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Discussion Starter #201
So.. after drinking some coffee and watching Lunmad time his older 650, I decided it wouldn't hurt anything if I checked the timing with the strobe, anyway.

I didn't take any pictures or video, (needed too many hands for that - and didn't want to set up stands, etc. like Lunmad does), but ...

The strobe on each cylinder lines up with the timing mark when revving the engine up to 2000 rpm or so (I'm guessing since there still isn't a tacho on my bike). I was pleasantly pleased. Should I be?

After playing with the strobe light and its fascinating 'moving picture' of timing marks, I decided to make minor adjustments to the carbs. First, I screwed in both air/idle screws (on the right) to seat, then backing them both out 2.5 turns (as instructed in the manual). Started the bike and pulled the spark plug wire from the left cylinder, intending to set idle a bit higher - to prevent dying at lights. Then I repeated the procedure with the left cylinder (I believe I read this in both the manual the Glenn's). When plugging both spark plug wires in, the idle went up quite a bit. I adjusted each carb's idle down using the slanted stop screw. And I took a ride.

The bike seemed to be missing a bit, so back home I repeated the carb settings from 'orgin', with idle screws back to 'seated' and then out 2.5 turns. Started the bike and adjusted the idle screws - counterclockwise toward lean - until the idle seemed stable. Then adjusted the stop screws until the screwheads were flush with the carb 'housing'. This gave me a point of origin to work from. I took another ride through a residential area and the bike didn't seem to be missing and idled OK at stoplights (I still 'blip' the throttle be felt a bit more confident that the bike wouldn't die on me).

LIkely, I did any number of things incorrectly, here. The good thing is I'm getting into the manual, part book, Glenn's book, and this forum and trying out things. Definitely learning.

Vince
 

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Discussion Starter #202
Hi Vince,
15 thousandths of an Inch is written 0.015.
The feeler gauge you need will be 0.015 and quite stiff, the one you don’t want will be floppy and thin.

If the gap is 0.0015 (1 1/2 thousandths of an inch) then you have saved yourself a breakdown, the heel on the cam will wear until the points no longer open. The adjustment is compensation for that wear.

The line on the cam indicates the highest point on the cam, this is the position you set the points gap as the points will be open the widest when the heel of the cam is next to the line.

Set one gap to 0.015, slackening the screw that hold the points on the backplate until the the points body just slides, you don’t want the points to be flopping about as you try to adjust them. When the gap is right tighten the screws, often the points open or close when tightening the screws, keep trying, be patient, eventually you will end up with 0.015" gap and tight screws.
Turn the engine until the heel on the other set of points lines up with the line on the cam, repeat the process and adjust the gap on the other set of points.

Adjusting the points gap will affect the ignition timing, so you will need to check and adjust this.
The ignition timing is done at full advance, so you will need to turn the cam by hand against it’s advance springs, then lock it there using a bolt and washer assembly.

Use a 12 lamp clipped between earth and the points spring (on one of the points springs) to determine when the points open electrically,(when the lamp comes on the points have opened). Ignition on, turn the engine slowly forward until the lamp just comes on.

Remove the timing inspection cover in the primary cover on the other side of the bike, check to see if the pointer is aligned with the 38 degree full advance park on the alternator rotor. If it is not aligned when the timing lamp just comes on, turn the engine to align the pointer and 38 degree timing mark. (You might need to go all the way around, check that the set of points that you are connected to is the one that is about to open)
The backplate for the points assembly is held by the two 5/16" hex bolts that hold the inspection cover plate in the timing cover. Slacken these a little so you can just move the whole backplate in it’s slot. Turn the whole plate until the lamp goes out and then move it back until it just comes on. Turn the engine until the lamp goes out and just comes back on again. Check the pointer and 38 degree timing mark align, if they do align lock up the 5/16" bolts on the points backplate. If they do not align keep adjusting until they do. Ignition off.

Turn the engine until the heel of the points is aligned with the line on the cam Check the points gap has not been changed by moving the backplate.

