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Hi Dan,

will upgrade the alternator as a matter of course.

when you come to upgrade the alternator, 3-phase is the 'most bang for your buck'
There's a company in GB also making pattern Lucas alternator stators and rotors. Aiui, the company came out of the last 'original Lucas' manufacturing unit in GB; however, since Wassell got their exclusive licence to use the "Lucas" branding, this company's parts are simply known as "Made In England" or "Made In UK".

47244 is the 'original Lucas' part number for the 'high-output' (14.5A @ 5,000 rpm) 3-phase stator. If you look at, say, http://www.tms-motorcycles.co.uk/store/products/list.asp?cat_id=143 and scroll down to "47244" in the "Code" column, you'll see both the "MADE IN UK" one and the slightly cheaper Wassell "[Genuine] LUCAS" :rofl one.

Similarly, 54202299/UK and 54202299 are respectively the 'Made In UK' and Wassell rotors.

Modern voltage regulator
TMS also list both "Genuine Podtronics" and Wassell reg./rec., or the 'A-Reg3' link I posted earlier is to Al Osborn, who's been around a long time and is another of The Good Guys.

Re the ammeter,
Mmmm ... as the high-output 3-phase is 14.5A @ 5,000 rpm, even if your bike has the 12A Ammeter, it could reach its limit before the alternator output, the simple shunt wire between its terminals will just halve its indication all the time.

That said, those Ammeters' small diameter, plus vibration on a twin (or single), makes 'em pretty useless; if you use your bike's, the best you can hope for is the needle waggles over a range where it's 'OK' and another range where it's 'Too Low'. Tbh, with a high-output 3-phase alternator, modern reg./rec. and decent wiring, the electrics are pretty-much fit-'n'-forget; a half-century-old Ammeter or modern pattern replacement - both cheap - become the least-reliable electrical part. :(

Have you any experience of these pattern clocks?
Bought a pair for the T100 in the early naughties on the recommendation of a restorer acquaintance, who was already using 'em on his restorations. No problems.

grab rail has holes in the gussets which would look to be ideal for indicator mounting (see pic).
it cleaned up quite nicely, but there's some heavier corrosion on the tube on the inside of the gussets which is just a little too far gone to save,
Yep, that's a '73-'75 dry-frame grabrail I mentioned.

As it's the inside of the gussets that's badly-rusted, Dremel-'n'-wire-brush away the rust then paint with silver Hammerite?

pondering wrapping,
I strap the wires to frame tubes - mainly the top spine tube and the drive-side seat tube - with releasable, reuseable cable ties:-



... those wider ones are the only thing I never have trouble buying, from autojumble stalls selling electrical bits, but can't find easily on the www. :confused:

Massively, thank you
Pleased I could help. :)

wheels.
local wheel builder
take them down there and talk through options. I know the spokes and rims are toast,
Unless you don't want fit-'n'-forget, ime stainless spokes and either stainless or good ally (I use Morad) rims:-

. Stainless spokes should be polished; if they aren't, the risk is they break at one of the little nicks; :( if polished is then too shiny, light bead-blast will dull them so they look like weathered zinc-plated, but they'll never go rusty. :thumb

. Ally rims obviously don't look standard, but they're lighter than stainless, and the weight is unsprung.

. Cost ... grit teeth, tighten sphincters and keep repeating, "They'll still look good long after I've forgotten the cost ...". :D

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Hi Dan,

FWIW, I've just had a pair of wheels rebuilt by a local wheel builder for my '72 T100R - 19" front and 18" rear. He used CWC British Chrome rims, and stainless spokes. He vapour blasted and powder coated the hubs (in the correct colours) and fitted new tyres, tubes and tapes. The bill, gulp, was £750.

They ain't cheap, but they look fantastic and match the rest of the bike.
 

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... powder coated the hubs ...
I would be wary of powdercoating hubs, as the spoke roots will crush the powdercoating which will eventually cause loosening. Too late, but you really need to keep an eye on them and "tink" test them regularly by tapping with a screwdriver. As soon as you hear a "thunk" instead of a tink, it's time to address the problem.
 

