a decided difference in return of AAU & helps stabilize idle to a degree as well. I always do this.

Looking at your fly weights the peg will wear a flat spot or even a dip in the groove. Take a small file or metal ruler etc. & place a strip of emery paper, about 120-150 or so under the file. Use some oil & sand the flat spot or groove to what it might have looked like new. A gentle curve. Don't get carried away, just give the flat or dip area a smooth passage over the peg. This reduced a little lag in the advance curve. You can see mine in photo. Just smooth that out. Do this on both weights if/as needed. The peg will wear a flat spot also as you can see. Just take the sharp edge off. Very little work will be needed on peg.

To assemble put thin smear of grease on spindle, very thin coat on slots of weights all where peg rides, the pivot pins. Place springs on weights, install all parts on & line up pegs & rehook springs. Takes a little practice. No big deal.

When installing AAU back into cam, be very careful to engage the slot in taper to the peg. Feel it. Wiggle around & find the centering effect of the taper. Play around until you get the feel of this. You can just stick it in & tighten bolt but it often will not be truly centered in taper. All this stuff matters!! When it feels lined up onto peg & centered, keep holding it steady like that & install bolt & tighten it to final tightening. Tightening like this will lock the taper so it won't fall loose if you remove bolt for static timing.

Moving to the points plate. Not too many ways to assemble things backwards here, but again I'd mark the parts just to make it simpler. Take the points off. Take the sub plates off. Now you'll see how the eccentric cams just set into place. Simple! Again very thin smear of grease on all surfaces of eccentrics so the will rotate freely. Small smear of grease on all screw threads. Trust me on this. Very thin smear of grease on back of sub plates & points plates. This allows these parts to adjust smoothly & easily without damage to anything. It will not make screws fall out from vibration later. Again clean the points contact faces well.

Back off the holding screws for the felt wicks. Rotate the eccentric screws. Observe how they move sub plates in arc. Cool huh! Notice how the grease allows precise loosening/tighening of screws so you can get tension just right to move sub plates without screws being so loose plate wobbles or won't hold new position until you tighten screws.

Memorize & make sketch of which way you turn eccentrics moves plate which way. Notice the eccentrics can go over center & move plate. Doesn't really matter the orientation you start with. Play around with them until you understand how the work. Then make your sketch.

Notice how the felt holders reach to both sub plates & cover them both. Sometimes you may need to back off the other side screws just a little & the side you are adjusting more to get sub plate to slide properly. NEVER force the plate with eccentric screw. It will bugger up screw slot or break the eccentric. Back off the screws on the felts more as needed, both sides as needed. DON'T damage you new screws. That is never needed or proper.

You found you lacked travel in sub plates. At least that's what I think you mean?? This is very common. Look at the direction you need to move sub plate farther. Now back off pillar bolts & rotate main back plate that direction. How much? Trial & error, but by about twice as much as you lack on the rotor hash mark & pointer. Then back up eccentric screw towards the mid point & try to time again. This is where time & experience is the only teacher. You'll get a feel for it with practice.

Moving sub plates can effect point gap, generally not very much though. Moving main (round) back plate can effect gap greatly. So after main back plate is moved, I always recheck/set point gap again.

fact of life is until you get practice & a feel for this it can/will take several hours. That's what I've observed working with others in person. This stuff is tedious & complicated. You'll find it pays off in good starting & running.

Don't forget to lube points & AAU cam with your new points grease. Finally reclean point faces one last time.

Get back to use on the TDC tool in 38b slot & where pointer & hash mark actually line up. I need to be clear on this so I don't mess up you strobe timing.

On as aside should you need or look for AAU parts you must verify they are actually for Triumph, clockwise rotation. BSA or Norton parts are a mirror image so everything works backwards as they rotate opposite to Triumph. I've even gotten burned on buying BSA AAU by mistake at swap meet. Too bad as it was in very good shape.

Notice on photos wear spot on weight that needs polishing off.
A new spring that's supposed to be better, but wasn't.
The springs are bent a little shorter. Doesn't take much.
See the wear on the peg(pin) not a big deal. Just round the sharp edges a little. Don't let
the weight throw you. I just stuck it there to hold cam steady for photo. It doesn't belong there.
The shaft (spindle) doesn't tend to wear badly. Lightly grease it with wheel bearing grease or the like. Notice the hooks bent out from back plate where the springs hook on. I unhook here to remove cam. Re hook here to assemble.
Don
Don, terrific explanations, thank you. Before I tear down the AAU I think I’ll get a couple pliers, one regular plier and a spring bender (don’t own a set of pliers... need them anyway). I’ll check local shops today and then internet if local guys don’t have them. And what kind of marking pen/paint do you use? Certainly I’ll need to make smallish marks, and visibility is paramount. White or yellow ink/paint I suppose. I’ve never used this sort of pen so don’t know what to look for.