One set of points is now completed, move the lamp clip to the other set of points.
Ignition on, turn the engine until the lamp just comes on, check the 38 degree line and pointer align.
If they do not align, turn the engine until they do align. (You might need to go all the way around, check that the set of points that you are connected to is the one that is about to open).

The second set of points need to be adjusted on their own, (the main backplate remains locked),
Do not touch the screw that you used to adjust the points earlier. Slacken slightly the two screws that hold the small secondary plate on the the backplate, there is a small cam adjuster that moves this plate in relation to the main backplate. Move this un til the lamp just comes on, (if it is already on turn it back until it is out, then back until it just comes on.) tighten the screws.
Turn the engine until the lamp goes out and just comes on, check the 38 degree line and pointer line up, if they don’t repeat adjustment until they do.

Turn the engine until the heel of the points is aligned with the line on the cam Check the points gap has not been changed by moving the backplate.

When the second set of points is set, remove your lamp and remove the locking device on the advance camshaft.
Put one drop of oil on the felt lubricating pad.

This is your base static setup.

The engine should start and run fairly well.

Because the setup has so many mechanical adjustments it is good practice to check the timing dynamically, with a strobe lamp connected check the 38 degree line an pointer line up with the engine running at 3000 rpm.
You need to check both sides separately.
If they don’t align at 3000 rpm, adjust the backplate or sub backplate until they do for both cylinders.

Turn the engine until the heel of the points is aligned with the line on the cam Check the points gap has not been changed by moving the backplate.

Refit the cover plate and inspection cap.

Regards
Peg.
Peg,

Thank you for that. I didn't see your post until after I wrote my last.

Bike is hot now, so I'll wait until later today or tomorrow morning to give it another go. I swear the strobe timing was spot on... apparently, the points gap isn't crucial for that, just the backplate position.

Read the manual on static timing, it does start out with setting points gap at 0.0015". In the next section on dynamic timing, it indicates setting point gap at 0.015". Beats me. I suppose the PO set the initial static timing point gap and didn't reset it. Again, I'll reset it later today or tomorrow.

And, I'll try to remember to set up a stand of some sort to record what I'm doing...

Have a good night, Peg

Cheers
vince
 

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Hi Vince,
The 0.0015 (1 1/2 thou) is a misprint, Lucas ignition systems used 0.015 (15 thou) on all or their points ignitions

Unfortunately the points gap does affect the ignition timing, as the gap gets smaller the ignition timing retards.
If it is spot on at strobed at 0.0015 (1 1/2 thousandths of an inch) it will be too far advanced at the correct 0.015 (15 thousandths of an inch).
Over advanced ignition timing is dangerous for these detonation prone engine.

The points gap is important in it’s own right, the gap determines the % of time (rotation) that the ignition coils have to charge up.
If the coils are charging for too long they run hot, if they are charging for too short a time they do not build up enough charge for an effective spark.

Regards
Peg.
 
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Discussion Starter #204
Hi Vince,
The 0.0015 (1 1/2 thou) is a misprint, Lucas ignition systems used 0.015 (15 thou) on all or their points ignitions

Unfortunately the points gap does affect the ignition timing, as the gap gets smaller the ignition timing retards.
If it is spot on at strobed at 0.0015 (1 1/2 thousandths of an inch) it will be too far advanced at the correct 0.015 (15 thousandths of an inch).
Over advanced ignition timing is dangerous for these detonation prone engine.

The points gap is important in it’s own right, the gap determines the % of time (rotation) that the ignition coils have to charge up.
If the coils are charging for too long they run hot, if they are charging for too short a time they do not build up enough charge for an effective spark.

Regards
Peg.
Peg,

Thanks again (I seem to be saying that a lot), and you have again educated me to the importance of proper point gap. It’s rainy here (a rarity most of the year), and I’m off to fetch wife’s daily Starbucks Drink - with the money I spend there in a year, I could have paid for my Bonnie with extra money in the bank - she deserves the happiness It brings.

Guess I have more points and timing work to do.

regards

Vince
 

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Hi Vince, Just like on the valve adjustment, use a .014 & .016 feeler gauges Go/no go method. Points are even harder to feel .015 than the valves were to feel to their spec.