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Thx, I'll keep an eye on them. The wheel builder himself suggested the powder coating - which is nowhere near as thick as on the frame. If they slacken, he'll re-tension.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Hi Dan,

FWIW, I've just had a pair of wheels rebuilt by a local wheel builder for my '72 T100R - 19" front and 18" rear. He used CWC British Chrome rims, and stainless spokes. He vapour blasted and powder coated the hubs (in the correct colours) and fitted new tyres, tubes and tapes. The bill, gulp, was £750.

They ain't cheap, but they look fantastic and match the rest of the bike.
Wow, they look stunning. As you say, not cheap, but what a lovely finish, and set the bike off really well. Lovely. :thumb: I think I’m going to have to bite the bullet and do something soon, as looking at my rusty wrecks is depressing, and the ability to be able to get the bike sitting on its wheels will be handy in terms of garage space as the rest of the project continues. It’s easy enough to pop it on and off the lift.

In terms of progress, I’ve got the forks apart. Left side took 15 mins, right about 2 hrs. After multiple failed attempts to undo it, I had to resort to heat to get the stanchion end plug out, which has distorted the bush inside it, so it no longer slides on the damper tube. New one ordered and on its way. I tried the plug from the other side and it’s fine, so the tube itself is OK, luckily.

The forks have the leakproof seals and interference washers, so I have identical LF Harris replacements ready to fit. I’ve also got new damper o-rings and bottom hex sealing washers, as well as eight new spindle studs, washers and nuts, and a pair of new end caps. I also have new British made stanchions (diameter and length look good, and my existing top and bottom plugs screw in either end fine), so am confident these are ok. Also have a new pair of progressive springs to go in. I’ve used these on other bikes and I like them.

The fork legs have cleaned up well. I hand sanded them with a sanding sponge to remove as many of the surface blemishes as possible, then primed and painted with steel wheel paint, finishing off with a couple of coats of polyurethane lacquer. It’s not a pro job, and you can find fault if you look closely, but they have a nice shine to them, and look a heck of a lot better than they did. I used the old studs and drain screws to stop the threads getting clogged with paint. These will go in the bin on reassembly. The studs were also ideal for holding the leg upright in the vice for painting.

I’m going to give the lacquer a few days to go off, then put it all back together and refit the forks to the bike.

The metalastic handlebar clamp bushes in the top yoke were perished, so I’ve knocked these out before repainting the top yoke. Any opinions on whether to fit new bushes (and new heminwashers etc), or convert the bars to solid mounts? Both are readily available and similar money, so what would you advise?
 

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Hi Dan,

look stunning.
lovely finish,
Without intending to rain on the parade, bear in mind what I posted earlier - chrome isn't fit-'n'-forget ... As said, none of it's cheap, up to you whether the additional cost of stainless or ally is worth it?

leakproof seals and interference washers, so I have identical LF Harris replacements ready to fit.
If old and new seals are the 'soft' (deformable) variety, they pull out/push in through the hole in the interference-fit washer, no need to remove the latter, which aiui was the original intention of the design.

new damper o-rings
Regrettably, specifically the O-rings have long been known as a cause of stiction that badly-affects how the forks work over small bumps. :( Much better (but more expensive) are https://www.triumph-spares.co.uk/damper-valve-seal-conversion-1971-on-pair-97-4003p.

metalastic handlebar clamp bushes
fit new bushes (and new heminwashers etc), or convert the bars to solid mounts?
First off here, a warning - any new hemi washers must, must, must have the correct chamfer in both sides around the centre hole.

EDIT: Reason is, the eyebolts (should) have a small stress-relief radius between the 3/8" OD shank and the handlebar clamp, which the chamfer in the hemi washer clears. Without both the chamfer in the hemi washer and the radius on the eyebolt, the latter are well-known for breaking. :eek: So, if the old hemi washers don't have the indent, I advise new and then closely-inspected eyebolts too.

Then ... if "similar money", definitely the Metalastiks on a twin ... if they're the good-quality ones ... which you won't know 'til you've assembled everything and ridden with them ... :D

Longer explanation:-

. The Metalastiks are there to help prevent vibration reaching your hands and, depending how speedo 'n' tacho are mounted, them too. My T150 came to me with solid bushes and it's fine, but I wouldn't on a twin.

