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I have a 1976 T140 that is just about ready to hit the streets after years of neglect. The issue I'm having is that the transmission used to go into all gears. Now, it's only been down the block since it's rebuild a few years ago but it always was able to move through the gears. Now I can only get it to sit in neutral or second gear. I had read that often times with these bikes when they sit for extended periods the clutch plates stick. So I tried tying the clutch lever back over night, had no effect. Tried a few simple adjustments but nothing working yet.
I want to know what the consensus would be as to where to look first. Maybe someone would say "I've had this exact same thing and I did xxxxx and it fixed it!!" I don't want to completely tear apart the gear box but will go that direction if necessary. The engine was completely rebuilt several years ago by what appears to be an incompetent mechanic so I'm not convinced something was neglected on the internals. Any thoughts?
 

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simple test to check if the clutch plates have stuck together -- pull the clutch lever fully to the bars then operate the kickstart lever - if it turns the engine then they are stuck - usually by holding the clutch lever and operating the kick start several times will unstick the clutch plates - )it is normal to do this every time you come to start the bike and will free the clutch every time if it is regularly used ) - if this does not free them then you need to go into the primary side and strip the clutch plates out and clean them --- tying the lever back only works if you park the bike with clutch plates already free , and will prevent them from sticking - so they will be free next time you start the bike
 

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Hi Rv_az, Since you rode the bike clutch must be working to degree or engine would have died at a standstill with clutch lever pulled.

Even is clutch is dragging you should be able to shift gears while underway, even if harshly.

What does trans do while bike is on center stand engine off? Can you shift it then? No clutch is needed then.

Does trans lock up when trying to go into 1st or 3rd? This would kill engine when letting clutch out or skid bike to a stop.

You should be able to select all gears by wiggling rear wheel & shifting. You should feel the play in wheel change slightly as the gears change & you should "feel" the shifter click the selector cam when moving shift lever. When you get into 1st or 5th you should feel the lever not grabbing the next gear since you're at the end of selector cam movement. Do you know what that feels like?

You can pull the cam plunger under cam & watch it turn. I'd do this before pulling trans cover.

If pulling lever releases clutch & the kicker lever moves freely, you look into trans via filler plug & see end of main shaft. Hold lever to bar all during this test. With some practice you can see the turning of main shaft changes speed in different gears. 5th is 1 to 1 so that's easy to see. 1st gear main shaft turns quicker via rear wheel. At least you can see a change. Again do this before pulling cover.

My hunch is your shift quadrant is not lined up properly or jamming. Still your symptoms doesn't match.

What do you feel when pushing pedal down to 1st? What do you feel when pulling up trying to get 3rd? What do you feel going into neutral & into 2nd?

Generally if a lever pawl is sticking in you can shift one way to the end, but not back, so you're stuck at one end. Since you get 2nd & back to N pawls are probably ok.

With the cam plunger out you can wiggle rear wheel & rotate bike through gears via cam with a flat blade screw driver. If quadrant gear is not lined up properly you'll not be able to get all gears. The quadrant will hit case at one end & stop rotation of cam. The cam turns rather easily by hand & all gears will engage if all is well. You should see all 5 detents & the N detent between 1&2 as you go through the gears. Remember you need to wiggle rear wheel to align the shift dogs as you go. You don't need the clutch to do this test. I can lay under bike & look up inside trans, but also you can use a mirror & flashlight to look up at shift cam. You cannot miss seeing a detent as they go by. They are very obvious. You should at least see N & 2nd since you get those gears.

Try to do these tests before you take trans apart as it will give insight to what to look for if you need to take trans apart.

You suggest the trans used to work good. Was the trans taken apart when motor work was done? Such as to split cases? So you only had 2nd gear during your recent brief road test? So you took off in 2nd? This is not a common problem.
Don
 

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TR7RVMan..... wow, thank you for so much information. Very helpful and I will make an effort this weekend to try all of the tips you have here.
To answer some of it.....
When the bike is on the stand I can't shift it into other gears.
What do you feel when pushing pedal down to 1st? -Feels really vague if that makes sense. The pedal moves some but it's not making that 'pop' that suggests it's in gear. As if it's bumping into something.
What do you feel when pulling up trying to get 3rd? - lots of effort and that's if it goes into gear. At this point it really feels as if it will only go into neutral and second. Even then when I push or pull on the shifter sometimes it doesn't want to go into neutral.
What do you feel going into neutral & into 2nd?- feels like it's hanging up on something.