I’m quite certain the TDC tool located the 38btdc slot n the crank. Several trials were completed until I was certain of exactly what I was feeling. So 36 degrees btdc instead of 38 degrees ... would this 2 degrees be retarded (if retarded means less than accepted value of 38?) You mention the pointer is closer to 40 and is advanced 2 degrees. How does this benefit our California gas?

Points plates I’ll focus on once the AAU is squared away. Unfortunately, as I get older I can’t focus on more than one thing at a time, it seems. Pictures and video of AAU work to follow as tools are secured.

vince
 

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Hi Vince, I use a Sharpie Industrial felt pin. Industrial is a little tougher ink. Regular Sharpie is ok too. For paint dots I have some left over tubes of touch up paint from our cars. They sell "paint pens" which are handy at hardware stores. I don't have any now though. Keep in mind ink & paint are removed by carb sprays & parts wash sprays. I'll make little scratch marks sometimes too. The fine point Sharpie is good to mark position of sub plate for seeing how much the plate moves.

Photo may be skewing marks... With your eyes, does pointer line up with hash mark or is hash mark to the rear of pointer? To be clear, I'm still not sure. The photo of pointer is with the TDC tool in 38b slot of flywheel?
If that is the case the amount of "error" I see in photo is about 2 deg. Or is the photo not showing me what you see? Does the pointer hit center of hash mark or not?

These are the exact spring bending pliers I bought. They are sturdy & work very well. I just used them again recently.

5-1/2" Concave & Round Nose Jewelry Making Metal Ring Wire Bend Form Pliers | eBay

Don
 

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Hi Vince, I always lock the AAU to full advance when setting static timing. I'll post some photos of how to do that tonight if I can.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #257
Hi Vince, I use a Sharpie Industrial felt pin. Industrial is a little tougher ink. Regular Sharpie is ok too. For paint dots I have some left over tubes of touch up paint from our cars. They sell "paint pens" which are handy at hardware stores. I don't have any now though. Keep in mind ink & paint are removed by carb sprays & parts wash sprays. I'll make little scratch marks sometimes too. The fine point Sharpie is good to mark position of sub plate for seeing how much the plate moves.

To be clear, I'm still not sure. The photo of pointer is with the TDC tool in 38b slot of flywheel?

These are the exact spring bending pliers I bought. They are sturdy & work very well. I just used them again recently.

5-1/2" Concave & Round Nose Jewelry Making Metal Ring Wire Bend Form Pliers | eBay

Don
Thanks Don and good morning.
Hobby lobby has similar pliers and are open tomorrow (closed Sundays). I'm sure they will have the Sharpies too. Lol, today I'll take it easy (wife is accusing me of spending more time with the bike lately), and proceed tomorrow to hobby lobby.

Here is a short AAU video, not taking it apart yet until I can properly 'witness mark' it. Oh, You'll have to excuse my dog who is is a loud eater and drinker, lol.

Vince
 

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I have come across too many timing covers where people have tried to re-align the POINTER (instead of re-marking the rotor) by tapping on it with any manner of tool, resulting in a cracked case and missing pointer.
 

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Actually Peg, I don’t think I did :rolleyes: I do recall having just read that in the manual ... and promptly forgot it as I got busy with checking point gaps. I’ll be sure to hold cam fully advanced while checking gaps once everything is back together.
vince
Hi Vince,
I’m gonna sound pedantic here, sorry about that but it is important, but full advance is needed when setting the ignition timing, not when setting the gap.
I’m going to butt out of this thread, Don is the master with points (actually he is the master with just about everything).
I wimped out years ago on points and fit electronic ignition instead.
Best of luck
Peg.
 

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Hi Vince,
I’m gonna sound pedantic here, sorry about that but it is important, but full advance is needed when setting the ignition timing, not when setting the gap.
I’m going to butt out of this thread, Don is the master with points (actually he is the master with just about everything).
I wimped out years ago on points and fit electronic ignition instead.
Best of luck
Peg.
Peg - thanks for pointing out that I'm confusing two separate operations, classic newbie mistake :oops:. I recall the manual instructs to watch for the point gap to barely open, or something like that, while turning the back plate. I'll keep at it. Time to do some more reading...

vince
 
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