. If you fit the Metalastiks and you want to experiment with the feel of 'solid mounts', if you fit the hemi washers flat-side-against-the-bush, the rubbers are locked solid. Otoh, if you fit the "solid mounts" and you don't like 'em, you have to dismantle everything to fit the Metalastiks ... :(

. The one problem with the Metalastiks is the variable quality - the originals in my first T160 were fine; the early-1980's replacements I fitted in my second T160 were crap; better ones became available later but the internet forums say quality veers between good and crap depending when (and from whom) you buy.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Metalastiks (and washer direction experimentation it is, then. Thank you.

Interesting re the stiction on the o-rings. Are those rings you linked to a direct replacement for the o-rings?

Those interference fit washers were a git to remove so I wish I'd known it then lol. I did manage to extract the seals first, so they can be replaced with the washers in situ. I was also concerned how I'd get the new ones in with the stanchions in situ, as they are flippin tight. If I understand correctly then, I can pop the seals in, tap the washers home, then install the stanchion afterwards.
 

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This is IMHO very poor front suspension so you need every available help to make it more compliant.
Rings Stuart writes about are a must ( instead of o rings ), also I don't know about Stuart, but for me it works better with 5w fork oil than ATF. If you have original Trident springs ditch them ( they have bit of red paint in one end ) and use T140 springs.
Progressive springs were too stiff for me as well.
Perhaps I'm too old, or too used to my K75S now, but just did 250 km trip on a Trident and feel beaten with a baseball bat.
Aha, check very carefully how the front forks works after installing front fender - it has to work without any stiction and evenly on both sides.
 

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Hi Dan,

o-rings. Are those rings you linked to a direct replacement for the o-rings?
:nod They were originally made by Progressive Suspension (who are still the go-to for progressive springs). They're such a big improvement over the O-rings that, when Progressive decided to stop making 'em, one of LPW's previous owners took 'em on, and the current owners have continued.

interference fit washers
I can pop the seals in, tap the washers home, then install the stanchion afterwards.
:nod Ensure the stanchion end cap hexs. are deburred; lubricate with fork oil around the inside of the seal, bottom and part-way up the stanchion; work the seal gently over the stanchion end cap hex. and up the stanchion.

works better with
fork oil than ATF.
:agree I won't say what weight fork oil I use, because it's so wildly-different from everyone else (and I'm not particularly heavy), but it works for me.

Nevertheless, definitely fork oil rather than ATF, because fork oils are intermixable, so either simply changing 'em is easy or off-the-shelf weights can be mixed for intermediate weights for tuning. If changing or mixing off-the-shelf weights, stick to the same make, as the allegedly-same weight from different makers can actually be different ... :rolleyes: fwiw, I've always stuck with Bel-Ray.

If you have original Trident springs ditch them
and use T140 springs.
Progressive springs were too stiff for me
Perhaps I'm too old, or too used to my K75S now, but just did 250 km trip on a Trident and feel beaten with a baseball bat.
Otoh, Progressive springs (as in 'from Progressive Suspension', rather than from the well-know suspension experts, Ebay ...) work for me, albeit I was recommended to the twin springs even for the T160's.

The best mod. for these forks is one of the aftermarket damper head/rod conversions, but they're all spendy.

check very carefully how the front forks works after installing front fender - it has to work without any stiction and evenly on both sides.
You're less likely to have problems if you use a '75-on mounting (97-5058) and corresponding mudguard/fender. The '73/'74 'hoops' were a 'quick fix' for the '71/'72 problems and are pretty-much useless at keeping the sliders parallel with a single disc.

Metalastiks (and washer direction experimentation
Re-reading my earlier post, I realised I should've posted a better explanation of the hemi-washer chamfers, which I've now added.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #50
This is IMHO very poor front suspension so you need every available help to make it more compliant.
Rings Stuart writes about are a must ( instead of o rings )
Sounds like these are a no-brainer then. Ordering some tonight. :)


Ensure the stanchion end cap hexs. are deburred; lubricate with fork oil around the inside of the seal, bottom and part-way up the stanchion; work the seal gently over the stanchion end cap hex. and up the stanchion.
:thumb:

Re-reading my earlier post, I realised I should've posted a better explanation of the hemi-washer chamfers, which I've now added.
All makes sense, thank you. :thumb: Looking at my old P-clamps they have seen better days, and I've seen a supplier offering new clamps with the metalastic bushes, and hemi-washers, plus all the correct spacers, rubber washer etc, as a complete set.

https://www.feked.com/triumph-bsa-handlebar-p-clamp-assembly-unf-thread-unit-500-650-750cc-1968-onwards.html

This appeals, as I've got one place to go back to if there's any issues putting it together. It also doesn't help that I have none of these components are in my fastener bags, so I don't think the clamps were 'correctly' installed in the first place. It's a while since I took the handlebars off, but I don't remember seeing anything like that number of pieces around the P-clamp threads. Anyway, it will be done properly when I reassemble.
 

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Hi Dan,

https://www.feked.com/triumph-bsa-handlebar-p-clamp-assembly-unf-thread-unit-500-650-750cc-1968-onwards.html
This appeals, as I've got one place to go back to if there's any issues putting it together.
Hmmm ... never actually used Feked: they're one of the new 'dealers' who've sprung up since Meriden's demise; they're a 'Wassell bits dealer'; t'internet reports say quick to take your money and supply, not-so-quick to fix problems and/or refunds. :(

No idea what their technical knowledge is like but the parts-assembled pictures are incorrect - in 'normal' use, the domed side of the hemi washers is towards the bush(es) (how they're shown in the pictures is how you'd assemble 'em to get the feel of 'solid bushes'). To be strictly-fair, we don't know the pictures were intended to be instructional ... but imho Murphy's Law applies ...

Fwiw, my go-to dealers are, in no particular order, L.P. Williams, Hawkshaw, TMS and Grin.

will be done properly when I reassemble.
Fwiw, while you can hammer the Metalastiks into the yoke, unless you have the Special Tool, if you don't hit the outer sleeve only every time, you risk ripping the rubber between the sleeves ... :Darn For this reason, I prefer to press 'em in - bench vice, socket the same OD as the outer sleeve, something to protect the paint/powder-coat on the other side of the yoke from the vice jaw and :thumb

Hth.

Regards,
 

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As others have said, that Metalastik bush is a bit hit and miss. (And very tight to get in and out). I fettled a '73 non-runner TR7RV earlier this year and changed the bushes, and the cup washers etc. Didn't get them from Feked though. The bushes were useless - way too floppy - the bars fell under their own weight to full deflection.

After a bit of research I found someone promising that his bushes were stiffer, as they should be. I bought a pair and fitted those - and they are perfect.

FWIW, to get the old bushes out I drilled out the centre metal sleeve - or part-drilled; once they get hot they fall out. I then had to take a Junior hacksaw to the outer metal sleeve and carefully 'relieve' the bush until it loosened and then pushed out. I cleaned up the bores in the top yoke with a sanding drum on a Dremel, and put the new bushes in the freezer for a couple of hours. I also cleaned up the outside of the new bushes with some emery. Even then, they are a very tight fit. I drifted them in - there's no way I could get a bolt strong enough to be able to wind them in.

Not a job I'd want to do again.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Thanks both.

I hammered the old ones out using an old socket of the right size to bear on the outer ring only. They came out without too much of a fight. I'll press the new ones in with the vice, using the same socket. Great tip on the freezer though - I'll try that. :)

The quality of modern parts does seem to be a bit of a lottery. I remember my uncle telling me similar with his Austin A30 restoration. I'll probably try the Feked set, and see how I go. I'm on holiday from tomorrow for a week, so will look at it when I get back. :)

Thanks for all the tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #54 (Edited)
Sorry for the lack of updates. Had a holiday and then a busy period of work, so progress has been a bit slower than I would like.

I have the forks rebuilt with the new stanchions and leakproof seals, plus the Teflon damper seal /o-ring replacement kit from Williams. And of course new oil (I used 15W fork oil instead of ATF, 200cc per side). This may or may not be the right weight, but given removing the forks again doesn’t fill me with dread with all new fasteners fitted that I know I can undo again, I’m more than happy to tweak once the bike is running.