I'll repost after I try these and let you know what I find. Thanks again.
 

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I also have a 1976 T 140 V 5 speed. The shifter lever will barely move. This was after a total expensive rebuild. I can get first while riding, second with effort, barely 3rd. Then it will not downshift at all unless I shut off the engine and do it by hand. Any ideas? thanks much Mike
 

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Hi T140blue, That is unusual. A few questions. Engine off, if you very gently move gear shift by hand just a little, does it want to come back to center reliably or does it feel like shaft is sticking or binding? I must center freely every time.

Do you have correct amount of oil in trans? You can see this by looking into filler plug hole bike on center stand or held vertically. Look in with flash light. Correct oil level will be oil at center drilling of lay shaft. Main shaft is the upper one that has the kick start pinion on it. Move the kicker lever & you'll see it engage. The lay shaft is below it straight down.

With engine off, bike on center stand, zig zagging rear wheel, moving shift lever by hand bike does it feel like it's selecting all gears 1-5?

Engine off does the clutch free properly kicking through with clutch lever pulled?

When riding & it's hard to shift, can you really hard down on lever & get to down shift? Does the lever feel like it doesn't want to move like it's stuck, or it moves, but doesn't select the next lower gear?


There is a lot going on to change gears. First the lever must always center reliably to allow pawl to grab quadrant to move it to next position. Then the cam must rotate to move forks to next gear. The plunger for cam must not bind, but allow cam to rotate smoothly. The gears must slide freely on their splines. At the same time the clutch must release fully to allow gears to slide. 5 speed gear dogs are back cut, meaning tapered such turn force pulls gears tightly together. A dragging clutch wants to keep gears locked together. However lots of other things can happed at same time. Most of this can be tested without taking much apart on trans. That is reason for specific questions. After you have a chance to look bike over with questions answered best you can, we can move forward. Cannot jump to conclusions.
Don
 

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My ‘77 T140 would not shift past second when the clutch didn’t release fully. It was extremely stiff on up and down shifting, unlike some bikes I’ve had that would shift better when the gearbox was spinning. I fixed the clutch, good shifting returned.
 

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Hi T140blue, That is unusual. A few questions. Engine off, if you very gently move gear shift by hand just a little, does it want to come back to center reliably or does it feel like shaft is sticking or binding? I must center freely every time. The shifter does not want to return to center if you move it. If you move it up, it stays up. Down stays down. ( engine running or not)

Do you have correct amount of oil in trans? You can see this by looking into filler plug hole bike on center stand or held vertically. Look in with flash light. Correct oil level will be oil at center drilling of lay shaft. Main shaft is the upper one that has the kick start pinion on it. Move the kicker lever & you'll see it engage. The lay shaft is below it straight down.
Fresh clean full of 85 wt oil

With engine off, bike on center stand, zig zagging rear wheel, moving shift lever by hand bike does it feel like it's selecting all gears 1-5? No. I can get 1,2,3.

Engine off does the clutch free properly kicking through with clutch lever pulled? Not with the engine off and cold. ( its about 40 here now) With the engine running I am able to engage first, at idle, engine does not stall. Almost impossible to upshift, not past 3rd. and then not able to downshift at all unless the engine is shut off.

When riding & it's hard to shift, can you really hard down on lever & get to down shift? Does the lever feel like it doesn't want to move like it's stuck, or it moves, but doesn't select the next lower gear?
Will not downshift with engine running.