Point gap is somewhat forgiving. As long as you are within .002" of .015 it will work fine. The point adjustment can change a lot if you have to move back plate. You'll probably want to reset to .015 on both sets. The sub plates allow you to move point holder on the back plate to trim timing for each set of points separately. This is where you can just leave a gap between .013 to .017". However timing must be set correctly no matter what the gap is.

Changing points gap has a direct effect on timing. So the strobe check must always be the last step.

The key to good points operation is proper lube on rubbing block & cam. Lubricam SL-2 is one of the better points lubes. If you don't have any, get some. Not so easy to find. Ebay may be the source.

Clean points faces is very important. Alcohol, carb spray, or even gas can be used. Wet strip of copy paper, but not so wet that it runs onto points grease. Rub paper through points with them closed. Open with finger nail to insert paper.
Rub dry with dry strip. Clean until paper comes out clean.

As point faces wear they get a tit on one face, crater on the other. File flat with points fine or even folded very fine sand paper. Clean well so no abrasives wear rubbing block an cam.


Put a very thin smear of point cam lube on cam. Put a small blob on one side of rubbing block such rotation of cam pulls in the grease. My grease is green Mallory brand. No longer made. I now use Lubricam.

Good going on carbs. You're learning about adjusting idle mixture & idle rpm. It does take practice. The only way is by doing & very carefully observing the effects as you're doing. You can mark adjuster screw heads with paint do or marker pin so at a glance you know where you've been. I carry note book & record findings. Pretty soon if you do much changes it's easy to get lost as to where you were & are now. Remember the bike must be fully warmed to get
true adjustements. To warm motor it takes a good 15-20 miles. The note book will allow you to record then repeat adjustments. Find the best average adjustment for mixture & rpm.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Hi Vince, Just like on the valve adjustment, use a .014 & .016 feeler gauges Go/no go method. Points are even harder to feel .015 than the valves were to feel to their spec.

Point gap is somewhat forgiving. As long as you are within .002" of .015 it will work fine. The point adjustment can change a lot if you have to move back plate. You'll probably want to reset to .015 on both sets. The sub plates allow you to move point holder on the back plate to trim timing for each set of points separately. This is where you can just leave a gap between .013 to .017". However timing must be set correctly no matter what the gap is.

Changing points gap has a direct effect on timing. So the strobe check must always be the last step.

The key to good points operation is proper lube on rubbing block & cam. Lubricam SL-2 is one of the better points lubes. If you don't have any, get some. Not so easy to find. Ebay may be the source.

Clean points faces is very important. Alcohol, carb spray, or even gas can be used. Wet strip of copy paper, but not so wet that it runs onto points grease. Rub paper through points with them closed. Open with finger nail to insert paper.
Rub dry with dry strip. Clean until paper comes out clean.

As point faces wear they get a tit on one face, crater on the other. File flat with points fine or even folded very fine sand paper. Clean well so no abrasives wear rubbing block an cam.


Put a very thin smear of point cam lube on cam. Put a small blob on one side of rubbing block such rotation of cam pulls in the grease. My grease is green Mallory brand. No longer made. I now use Lubricam.

Good going on carbs. You're learning about adjusting idle mixture & idle rpm. It does take practice. The only way is by doing & very carefully observing the effects as you're doing. You can mark adjuster screw heads with paint do or marker pin so at a glance you know where you've been. I carry note book & record findings. Pretty soon if you do much changes it's easy to get lost as to where you were & are now. Remember the bike must be fully warmed to get
true adjustements. To warm motor it takes a good 15-20 miles. The note book will allow you to record then repeat adjustments. Find the best average adjustment for mixture & rpm.
Don
Thanks Don,

Late this afternoon, I dove in. After resetting point gap to 0.015”, and wow those are fiddley, I started it up (1st kick) and strobed the timing marks. Couldn’t even see the mark. I loosened the back plate pillar bolts and moved the plate clockwise. It got closer, but I didn’t really get there, yet. The back plate started rotated counterclockwise, nearly all the way to the right corner of the pillar bolt slot. I’ve moved the plate clockwise quite a bit but still just barely see the timing mark, about a half inch away from the pointer.