I wasn’t happy with the fit of the springs I bought (they didn’t sit very well on the seat on the inner surface of the top plug, so I was worried about the other end too), so I have re-used the originals which looked to be in good shape. They had been sitting in plenty of oil all those years, and the old seals were intact, so after a wipe down with GT85 and a clean rag, they looked like new. The fork reassembly was painless, and it all went back together nicely. The forks feel smooth in operation when compressed against the floor with body weight, with no apparent binding, and no leaks. My first thought is they may be a little soft, but given I’m going to have to ride it before I know for sure, and any tweaks now may be in vain as a result, I’m happy to call it done for now, and potentially revisit.

The new roller bearing outer races are installed in the frame. I used the freezer tip and the top one went in nicely with a couple of sharp, square taps with a rubber mallet. The bottom one was trickier and I ended up fabricating a press with a length of threaded rod, two nuts, an old socket and some washers (I used the old interference washers from the previous fork seals) through the headstock and tightened the lower nut to press the race in. After some grunting and swearing, two bent washers, and a lot of sweat, it went in without damage or marks. The bottom roller tapped nicely on to the lip on the bottom yoke with a bit of care, and a test fit and “nip up” showed a nice tight fit between the top race and the stem nut. There’s no play, and the steering action feels nice and smooth with no roughness or notches. Stupidly, I had forgotten to order a new stem nut, and the old one is rusty and looks awful, so I can’t reassemble and torque it all down until the new one arrives (this week sometime).

The new metalastic bushes are now installed in the top yoke. The vice and socket trick worked a treat for installing them, and the whole job took about 5 minutes. One of those rare jobs where I expected a fight, and didn’t get one. So often it’s the other way round, so I’ll take that 🙂

The old headlamp ear mounting rubbers cleaned up well enough to reuse, but I have a new mounting kit (the four small bolts, washers and rubber spacers) ready to fit. I also have a new Lucas headlamp shell and rim ready to fit. The old beam unit can be reused as it is in good condition, as are the rim retaining clips.

The only other thing I can do in the interim is get the P clamps installed on to the new handlebars. The original distance pieces are in good nick and will be reused. I have new clamps, which came with the various spacers and spherical washers.

Hopefully by the weekend, I should have the forks, yokes, headlamp mounts and handlebars all fitted, and the poor old girl starting to bear a vague resemblance to a motorcycle again.

Will post some pics when reassembly commences.

Also took some time to have a clear out and get rid of some stuff including the rusty handlebars, fork stanchions and various other parts that I’m not going to reuse as well as boxes and bags of junk. I now have a bit more space to work. A trip to the tip has left the garage looking a bit less cluttered.
 

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The only other thing I can do in the interim is get the P clamps installed on to the new handlebars.
As above, I've replaced the Metalastik bushes (twice) on my 73 TR7RV and both times the 'bars end with a 'twist', i.e. they aren't straight. I've double-checked that I have the P clamp components in the right way. I've done the backing off of all fasteners, bounced the forks the progressively re-tightened from the bottom up. No matter how much care I take, the bars still end up pointing slightly to the right, and yet the top yoke looks dead straight.

A few days ago I saw someone (on here I think) saying that this is a common problem, but I can't see how to fix it. Did you get your bars straight or is there a fix that I'm missing to get the bars straight when the forks appear to be? The 'bars are definitely skewed compared to the top yoke.
 

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A few days ago I saw someone (on here I think) saying that this is a common problem, but I can't see how to fix it. Did you get your bars straight or is there a fix that I'm missing to get the bars straight when the forks appear to be? The 'bars are definitely skewed compared to the top yoke.
Hmmm.. sounds like a pain. I'm still waiting on the new stem nut to turn up before I can bolt everything back together (I'll fit the bars to the top yoke after the yokes are installed), so I don't know just yet. All I've done so far is put the clamps onto the bars, which doesn't tell me much at this point. I'll update you once I've got the bars on.

Like you, I can't see how this sort of skew could arise given the holes for the bushes in the top yoke are parallel and the top yoke and bottom yoke are aligned by the forks clamped through both. I noticed when fitting the metalastiks to the yoke that there is a fair bit of leeway in the vertical position of the metalastiks relative to the yoke holes (mine both looked good individually, but there was a subtle difference when compared), but this would skew the bars vertically rather than axially as you describe.