There is a lot going on to change gears. First the lever must always center reliably to allow pawl to grab quadrant to move it to next position. Then the cam must rotate to move forks to next gear. The plunger for cam must not bind, but allow cam to rotate smoothly. The gears must slide freely on their splines. At the same time the clutch must release fully to allow gears to slide. 5 speed gear dogs are back cut, meaning tapered such turn force pulls gears tightly together. A dragging clutch wants to keep gears locked together. However lots of other things can happed at same time. Most of this can be tested without taking much apart on trans. That is reason for specific questions. After you have a chance to look bike over with questions answered best you can, we can move forward. Cannot jump to conclusions.
Don
Don: See answers above. First, thank you for taking your time and offering your expertise to help me. I have had several T 120's but that was 40 years ago. I wouldnt describe myself as an expert but worked for Porsche for ten years. I really appreciate your time and effort. I bought this bike from a guy who spent a terrific amount of money on it, only to get the engine back from a builder and it didnt run, wouldnt charge, and won't shift. He just gave up. I got it running,but the shifting issue came out of left field. I didnt realize it was an issue until I got it running. The builder would not return his phone calls, despite spending over $5k on the rebuild. It is "supposed" to have a new clutch, bearings, hub, chain etc, but until I look inside I cannot be sure. Regards, Mike
 

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Hi T140blue, Wow, what a coincidence. I was tech at Porsche/Audi for almost 12 years, finishing my career at Mercedes Benz 35 years.

So you know about things. You can look at parts book, shop manual & youtube vids & see how things go together. From that in your mind's eye you can visualize what's going on. Funny how Triumphs seem simple, but can have so many issues. Lots of parts sellers have both parts books & shop manual on line free. I like paper copy so you can make notes. Repro parts & shop manuals are not costly.

Your #1 problem to address first is the gear shifter. The shifter must center or the shift pawls(57-4403) won't retract/extend to grab the next slot in quadrant(57-7019), so even though lever is moved the quadrant is not pulled to next gear.

The left foot shifter is a modification of the original right foot shifter. The operation of shifter pawls, cam, gear change quadrant are all the same. Factory cut off right foot shift spines & closed up hole in cover. Then they modified left end of gear change quadrant shaft to accept a long shifter shaft from left side of motor. The long shifter shaft(57-7003) has a U crank to by pass clutch & comes through hole in primary cover. This long shaft connects to the gear change quadrant(57-7008) with a tab & slot. Think giant flat screw driver end. It just pushes in, contained by the primary cover.

The primary cover has bushing & O-ring for '77. Can you feel if the o-ring is binding? Sometimes too large o-ring is installed & shaft forced through. This can cause friction & bind. This ring & OD of bushing car (are prone??) to leaking. That's another subject. You may have to remove primary cover to really tell if binding or not. The shaft may be bent & binding also. With primary cover off, you'll know more. Again the shaft must center freely. Determining why shaft is binding is the first step. The shaft is pretty loose fit with primary cover off so if bent not very bad it might move freely.

If the shaft is still binding with primary cover off you'll have to go deeper. As you can see the shaft is trapped by the clutch basket. You need to remove clutch which will require clutch hub puller, engine sprocket puller. Use vibration damper puller for engine sprocket. Torque is very important. Also use Loctite 243 on both these nuts. 242 will work, but 243 is more oil resistant. With shaft out you can use large screw driver or grind flat on end of steel bar & test movement of gear shift quadrant. The shaft of this gear shift rides in 2 bushings which may have been burred.

If... you think shaft is ok & not the problem you can skip clutch removal & take outer trans cover off. Straight forward removal. Brake pedal etc in way. When removing cover hold kicker lever tightly so it doesn't get away from you & swing around. You'll see how you have to move lever to work cover off. Nothing falls apart removing cover.

With trans cover off things will be clear to you as now you can see where binding might be. The area of the shifter is prone to rust from condensation. The shifter return springs rust, wear & may not have enough tension. Later years factory installed much stronger springs which work much better & should be installed in every case. Original spring # was 57-0404 wire dia .155" & an when new spring was straight. You want later 57-7051 which as much thicker wire. The thick ones are curved as sold. So look at photos. Some sellers think these are the same spring. They are not!

Also plungers from 4 & 5 speed are different!! Here's a 5 speed conversion guide with ID photos so you can tell plungers. Incorrect plungers will drive you crazy & you'll chase your tail.

