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Discussion Starter #1
Today I began disassembling the old girl. I plan on rebuilding the top end, replacing gaskets, rebuilding the forks, fixing an electrical issue, touching up the frame, and so on. Earlier this year, the first I had it running since I got her, I've replaced a gear in the gearbox, replaced the carbs, replaced the clutch plates, and replaced the brake shoes. She ran great every time. No breakdowns or problems. I rode her nearly every day for the past nine months. Last ride was today. But oil leaked out of every joint and it burned a fair amount. I want to get it so it's as reliable as I can make it.

Under removing the engine unit, the manual says "Remove the bolts securing the switch panel to the frame, disconnect the Lucar connections from the ignition switch where necessary, and remove the panel." I haven't been able to figure out yet what it's referring to. Can someone enlighten me?
 

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Good luck with the rebuild Eric, I’ll be following it closely. I think the switch panel might be a reference to the left side panel on some earlier models. This houses the ignition switch and bolts to the frame so you’d have to unbolt it to remove the connectors (Lucar) from the ignition switch. I believe the manual you’re using covers models from engine no H29733 which is the 1963 range, early enough to have the switch in the left side panel on some bikes.
 

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Hi Eric,

Both Rusty and I have 1972 T100Rs, both restored, and both are cherry red and white, correct for that year. Mine certainly does not have the ignition key in the side panel - it's in the lhs headlight bracket.

If your bike really is a 72 T100R do you have the right manual?

Some pics of my restoration may be of use:


IMG_0005.JPG
IMG_0006.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks, guys. I think it's probably referring to the side panel mounted switch, which mine does not have.

Both Rusty and I have 1972 T100Rs, both restored, and both are cherry red and white, correct for that year. Mine certainly does not have the ignition key in the side panel - it's in the lhs headlight bracket.

If your bike really is a 72 T100R do you have the right manual?
Beautiful machine! I'm fairly certain mine is a '72 T100R. It looks almost identical to Chris' (Rusty1) bike, although it differs from yours in a couple of respects. The title says 1972 (although that doesn't prove anything) and it came with a '72 Owners Manual (and that doesn't prove anything either). The Service Manual I own has until now not differed from the machine I have, so it could be as Chris says, an inclusion for an earlier model. Mine says it starts from H28733 on the cover, H65573 on the flyleaf, and H49833 in the introduction. Is it a Frankenbook?

716667
 

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Hi Eric,

That looks very correct for the early 72 (1973 model year) US-spec Daytona. If you have a copy of John Nelson's book (long out of print) on the 500 twins, he shows that early in the model year they painted the tank like yours and had those mufflers. Later in the year, they changed the mufflers to accommodate changed noise regulations and they changed the tank paint layout too. So your's and Rusty's are early model year, as I understand it, mine's a bit later in the model year.

I did a lot of research when I restored mine last year as the muffler brackets looked unusual - but fortuitously Nelson does show a picture of them. They are unusual - to suit that late in-year muffler. Took me a while to understand the in-year changes! If you haven't got that book I can scan and send you a few of the relevant pages if that would help.

Andy
 

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Thanks, guys. I think it's probably referring to the side panel mounted switch, which mine does not have.
Hi Eric,

I think the repair manuals were subject to periodic supplements to avoid the cost of re-printing the entire publication, that’s why the book covers such a large frame number range. The bit about the switch panel isn’t relevant to your bike, your ignition switch is up front and the left side panel is just removed by undoing the plastic headed screw, no bolts. I love your Daytona, it’s exactly what I was looking for (and found thanks to Stuart) when I was shopping. Something with patina that I wouldn’t be afraid to use whenever the opportunity arose but good enough to justify expenditure when needed.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That looks very correct for the early 72 (1973 model year) US-spec Daytona. If you have a copy of John Nelson's book (long out of print) on the 500 twins, he shows that early in the model year they painted the tank like yours and had those mufflers. Later in the year, they changed the mufflers to accommodate changed noise regulations and they changed the tank paint layout too. So your's and Rusty's are early model year, as I understand it, mine's a bit later in the model year.

I did a lot of research when I restored mine last year as the muffler brackets looked unusual - but fortuitously Nelson does show a picture of them. They are unusual - to suit that late in-year muffler. Took me a while to understand the in-year changes! If you haven't got that book I can scan and send you a few of the relevant pages if that would help.
Ah! I appreciate the info! I wondered about the different models for that year. I ran into one like yours at the annual Ton-up here this summer. I thought it sounded a little quieter than mine. The only difference I've spotted between Chris' and mine is he's got the connected pipes (are they still called Siamese?). That might give a little power boost over my separate pipes. Just learning about that stuff in the motorcycle tech class I'm taking. Yeah, I'd love to see those pages. Thanks!