The only other possible way I can think this would occur (assuming the bars are straight of course) is if the inner metal part of one of the metalastiks is not perfectly centred in the outer part, which could potentially alter the fore/aft resting position of the bar on one or both sides relative to the yoke. But this feels like a bit of a long shot, and I would have thought it would have needed to be quite a way out to give a noticeable skew. Might be worth measuring the inner to outer metal clearance on the metalastiks at 90 degree intervals though as a quick, cheap (free) exercise.

I'll update you once mine is back together.
 

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Hi,

I've replaced the Metalastik bushes (twice) on my 73 TR7RV and both times the 'bars end with a 'twist', i.e. they aren't straight. I've double-checked that I have the P clamp components in the right way. I've done the backing off of all fasteners, bounced the forks the progressively re-tightened from the bottom up. No matter how much care I take, the bars still end up pointing slightly to the right, and yet the top yoke looks dead straight.
I can't see how this sort of skew could arise
The only other possible way I can think this would occur
is if the inner metal part of one of the metalastiks is not perfectly centred in the outer part,
You're both expecting far too much precision - count the number of components between the front wheel and the handlebars, bear in mind there's a small clearance each time one component has to fit with another.

The inner and outer metal sleeves of a Metalastik bush are spaced apart by rubber, "the inner metal part" cannot possibly be "perfectly centred in the outer"; the whole point of the Metalastik is the interference-fit of the bush outer in the yoke means they move together, but the rubber separating the inner means it doesn't move the same as the outer; otherwise, how would the Metalastik not transmit vibration?

bars
pointing slightly to the right,
how to fix
Stand astride the front wheel facing the bike, hold the front wheel tightly between your knees, grasp each 'bar grip tightly in one hand, pull the twistgrip end of the 'bars towards you, push the other end of the 'bars away from you ... 'til the 'bars are basically at right-angles to the rest of the bike.

Hth.

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #58
OK the front end is all back together. I’m happy with the result, especially considering I’ve reused almost every part that came off the bike, apart from the handlebars, stanchions and fasteners. I decided against using gaiters in the end, partly because the bike came without them, and partly because I like the contrast of the stanchions with the now black shrouds and headlamp brackets. I know gaiters serve a practical purpose, but given the bike isn’t going to be covering big mileages, and I’m happy to fettle, I’ve decided to take the risk.

I reassembled the Metalastik bushes according to the parts manual, and the bars are straight, and don’t feel like they have excessive play. I’ve got a new headlamp shell ready to fit but stupidly ordered the wrong bolts. The right ones will be here on Friday. The replacement spacers are also too small, so will clean up the old ones and refit for now so I can move on with the project. It’s the work of minutes to swap them out at a later date if needed.

Next step is to refit the swingarm and put some new shocks on. I was going to go Hagon, but wondered if anyone had any view on Wassell items. They are significantly cheaper, and I know you get what you pay for (and have used Hagon to good effect on other bikes), but thought I’d ask.

Anyway, this is how she sits as of tonight. I appreciate the way I’m doing this won’t be to all tastes, but my goal from the start is a safe, reliable and tidy looking rider. It was never a good starting point for a “correct” restoration.

I’ve also added a comparison pic as a reminder... 🙂

Really appreciate all the good advice, help and encouragement. I’ll keep the updates coming.
 

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Hi,
Stand astride the front wheel facing the bike, hold the front wheel tightly between your knees, grasp each 'bar grip tightly in one hand, pull the twistgrip end of the 'bars towards you, push the other end of the 'bars away from you ... 'til the 'bars are basically at right-angles to the rest of the bike.
:grin2: That takes me back to straightening the handlebars on a bicycle when you've been over the top! Thx Stuart - I'll give that a go. I was thinking that there must be some 'engineering' method of correcting this - but maybe not!

I've got used to the skew - but It would be nice to have it right.

Andy
 

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OK the front end is all back together.
That looks rather familiar, and rather nice too! My Tiger 750 has a 71 T120R OIF frame - the front end is identical. Awaiting further progress with great interest.

My 750 will come to bits shortly for a cosmetic restoration - all the black bits will be powder coated, and the engine apart for some Helicoils and a general furtle to see what condition it's in. Oh, and fix the oil leaks. It's a bike repatriated from Toronto last winter.

I think I'll get some new P clamps when I rebuild to see if that helps with the handlebar skew.
 
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