With outer cover off you can move the shifter quadrant(57-7019) with giant channel lock pliers while zig zagging wheel. It should move & select all gears. You should feel back lash in gear to cam. The detent for cam is strong & it won't shift easy but should click through gears. At the same time I'd remove & inspect cam plunger(57-7020). Some builders like to shim spring tighter. I don't like that. If spring is even close to spec it seems to work fine. Look up through plunger hole at cam. The cam can wear a deep groove, but generally lasts good. Fork tracks in cam can wear also. The cam has some steep ramps so some gears take more turning force of cam to shift. However.... With plunger removed the cam & gears should move freely & ever gear should be selected as you zig zag wheel. If outer cover was on, you can turn cam with screwdriver easily through the hole. I have done this many times. So that will tell if inner trans cover must come off. Not a lot to go wrong inside that you can't see from these tests.

Moving onto clutch. It should free well even cold. Meaning motor off, pull clutch lever. Kick down kicker pedal. Motor will come to compression, then pedal will free move as the plates have now separated. Coldest I've been overnight is 23f. Freed no problem at all. While you're there tease the clutch lever while kicking & you can feel it take up & release.

Good pressure plate lift measured through primary cover is .110-.120". I use a normal depth gauge. #1 problem during clutch rod adjustment is not enough slack in bar lever. Run the adjuster fully loose on bar end. Turn rod screw in until you see pressure plate lift. Verify clutch lever play. If no play back off cable at trans end. Now back off rod screw, run screw back gently until rod has zero play. Back off screw 1/2-5/8 turn. I like 5/8. Lock nut while counter holding screw. Adjust lever play so gap is about 1/16-3/32". Measure lift with depth gauge. Report back if you will what lift you have. Version of lever on handle can effect lift. Some over lift. If over lifting, give cable more play. When motor is heat soaked lever play increases. That is normal.

I think you'll find & correct faults no problem now. Please report findings back.

Where is your location? I'm Pleasant Hill, CA. If close enough we could meet up.
Don
 

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Don: Thanks tons. I have parts & shop manuals. I am located in beautiful downtown Schwenksville PA, about 40 miles NW of Philadelphia.
Tomorrow I am going to Aruba for a week so it will be a delay to look at this. I agree the clutch should disengage. I think I may peek under that cover first, as there is a clutch issue.
If you get to Philly some time, dinner is on me. Regards, Mike
 

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Don, aka TR7RVMan, is very thorough and has helped me in the past. But if I was a gambling man on this one, I would check the shift quadrant first. I had a very similar problem when I bought my 79 Bonneville last February. It had been sitting for I don't know how long at the shop I bought it from and who knows how long before the shop acquired it. I got it running, fluids changed etc and first putt putt around the neighborhood, it would not shift down from 2nd so like a dummy I went to 3rd then to 4th and of course to 5th. Bike would not come out of gear! Here are some pics of what I found after removing the trans cover. Condensation really did a number in there! I cleaned it all up and rebuilt the quadrant and she shifts smooth and quiet now!
!
715980
715981
 

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Hi T140blue, Wow what a nice bike!! So you have an interesting mix.... Pre 1970 frame. '73-76 front fender. US high bars (very comfortable). I can't tell year of switch gear from tese photos, I'm not that good. Dry frame headlamp, T140 early type instruments. Rear disc brake added to dry frame swing are. Looks like a very skilled fabricator put this bike together!

Enjoy your time away. We visited a 1.5 years ago. Philadelphia & visited Liberty Bell etc, then moved onto Amish country near Lancaster, finally Gettysburg. Of course had to tour Harley factory in York. Very meaningful to Americans. If we get back, I'll look you up. Was in late May & warming nicely. I surprised at how few bikes were out riding.

After you get back, we'll get back into the bike. Before you do tear down, please measure pressure plate lift as it is right now. I like to learn as much as I can. I find clutches & transmissions most interesting. There are lots of things to go wrong on clutches. The hard parts don't last long. Grooving of slots, wear in cush hub. Sadly many repro parts we are forced to use are marginal quality at best. One thing that really works good is 7 plate clutch kit. For clutch cables Barnett is the only brand to use. They are substantially stronger. 750 pressure plate springs are very stiff & quite hard on cables. With 7 plate kit you can use the softer 650 springs which gives much less lever effort with no slip. We'll see what you have & get into that later.