After some time, I decided to give the neighbors a break and resume tomorrow.

Oh - some of those points adjustment screws are terrible and all bunged up. Had to use a long handled thick bladed screwdriver just to loosen them.

lubicam sl2 - I’ll get some.

vince
 

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Discussion Starter #207
British Fasteners in New York have 4BA x 1/4' screws. Would those be a good replacement for the plate bracket screws? Baxter lists them as 4BA x 5/16", 82-1915, and Bonneville shop has them as well. However, 7 or 8 dollars for a screw... I have a problem with that. British Fasteners 4BA 1/4" is just a bit shorter than the 5/16"... I wonder will it work as a points plate bracket screw? Will the thread be long enough? Perhaps I'll just buy a few and give it a try.

The 'eccentric screw' is quite unique and apparently brass. Mine must be original and are going to be quite difficult to remove. Bonneville shop sells the in pairs. I can stomach the 9 dollars for these since they are so unusual.. I've yet to find them anywhere else.

vince
 

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Hi Vince,
The 'eccentric screw' is quite unique and apparently brass. Mine must be original and are going to be quite difficult to remove. Bonneville shop sells the in pairs. I can stomach the 9 dollars for these
British Fasteners in New York have 4BA x 1/4' screws. Would those be a good replacement for the plate bracket screws? Baxter lists them as 4BA x 5/16", 82-1915, and Bonneville shop has them as well. However, 7 or 8 dollars for a screw... I have a problem with that.
Look at the back of the plate, do the 5/16"UH screws protrude through by 1/16"? What happens when you loosen them?

What you're looking for is whether that extra 1/16" serves a useful purpose or not - would you lose 20% of the friction imparted by the longer thread; would the shorter screw fall out easier when it's loosened for adjustment?

If the answer's "yes" to either of those questions, suck up the extra cost, particularly from TBS because post & packing from anywhere else is going to cost you more.

7 or 8 dollars for a screw...
7 or 8 dollars for an obsolete screw thread that hasn't been used for anything else in decades.

"7 or 8 dollars" for these screws, "9 dollars" for the eccentric screws ... you're seeing some of the reasons so many owners have fitted an EI? ;)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi Vince, Peg,
The points gap is important in it’s own right, the gap determines the % of time (rotation) that the ignition coils have to charge up.
:) I really wouldn't worry about coil charge time on these old heaps.

Connected to points, a coil on a 4-stroke parallel twin gets (for the sake of comparison) 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation between sparks.

Connected to wasted-spark EI, a coil on a 4-stroke triple gets 240 degrees of crankshaft rotation between sparks ...

Connected to John Carpenter's test rig, I've watched three coils connected to Rita EI sparking away quite happily at 15,000 rpm plus ... ok, that was in the open air and might be less in a compressed fuel-air mixture, but you get the idea?

If the coils are charging for too long they run hot,
If these coils can charge up fast enough to spark reliably at 5-figure rpm, they're always "charging for too long", even on a Brit twin near the redline (where most of 'em spend little, if any, time anyway ...). Any manufacturer making coils to be switched by points expects 'em to "run hot" most of the time, and designs 'em to dissipate that heat so they don't run so hot they fail.

if they are charging for too short a time they do not build up enough charge for an effective spark.
Low LT Volts also increases the charge time. Certainly on Britbikes, the far-and-away more-common reason for a coil failing to charge up for an effective spark is low LT Volts when multiple coils with the wrong individual rated Voltage are connected in series to a wasted-spark EI - two '12V' coils on a twin, three '6V' coils on a triple.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #210
Hi Vince,

Look at the back of the plate, do the 5/16"UH screws protrude through by 1/16"? What happens when you loosen them?

What you're looking for is whether that extra 1/16" serves a useful purpose or not - would you lose 20% of the friction imparted by the longer thread; would the shorter screw fall out easier when it's loosened for adjustment?

If the answer's "yes" to either of those questions, suck up the extra cost, particularly from TBS because post & packing from anywhere else is going to cost you more.