I love your Daytona, it’s exactly what I was looking for (and found thanks to Stuart) when I was shopping. Something with patina that I wouldn’t be afraid to use whenever the opportunity arose but good enough to justify expenditure when needed.
Right on! Yeah, I love her too. So much damn fun to ride, and I can't go anywhere without getting into a conversation with an admirer. I put on around 3750 miles last year. The clocks at 13,537 now.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Spent the afternoon in disassembly, drinking coffee and lighting butts. Happy as hell getting totally filthy. Took off everything down to the engine mounting fasteners. Drained oils, off with the tanks, carbs, pipes, battery, coils, torque stays, cables, leads, etc. etc. Organized all the bits, added to my shopping list. Getting a buddy to help lift the lump out later. I'm going to do the engine rebuild at the community college where I'm taking motorcycle tech classes. I'm not the only old man there. There's a guy with a '14 Thruxton in my class. The instructor, a former Hog wrench, owns over 40 Buells. I'm not shittin.
 

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Hi Eric,

Didn't realise you are doing a full rebuild - good on you. Take lots of photos, and when you think you've enough, take plenty more. You'll need them.

Mine was already stripped and had been sitting in a shed for 37 years, so wasn't in the best condition, but sandblasting and then powder coating of the black bits, vapour blasting of the castings and ultrasonic cleaning of the carbs soon brought the as-new look back.

They are a fairly simple engine, just make sure you know where the various spacers and washers go, and which way around. If you don't have one yet, download the correct workshop manual for the year and get the parts book too -both are free on line. I paid for professional help to change main bearings, and bushes and blind bearings where you need special tools, and got them to change the bearing and seal for the gearbox output gear but other than that normal workshop tools work.

I've scanned the relevant pages from Nelson, for the 71-73 model years, and hopefully attached this. I also included a page showing Siamese pipes. The pipe between the exhaust that Chris and I have is a balance pipe, and as I understand it was to reduce exhaust noise.

I mislead you over your tank paint scheme. Reading Nelson, early in the year the white on the tank was underneath, later in the year it moved to the top - which is what someone on here posted many months ago. So, your tank paints should be late in the year, but then your exhausts are from early in the year. No doubt what you have is all correct, but it's not quite my reading of how they left the factory. Having said that, and as others have said, at that time Triumph were in deep financial trouble and bikes sat for weeks awaiting parts. Mine was built in late 71 (so a 72 model) but not delivered until mid 72, presumably awaiting parts. So, who knows? The exhaust hangers I have are as shown on page 149.

If you're not quite sure of the date of your Daytona, here's how:

Triumph dating.JPG

The manufacturing year ran from summer to spring, so bikes built in say August of 71 were 1972 model year machines. Mine has an XG number, so built in December 1971 for the 72 year. You can get the definitive date of manufacture and where it was sent new (i.e the USA etc) from Richard Wheadon (The Registrar) at the Triumph Owners MCC - check the website.

Hope you are going to post lots of photos of the strip and re-build!
 

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Hi Eric,

Apologies for being late to the party ...

Under removing the engine unit, the manual says "Remove the bolts securing the switch panel to the frame, disconnect the Lucar connections from the ignition switch where necessary, and remove the panel." I haven't been able to figure out yet what it's referring to.

switch panel might be a reference to the left side panel on some earlier models.
(y) '62-'67. The C-range ('57-on unit 350 and 500) road bikes started out with Edward Turner's nacelle over the top of the forks, that housed headlamp, speedo., Ammeter, ignition and lighting switches (the latter two combined pre-'62). The nacelle and accompanying 'bathtub' from behind the engine over the rear wheel and the deeply-valanced 'Roman helmet' front fender were hated particularly in the US; as Triumph developed later versions without them, the speedo. was mounted on the now-revealed top yoke, the Ammeter could be mounted in the separate headlamp shell, the switches were mounted in the new sidepanel under the rider's left buttock ... After the introduction of 12V electrics from '66, the previous rotary ignition switch was replaced by a simple on/off key switch, but the protruding key fob was larger and more-easily struck by the rider's leg, so the switch was moved to the drive-side headlamp 'ear'; the '62-on separate lighting-only switch was then small enough to fit in the headlamp shell with the Ammeter (and first one and then two idiot lamps).