I expect you already know this, but car oil has friction modifiers that cause Triumph clutches to slip. Takes 10-20 miles of riding for the slip to start after car oil is used. You can drain oils & go to wet clutch motorcycle oil without cleaning plates. In 50 miles or so the slipping will stop.

For whatever reason various wet clutch motorcycle oils in USA can cause plates to stick after sitting. I don't know which as so many factors are involved. After break in I like Mobil1 V-twin 20-50. The clutch loves it & has been showing reduced motor wear so far in 23,000 miles I've been evaluating it. Has shown that on a few other bikes I've been monitoring as well. (old Triumphs). Walmart has best price. I've been finding break in oil is very desirable for old Triumphs after hone or rebore. I've only used Torco TBO break in oil. Comes in 30&40w. Seen many failure to fully break in without break in oil in my area, so I always use break in oil. I like to run it 3-500 miles. Follow break in riding procedures from owners handbook.
Don
 

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Hi Happyfeet, Thank you very much for posting the photos! That shows the kind of problems we see.

Regarding removing outer trans cover first, It's a personal choice. My feeling is if you can feel binding in crossover shaft, that must be addressed first. Mike is an experience auto technician. I can move gear shift lever ever so slightly & feel the tiny free play in the connection slot between end of cross shaft & gear shift shaft. The play is tiny, but I bet you can feel it also. Takes a gentle touch, but you'll feel it. I know Mike will feel if shaft is binding or not. As I suggested if binding that must be corrected first. Apparently the motor was just rebuilt. We'd hope the rebuilder would repair/replace rusted parts. But.... we know how that goes.

On an aside the main shaft nut is very prone to working loose. In every case it should be loctited. At least with 243. The last ones I've been using red 671. I also bend both tabs. on lock washer, as well as verify the center tab in spline actually engages spline. Bend tab as need so it does. Occasionally if nut comes loose, it works such it wears or breaks off either of the 3 tabs so nut actually backs right off. So Loctite is a good safety measure. The threads are so short even red will remove with wrench. Blue 242,243 is no problem to remove with wrench. Red or blue comes loose easy with heat gun.
Don
 

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Hi T140blue, Wow what a nice bike!! So you have an interesting mix.... Pre 1970 frame. '73-76 front fender. US high bars (very comfortable). I can't tell year of switch gear from tese photos, I'm not that good. Dry frame headlamp, T140 early type instruments. Rear disc brake added to dry frame swing are. Looks like a very skilled fabricator put this bike together!

Enjoy your time away. We visited a 1.5 years ago. Philadelphia & visited Liberty Bell etc, then moved onto Amish country near Lancaster, finally Gettysburg. Of course had to tour Harley factory in York. Very meaningful to Americans. If we get back, I'll look you up. Was in late May & warming nicely. I surprised at how few bikes were out riding.

After you get back, we'll get back into the bike. Before you do tear down, please measure pressure plate lift as it is right now. I like to learn as much as I can. I find clutches & transmissions most interesting. There are lots of things to go wrong on clutches. The hard parts don't last long. Grooving of slots, wear in cush hub. Sadly many repro parts we are forced to use are marginal quality at best. One thing that really works good is 7 plate clutch kit. For clutch cables Barnett is the only brand to use. They are substantially stronger. 750 pressure plate springs are very stiff & quite hard on cables. With 7 plate kit you can use the softer 650 springs which gives much less lever effort with no slip. We'll see what you have & get into that later.

I expect you already know this, but car oil has friction modifiers that cause Triumph clutches to slip. Takes 10-20 miles of riding for the slip to start after car oil is used. You can drain oils & go to wet clutch motorcycle oil without cleaning plates. In 50 miles or so the slipping will stop.