7 or 8 dollars for an obsolete screw thread that hasn't been used for anything else in decades.

"7 or 8 dollars" for these screws, "9 dollars" for the eccentric screws ... you're seeing some of the reasons so many owners have fitted an EI? ;)

Hth.

Regards,
Thanks Stuart,

Of course, obsolete screw threads expect greater cost... guess I’m starting to feel slightly weary of the flow of parts to my garage and flow of money out. Certainly, cheaping out on relatively low cost parts subverts the greater purpose - restoring a 45 year old motorcycle into a reliable weekend ride. But, I must admit I’ve enjoyed the restoring and mechanical education as I stumble deeper into it.

Removing the cam requires service tool 61-7023, which I don’t have...checking the plate thickness (I think) requires pulling the cam and back plate. The concerns you raise are practical and reasonable... 1/16th extra may be necessary... unfortunately, British fasteners didn’t offer 5/16ths in 4ba thread. Perhaps if I call them Monday they can make it or get it.

I’d like to truly understand the timing relationship with mechanical points before considering EI.. I don’t have an opinion either way, just want to ‘know the machine’.

Vince
 

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Hi Vince,
Something is amis with your bikes ignition.
The setup is designed so that if you have the correct points gap, the ignition timing will fall within the range of adjustment.
Here are some things that I would check, in the order I would check them.
1) Double check the points gap, make sure that the faces are smooth. The gap should be about 1 1/2 times the thickness of your thumbnail.
2) If you are used to strobe timing a classic car, they are almost exclusively set up at tickover (retarded ignition) the Triumph is set at full advance, so you need take readings at 2500-3000 rpm, I am just checking that you are doing this, I expect you are- the difference between retarded and fully advanced is 24 crankshaft degrees.- at the outer edge of the alternator that will be 15mm.
3) As you rev the engine from tickover to 3000 rpm with the strobe attached you should see the spark advance and drop back when you back off the throttle. The advance should stop advancing around 2000rpm. Your ignition system looks clean and dry after it’s storage, there is a small chance that the advance mechanism is siezed.
4) I believe the timing is over advanced, this would be in keeping with opening the points gap, and with your rotating the points backplate to the right (clockwise) to retard the ignition.
5) The cam and advance assembly should be located in the correct position by a notch in the cam/advance assembly and a pin in the camshaft. Sometimes the cam is changed for one without a pin, or the pin comes out. The cam assembly can be taper locked into the cam in the wrong position if the locating pin is missing.
I think I would in the first instance turn the engine to the position in Don’s photo and see if the relationship of the parts is the same.
You can remove the ignition cam without special tools, but you will have to remove the points backplate, disturbing your existing setup and by now you have realised how much of a pita it is to reset it.

As for fitting electronic ignition, I gave up with all of this mucking about years ago. I always fit E.I.

Once set correctly your bike should run nicely for at least 2000 miles. So you will have plenty of time to decide if you want to replace the points ignition system, or go through the setup process again.

Regards
Peg.
 

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Hi Vince,
checking the plate thickness (I think) requires pulling the cam and back plate.
Removing the cam requires service tool 61-7023,
Not really ... if the bolt head in the centre of the cam now is 7/16" AF, its thread is 1/4"-28.

If so, unscrew that bolt and screw in a long 5/16"-24 bolt (that's the extractor thread); if the bolt's a socket cap screw, so much the better (for what follows); screw the 5/16" bolt in gently 'til it won't go in any further.

Strike the protruding bolt with the heel of one hand (hence it's better if it's a socket cap screw :)) once or twice in two opposite directions. This might loosen the cam but, if not, try again to screw in the bolt, it might go in a part of a turn. Repeat the last two sentences.

You shouldn't have to repeat those two sentences too often before the cam comes loose, it has a male taper that fits in a corresponding female taper in the exhaust camshaft, the 1/4"-28 bolt is simply a way of keeping the tapers together without much force being required from the bolt. (y)

Otoh, the 61-7023 extractor does have to exert a lot of force on the points cam threads to break the tapers apart, one reason I'm not a fan and haven't ever owned or used one. I was shown the bolt method decades ago and have always used it to 'break' any taper.