do you have the right manual?

repair manuals were subject to periodic supplements to avoid the cost of re-printing the entire publication,
(y)

fairly certain mine is a '72 T100R.
Its VIN format on both frame an engine should be a 2-letter date code followed by a 5-figure number, both either preceded or followed by the "T100R" model code. If it's a '72, according to the aforementioned John Nelson's Triumph Tiger 100 And Daytona and Triumph In America by Lindsay Brooke and David Gaylin, the date code and number should be between JG32303 and GG59646.

The Service Manual I own has until now not differed from the machine I have, so it could be as Chris says, an inclusion for an earlier model. Mine says it starts from H28733 on the cover, H65573 on the flyleaf, and H49833 in the introduction.
If the "Service Manual" looks like this:-



... it was first introduced for '63 and was only updated by supplements (unlike the 650 manual) 'til the last C-range in '74.

H29733 was the first '63 C-range, H65573 was the first '69 and introduced different bottom end (thanks to different main bearings) and Unified threadforms in the engine, H49833 was the first '67 and introduced the completely-redesigned frame on your bike, twin-carb. Daytonas, UNF threads on some cycle parts.

As your manual's last update (highest VIN) is '69, a '72 version of your manual would've had the '69 supplement superseded by a '70 that also introduced crankcase venting through the primary and a '71 supplement with updated (but misprinted ...) wiring diagrams for the switch clusters on your bike - they were printed with the switch clusters in late-'72-on format (turn signals on the left, headlamp dipswitch on the right; '71-to-late-'72 they were the other way 'round and the dipswitch cluster is different). The online version of the manual at http://classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/350-500/63-74-350-500cc-Repair.pdf has all the update supplements.

The manufacturing year ran from summer to spring,
Uh-uh ... Apart from the '74 model year starting in calendar June 1973, the change from one 'model year' to the next was never anywhere near "spring" - it was more usually somewhere between July and September and could vary between different ranges - e.g. because the 650 twin engine essentially didn't fit in the new-for-'71 OIF, production of '71 500's began in calendar September 1970 (with KE00001), but the last 'dry-frame' 650's were produced in calendar October 1970.

early 72 (1973 model year) US-spec Daytona.
had those mufflers. Later in the year, they changed the mufflers to accommodate changed noise regulations
This is confusing:-

. JG32303 - the first 1972-model-year T100R - was built in calendar August ("J") 1971; GG59646 - the last 1972 model year T100R sent to the US - was built in calendar June ("G") 1972.

. The mufflers on your bike had been fitted to all C-range pre-'71; '71-on, US-market bikes continued with 'em, the mufflers on Andy's bike were fitted certainly to British-market bikes, possibly to others not destined for the US; they and their different mounting brackets are not a "late in-year" change. Andy's bike also has the larger (by a UK gallon) 'UK & General Export' tank, with only one tap outlet on the drive side; the smaller US-market tank has a tap outlet on each side.

The exhaust hangers I have are as shown on page 149
... of Triumph Tiger 100 And Daytona; the photograph is captioned, "The extended tapering cone silencers fitted to the home market models later in the 1971 season" ...

Took me a while to understand the in-year changes!
All you had to do was ask. ;)

only difference I've spotted between Chris' and mine is he's got the connected pipes (are they still called Siamese?).
That might give a little power boost over my separate pipes
Uh-uh, they're "coupled" aka "balanced" - Siamese is when two or more exhaust pipes are connected to one muffler. The coupled/balanced exhaust systems were fitted to all '69-on Triumph and BSA twins; it allowed the exhaust from either cylinder to exit through both pipes and mufflers; as Andy posted, it reduced noise slightly without any other changes.

Also, your pipes are pattern; while Triumph tilted the mufflers up a little, their line followed from the line of the lower part of the exhaust pipe.

tank paint scheme. Reading Nelson, early in the year the white on the tank was underneath, later in the year it moved to the top
Uh-uh again ...

Firstly, bear in mind many of the pictures in "Nelson" (Triumph Tiger 100 And Daytona) are pre-production, from styling ideas being tried for an upcoming year.