For whatever reason various wet clutch motorcycle oils in USA can cause plates to stick after sitting. I don't know which as so many factors are involved. After break in I like Mobil1 V-twin 20-50. The clutch loves it & has been showing reduced motor wear so far in 23,000 miles I've been evaluating it. Has shown that on a few other bikes I've been monitoring as well. (old Triumphs). Walmart has best price. I've been finding break in oil is very desirable for old Triumphs after hone or rebore. I've only used Torco TBO break in oil. Comes in 30&40w. Seen many failure to fully break in without break in oil in my area, so I always use break in oil. I like to run it 3-500 miles. Follow break in riding procedures from owners handbook.
Don
Hey Don! Back from vacation. Weather here in Philly is 60 degrees so I thought I would take a peek. I took the right side gear box cover off first because the kick starter gear is missing 5 teeth. I took some pictures. I looks like the clutch release is moving so far that it is wearing against the brass shaft end. You can see little bits of brass in the case.I guess they adjusted it as far as possible because the clutch will not release. Curiously the shifter on the left side is still difficult to move even with these pieces removed. I guess my next move is remove the primary cover and the clutch.
See attached pics. Mike
 

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Don: Took the primary cover off. When I removed all the bolts and moved the shift lever up and down, the whole cover moved up and down. I do not know how likely this is but I think the transmission crossover shaft is bent. If I put just two bolts back in, just loose, the shifter is difficult to move again. And it appears the clutch hub adjuster screw is rubbing on the inside of the case adjustment cover screw,. Odd Thanks, Mike
 

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Hi T140Blue, Hope you have a nice vacation & thawed out. 60f, how nice is that. Like my weather...

Back to the bike. Kind of getting ahead of me. Did you measure pressure plate lift?
The adjuster screw for clutch rod hitting access plug in cover is basically normal & well known.. I've seen this many times & my bike did it. I will wear hole in plug over time. The cure is shorten adjuster screw as needed & cut new screwdriver slot. HOWEVER do this after all the other repairs are done. As your 3 ball cam is not adjusted properly as it is hitting main shaft. Often this is due to not having enough cable free play when adjusting rod. Often will hear a click, but not always when cam is over lifted. That's why I wanted you to measure lift first and adjust clutch rod properly. The fulcrum on bar lever is an important part of mix. We'll revisit this later after you get other items corrected.

Regarding stiff shaft, the shaft is supported at each end only. No support in center of engine case. So if screws are backed off & shaft moves freely the o-ring & bushing are ok. So if that's the case it does seem shaft is bent. Depending on where bend is I wonder if you could straighten it? I don't have much experaince on left foot shift, but maybe a crash hitting shift lever might bend the U crank or outer spindle?? I don't know how stiff these parts are & what is most likely to bend.

Does gear change quadrant move the gears freely when you move it with big channel lock pliers? Zig zag wheel at same time to align dogs in trans of course.

Now you can see how the pawls move out as gear change lever is moved & grab a tooth at a time on quadrant. Pretty clever! Does that all seem to move freely?

5 teeth are missing? From exactly which gear? That is unusual. The kicker gear, ratchet gears & ratchet teeth, bushing & the flat coil ratchet spring MUST BE PERFECT!! A slip of the kicker lever will cause sever knee damage.
I've not seen it, but I've heard kicking back can break teeth from ratchet pinion. Kicking back is caused by incorrect timing, lean carb idle circuit, not tickling enough, & very importantly not kicking hard enough. In any order.

Again verify you have 5 speed pawls.

Back to clutch drag, groove wear in basket & hub, wear in spider inside cush hub, can cause problems with drag. Owners get frustrated & try rod adjustments to help. Worn clutch parts never work right. We'll revisit that after you get clutch off.

I found the last set of photos were blurry especially with enlarged. Hard to see the details. Not really needed to repost them, but if possible try to get crisp photos. I know that's often not easy.

In every case get the later shifter springs 57-7051. I'll post photo showing older & new versions. Curved is improved version. Of course these won't cure binding shafts. Just makes good parts shift much better as lever is reliably centered.
Heavy duty shifter springs 57-7051.JPG
Heavy duty shifter springs 57-7051.JPG

Don
 

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That clutch actuator has an X stamped on it. That means that it's designed for the later T160 style switches and levers.
 

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Hi,
I have also seen this rubbing when the gearbox outer cover has been fitted using sealant rather than a gasket. This takes up about 1/2 mm (20 thou) of the available clearance, that is not very generous in the first place.

regards
Peg.
 

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That clutch actuator has an X stamped on it. That means that it's designed for the later T160 style switches and levers.
What should the correct one have? Just no "X"? Did you see the brass chips off the shaft? Seems like the travel was too much for the clutch rod. Thanks, Mike
 
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