Having removed the points cam, before loosening the points plate pillar bolts, mark from the points plate to a point on the timing cover/points compartment inner wall - use these marks when refitting the points plate so it goes back in the same position.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi vstevens, I don't know what threads the screws are for the points or sub plates. That I'd need to verify. If you get longer screws you can always shorten them. The screws that hold the felt wick bracket cannot be shorter. They are just barely long enough. I don't have time to take the spare apart today. A while back there was a kit sold with eccentrics & all the screws.

I don't have my bike apart. But looking at my spare points plate & AAU it looks like you have about 1/8" clearance from AAU to back side of plate. So screw length is important.

The brass eccentric adjuster is special part & must be purchased from part sellers. The brass ones from Bonneville shop are good, get them.

Mark all your parts first so you get it together the same way. Just makes life simpler.

Very easy to install. They are captured between the sub plate & round back plate. (Earlier versions were riveted, but not yours). Simply remove points, the sub plates & they slip in. Lightly grease them to hold them in & allows easier adjustment as well. Lightly grease back side of sub plate & points plate to allow easier adjustment as well. I mean a thin smear you can hardly see on these. Grease screw threads also. Allows for smoother more precise adjustments. Trust me on this you'll see.

The original eccentrics were zinc & very fragile. The brass are much more durable.

After you get it all apart you'll understand what's happening. The sub plates are pressed such they have 2 protrusions on back side that engage slots on back plate. These guide plate in an arc. The eccentric moves the plates. After assembly with grease, practice how much to back off screws to allow plates to just move barely freely, yet without play. The grease really helps this fine adjustment. What buggers up the eccentrics is too much tension on screws, yet if you back off too much adjustment won't hold still until you final tighten screws. A fine line that takes practice to get the feel of it. Fiddle around turning the eccentrics until you understand how they move plate & which way to move eccentric to move plate the way you want. Make a cheat sheet so when you set timing for real you'll not have to think about which way is which.

After I have a the entire assembly apart I set timing statically. However you don't have to if bike will still start. Here's is what the factory procedure is.

Move the eccentric screw until the sub plates are centered on their adjustments. Lock screws. Mark position with witness marks with marking pen. This can be done on bench or on bike. Next install onto bike if not installed. Center slot of back plate with top pillar bolt in rear hole. Again, top pillar in rear hole. Lock pillars. Install points & set gap both points. Pay attention to color, position of wires.

If I was doing it, I'd now lock AAU to full advance & set timing to 38b statically. I have much practice so only takes me a few minuets & results in easy starting & the timing will be within 2 degrees or less. Now you set timing on one set of points by moving back plate in slots. Notice back plate, not eccentric screws. Then set static timing on the other points using eccentric screw. This supposedly allows the job to go smoothly... Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Then I'd start motor & strobe time. You can just jump to strobe timing if you want.

On paper it should be perfect you shouldn't run out of adjustment..... On paper! Real life sometimes you run out of adjustment on eccentric screw. If that happens, you need to move back plate in its slots so it could be very offset in slot. Then go back & readjust eccentric screws. It is basically trial & error. With practice you'll get a feel for this. It can take hours to get all where you want it. I've had to do this many times even with my experience. I still don't know why some bikes fight me on this. It's like something wasn't machined to spec. Cam timing can have an effect I know that. Anyway just keep at it until you get the timing 38b with some wiggle room at the end of eccentric travel.

One thing that will get you is water on points. They can take a little grease or oil & still work, but water is spark killer. Water from wet streets from sprinklers even can follow points wire into points cavity & kill motor. This so common that it gave Brit bikes a very bad rap. Won't start in fog or rain. I don't get why owners don't just buy a real wire grommet & be done with it. 70-4707. Not so easy to come by, many don't sell them. I just bought some from this place. They look good. push it in from right side before you install points plate. I lube with dielectric grease so the wire will slide, yet not leak.


Don
 

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... guess I’m starting to feel slightly weary of the flow of parts to my garage and flow of money out.