The "white on the tank ... underneath" pictures are simply one traditional Triumph scheme; e.g.:-



... otoh, the 'flashes' off the top of the tank badges were originally inspired in the US in the early 1960's - iirc by Bob Leppan at Triumph Detroit - they were originally both above and below the tank badge:-

716764


... ime, as a rough rule-of-thumb, 'flashes' (either above-'n'-below or just 'above' the tank badges) were more often applied to US-market tanks while 'half-'n'-half' was more often applied to 'UK & General Export' tanks. But, say, the UK&GE T100 tank 'works' with 'flashes', as Andy's pictures show. About the only tanks that didn't have that style of 'flashes' applied by the factory were the 'breadbin' style - UK&GE T150 and OIF.

your tank paints should be late in the year, but then your exhausts are from early in the year.
So no, ... your tank is a repaint by a PO, just using similar colours to Triumph '72 Cherry & White; the mufflers appear to be 'correct' for a '72 (insofar as we're talking about a bike that's nearly half-a-century old, and has had several PO?) bu the exhaust pipes are clearly pattern.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Its VIN format on both frame an engine should be a 2-letter date code followed by a 5-figure number, both either preceded or followed by the "T100R" model code. If it's a '72, according to the aforementioned John Nelson's Triumph Tiger 100 And Daytona and Triumph In America by Lindsay Brooke and David Gaylin, the date code and number should be between JG32303 and GG59646.
Hi Stuart, my VIN is XG41373. That translates to December 1972, right? Does that make it a 1973 model year?

The online version of the manual at http://classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/350-500/63-74-350-500cc-Repair.pdf has all the update supplements.
Thanks for that!

Uh-uh, they're "coupled" aka "balanced" - Siamese is when two or more exhaust pipes are connected to one muffler. The coupled/balanced exhaust systems were fitted to all '69-on Triumph and BSA twins; it allowed the exhaust from either cylinder to exit through both pipes and mufflers; as Andy posted, it reduced noise slightly without any other changes.

Also, your pipes are pattern; while Triumph tilted the mufflers up a little, their line followed from the line of the lower part of the exhaust pipe.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I often see the word "pattern" used here. What does that mean? As originally designed by Triumph?

So no, ... your tank is a repaint by a PO, just using similar colours to Triumph '72 Cherry & White; the mufflers appear to be 'correct' for a '72 (insofar as we're talking about a bike that's nearly half-a-century old, and has had several PO?) bu the exhaust pipes are clearly pattern.
Oh, my tank was repainted? I'm a little saddened to hear that. I was hoping that most of this bike was original, but I really had no idea. The paint job looks professional, and pretty old. It's got a nice craquelure like an old masterpiece.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey Stuart, that link is the same manual I have a hardcopy of. Thanks for confirming I have the right one.
 

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Hi Eric,

VIN is XG41373. That translates to December 1972, right? Does that make it a 1973 model year?
Uh-uh.

The right-most letter of the date code is always the "model year" aka "season"; sometimes it corresponds to the calendar year, sometimes it doesn't. Otoh, the left-most letter of the date code is a calendar month.

"XG" translates as "the calendar December [X] of the 1972 [G] model year aka season". As I posted earlier, the model year usually changed around July/August/September, from corresponding with the calendar year to the following calendar year. So, in around calendar July/August/September 1971, Meriden stopped making 1971-model-year bikes and started making 1972-model-year bikes.

The change occurred in late summer/early autumn because exported bikes went by sea; exports to southern-hemisphere countries would arrive around when calendar and model years corresponded again and in their summer; exports to the US - which was far-and-away Triumph's biggest export market - would be stockpiled ready for the US summer selling season, which could be short in some states.

Because model years could change anywhere around July/August/September and model years weren't always exactly twelve months long, some model years can have two of those months, e.g. a "July" at the beginning and another "July" at the end - the 1970 model year started in July 1969 and, as I say, went all the way to September 1970 for T100's and October 1970 for 650's.

However, I can't think of a model year that had two Decembers, so XG - "the calendar December of the 1972 model year aka season" - is December 1971.

often see the word "pattern" used here. What does that mean? As originally designed by Triumph?
Regrettably, no. It means a part "patterned" on one made by Triumph. Very rarely, pattern parts are the same or better than Triumph made. More often than not, they've been bashed out in some low-wage country, not subjected to much (any?) quality control; e.g. if you compare the bends on your bike's exhaust pipes with those on Andy's or Chris's bikes (which are pretty good representations of original Triumph pipes), you'll see your bike's lack the compound-radius curves at the front and, as I posted earlier, are simply bent at the muffler ends to try and point the mufflers up a little. :(

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with them as pipes for moving exhaust gas from cylinder head to muffler, just depends on the 'look' you want; if you want 'standard', they aren't it; otoh, if you want 'slightly customised', you might be happy with them.

my tank was repainted?
More photos., especially of the top, would clarify but afaict the edge of the White flash appears to parallel the top edge of the tank cutaway? I have some photos. of an original Meriden-painted Cherry & White US market tank that passed through my hands many years ago; if I can find a way to scan 'em (my scanner's turned up its toes :(), I'll post 'em

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Eric, your Daytona and mine are almost brothers, mine's XG41136, so only 230-odd different. December 71 production. I was in my penultimate year at secondary school and Britain was just going decimal in its coinage!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The right-most letter of the date code is always the "model year" aka "season"; sometimes it corresponds to the calendar year, sometimes it doesn't. Otoh, the left-most letter of the date code is a calendar month.

"XG" translates as "the calendar December [X] of the 1972 [G] model year aka season". As I posted earlier, the model year usually changed around July/August/September, from corresponding with the calendar year to the following calendar year. So, in around calendar July/August/September 1971, Meriden stopped making 1971-model-year bikes and started making 1972-model-year bikes.

The change occurred in late summer/early autumn because exported bikes went by sea; exports to southern-hemisphere countries would arrive around when calendar and model years corresponded again and in their summer; exports to the US - which was far-and-away Triumph's biggest export market - would be stockpiled ready for the US summer selling season, which could be short in some states.

Because model years could change anywhere around July/August/September and model years weren't always exactly twelve months long, some model years can have two of those months, e.g. a "July" at the beginning and another "July" at the end - the 1970 model year started in July 1969 and, as I say, went all the way to September 1970 for T100's and October 1970 for 650's.

However, I can't think of a model year that had two Decembers, so XG - "the calendar December of the 1972 model year aka season" - is December 1971.
Very interesting! Did the change take some time, or were they able to begin producing the next model immediately? How many were they building in a model year around then?

Regrettably, no. It means a part "patterned" on one made by Triumph. Very rarely, pattern parts are the same or better than Triumph made. More often than not, they've been bashed out in some low-wage country, not subjected to much (any?) quality control; e.g. if you compare the bends on your bike's exhaust pipes with those on Andy's or Chris's bikes (which are pretty good representations of original Triumph pipes), you'll see your bike's lack the compound-radius curves at the front and, as I posted earlier, are simply bent at the muffler ends to try and point the mufflers up a little. :(

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with them as pipes for moving exhaust gas from cylinder head to muffler, just depends on the 'look' you want; if you want 'standard', they aren't it; otoh, if you want 'slightly customised', you might be happy with them.
Ah, good to know! Now that I see the difference in pipe shape I do like the original compound curves. I'm not after a customized look, but I'm good with the way mine look for now.

More photos., especially of the top, would clarify but afaict the edge of the White flash appears to parallel the top edge of the tank cutaway? I have some photos. of an original Meriden-painted Cherry & White US market tank that passed through my hands many years ago; if I can find a way to scan 'em (my scanner's turned up its toes :(), I'll post 'em
I'm pretty sure the tank badge has been repainted. I've never found another example of white logo on black. The mud guards match the tank exactly to my eyes.

716789


716788
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Eric, your Daytona and mine are almost brothers, mine's XG41136, so only 230-odd different. December 71 production. I was in my penultimate year at secondary school and Britain was just going decimal in its coinage!
Hey, that's cool, Andy! I bet they were just gorgeous fresh off the production line. I was in the middle of elementary school in a small town in northern Michigan.
 

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Interesting to compare yours with mine, given that they were built maybe only a week or 2 apart. You have the US handlebars and tank, but everything else I can see in the photos is identical - other than that tank emblem! Even to the rubber cups around the idiot lights. And I have the knee pads on mine. That emblem's an easy repaint when taken off the tank.. Bit of paint stripper, and a hard (as in ice) white enamel, a steady hand and a good quality fine paint brush.

I had a '68 Daytona many years ago, but I don't have many photos of it (unfortunately) so it's interesting to compare with yours. Even though mine's a UK spec bike and I'm effectively only the 3rd owner and given that it was in bits for 37 years, most of it is as original as I can be sure of - but it's good to compare.

Have you any more close up photos?
 
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