Vince
It about time.... I have been trying to tell not to throw money at your scoot. I'm not real impressed with some of your suppliers. Baxter has 82-1915 for $2.00 ea be cheap and shop around . Be aware the eccentric screws on you points plate may not be replaceable as you have the late model point plate .

K 😷
 

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Hi, Don't forget about shipping/handling on parts... I always go by total with shipping & tax. Sometimes I may overpay, but not often. Baxter's shipping is $8.50 + 1.25 for part, no tax, = $9.75 However they have $10.00 minimum. That's why I ended up buying eBay on this sealing bushing. Since Rabers closed down I'm forced to do mail order like most have to.

Vince, Don't loose the faith just yet. You've come too far to fail now. You're most of the way there. It takes a fair amount of money to sort an old Triumph. It is a huge amount of work. Easy 200-300 hours if you are skilled & practiced. That is if you already have a lot of tools. Any refurb on any vehicle is similar. A fact of liv

A well sorted perfect Triumph very seldom hits the open market. They are sold word of mouth & go for big $$ for the most part. Well sorted Triumphs are not very common. You see some of the best bikes here on this group.

It is my experience your eccentrics are not the riveted version. The only way to tell for sure is remove a set of points & sub plate. If removeable, eccentric will just pull right out.
Again keep at it, you will be successful in the end. Trust me!

Your bike is not a worthless piece of junk. You have a lot of good bike to work with here. It just needs proper sorting. A process to be sure.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #216
Hi, Don't forget about shipping/handling on parts... I always go by total with shipping & tax. Sometimes I may overpay, but not often. Baxter's shipping is $8.50 + 1.25 for part, no tax, = $9.75 However they have $10.00 minimum. That's why I ended up buying eBay on this sealing bushing. Since Rabers closed down I'm forced to do mail order like most have to.

Vince, Don't loose the faith just yet. You've come too far to fail now. You're most of the way there. It takes a fair amount of money to sort an old Triumph. It is a huge amount of work. Easy 200-300 hours if you are skilled & practiced. That is if you already have a lot of tools. Any refurb on any vehicle is similar. A fact of liv

A well sorted perfect Triumph very seldom hits the open market. They are sold word of mouth & go for big $$ for the most part. Well sorted Triumphs are not very common. You see some of the best bikes here on this group.

It is my experience your eccentrics are not the riveted version. The only way to tell for sure is remove a set of points & sub plate. If removeable, eccentric will just pull right out.
Again keep at it, you will be successful in the end. Trust me!

Your bike is not a worthless piece of junk. You have a lot of good bike to work with here. It just needs proper sorting. A process to be sure.
Don
Folks,
thank for the guidance and encouragement(y). Regarding the bushing, already ordered it a few days ago. (From ebay). Eccentric screws are ordered, and lubricam sl2 I picked up yesterday from O’reillys (an auto parts store). I’ve assembled quite a collection of grease, lubes, and sealers (copper Permatex, Blue permatex, Hylomar universal blue, diaelectric grease, black graphite grease for the grease gun, etc). It would be a shame not to use them all.

I’ll have time to really dig into this on the weekend, (I’ll have a week off next week). Already been studying static timing, and expect I’ll need to remove the backplate assembly so I can check the AAU and get familiar with how it’s supposed to operate... and see it it’s operating correctly.

Once it’s back together (this is the time I’ll insert the rubber bushing into the lead wire hole with dielectric grease), static timing will be set, and I’ll continue with strobe timing (now that I’ll have a better idea of the Interactions between the back plates, sub plates, cam followers, cam, and AAU.

barring any major faults (posted if found), it should go alright. And I know where to come if I run into trouble or get struck .

Stuart - once I get backplate assembly off, I may need some guidance on what to look for in AAU.

Kadutz - I have been listening. Education requires some investment... that’s how I move forward on this. fortunately? I’m not retired yet so have a bit to play with. This is the time for me to invest in this hobby while I still can.

Its coming together, and I haven’t quit. Maybe a tad frustrated... but it takes more than that to dissuade a stubborn Californian. Thank you, all, for your patience.

Cheers

vince
 

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Cannot help with the points / timing issue, but the price of 4BA screws piqued my interest. A look around the 'net suggests that model engineering suppliers would be worth a try, this place has them; 2BA Cheesehead,2BA Stainless,3BA Cheesehead,4BA Cheesehead,6Ba Cheesehead, 2BA Stainless Cheesehead, Steel Cheesehead screws for model engineers, for 20p each, I guess thats approx 20c in USD, although I am sure you wont want to pay for air mail for a few screws. Must be similar suppliers in the US.

the link should be ba-bolts.co.uk
 

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Hi Vince,
I’ll insert the rubber bushing into the lead wire hole with dielectric grease),
Aside, I'm curious why you would ...? :confused:

Original points wires on your bike (Black/White and Black/Yellow) were/are moulded into black plastic insulation.

Otoh, pattern points wires are (should be) the same individual colours but are loose in a length of black plastic sleeving.

Original points wires, I slide the rubber bushing over the black insulation lubricated with cheap spray-on furniture polish (btw which, besides being an excellent rubber lube, is brilliant at reclaiming old and stiff rubber mouldings - spray on liberally, knead moulding gently 'til soft again, wipe off excess polish. (y) Cheap spray-on furniture polish has silicone, which is good for synthetic rubbers).

Pattern points wires, the rubber bushing folds the plastic sleeving lengthways inside the bushing, leaving a path for water that the bushing will never seal. I measure the ID of the hole through the crankcase to the timing cover and use plastic sleeving with the same OD, the individual points wires just loose inside that.

When zip-tying the points wires to the front frame downtube, put the bottom zip-tie about level with the wire hole in the crankcase and make a "U" shape in the wires below the zip-tie and the crankcase hole - then any water running down the downtube or wires will run to the bottom of the "U" and drip off. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #219
Hi Vince,

Aside, I'm curious why you would ...? :confused:

Original points wires on your bike (Black/White and Black/Yellow) were/are moulded into black plastic insulation.

Otoh, pattern points wires are (should be) the same individual colours but are loose in a length of black plastic sleeving.

Original points wires, I slide the rubber bushing over the black insulation lubricated with cheap spray-on furniture polish (btw which, besides being an excellent rubber lube, is brilliant at reclaiming old and stiff rubber mouldings - spray on liberally, knead moulding gently 'til soft again, wipe off excess polish. (y) Cheap spray-on furniture polish has silicone, which is good for synthetic rubbers).

Pattern points wires, the rubber bushing folds the plastic sleeving lengthways inside the bushing, leaving a path for water that the bushing will never seal. I measure the ID of the hole through the crankcase to the timing cover and use plastic sleeving with the same OD, the individual points wires just loose inside that.

When zip-tying the points wires to the front frame downtube, put the bottom zip-tie about level with the wire hole in the crankcase and make a "U" shape in the wires below the zip-tie and the crankcase hole - then any water running down the downtube or wires will run to the bottom of the "U" and drip off. (y)

Hth.

Regards,
Brilliant!
 

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Kadutz - I have been listening. Education requires some investment... that’s how I move forward on this. fortunately? I’m not retired yet so have a bit to play with. This is the time for me to invest in this hobby while I still can.

Education, like Parts and Tools, ain't cheap. Working on Brit Bikes is not the same as Oriental, American or European bikes All have their own quirks.

You have a nice looking machine much nicer than what I started with. My 70 didn't have a center or side stand when I got it. I used to have to lean it against a building. Lots of work, time, money, luck and it wound up in Triumph In America.

As far as the eccentric screws they are replaceable in the later plate, had to double check that one. As you know they are made from a soft metal. Also the original points plate screws seemed to also be from a softer metal as easily as they chewed up. @daveforty made a comment about another fastener supplier you might want to look at metricmcc.com interesting place. Another site you might want to look at is amalsleeve.com Really surprised no one has mentioned it.

It's nice to be able to indulge one's hobby. It's even nicer to get what you want or need by looking around and getting enough of a better price that you have enough left over fo an ice cream cone. 🍦


K 😷
 
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