[Hubbarocks]

Howdy y'all,
new to the forums. Good info I've found on here regarding older bikes so I'd thought I'd share my current build of my personal bike.

A little history on this turd; my long time friend had this bike he got from his uncle. He's moved it to 3 different houses and 4 kids later. I had just finished a resto build for someone on a 1979 sporty he was admiring, so he tells me - you can have this triumph, I'll never do anything with it, just make it chop it and make it cool. Needless to say, I was stoked , he didn't want anything for it as it didn't run and had some left over pieces in buckets. I gave him a Ben Franklin and a bottle of Jack for the title and dug it out of his shed.

i intend on a budget build so trying not spend much money on this as i have race cars and a wife that takes most of my money I've built plenty of show worthy bikes and cars, i wanted a rat bike , this was the perfect candidate! & once word got out to my friends i got my hands on this Triumph, I've actually received quite a bit of donation parts that guys wanted to git rid of, as well as a 1970 T120 someone wants me to restore now...

i started getting into it this winter & here is the story...

 

[Hubbarocks]

how i found it, bringing home for inspection.
the dog even pitched in

 

[Hubbarocks]

My friend unfortunately didn't have much info on this bike he got from his uncle and uncle is now deceased we had to figure most out by researching the inter webs.

they had some late model bars with internally wired controls that was mostly a nest of wirey mess! Lucas ignition, aftermarket intake manifold and late model MKII carbs. Obviously I'm sure you've noticed the aftermarket forks (6" over) among other surprises i found hear and there. I invested in two maintenance manuals and found parts manual online to start tearing it down.

forming a plan of action; i wanted to get it to run before i did anything else. With a known running engine everything else would fall into place for the build. SO! lets get some gas to it!

I first rebuilt the carbs with a reseal kit. i had to do my homework on these AMAL carbs, pretty simple stuff.

 

[Hubbarocks]

Now that the carbs were rebuild and functional . Next is getting sparkys to the cylinders. i never trust old wiring. I decided start from scratch and get a new ignition module, voltage regulator, plugs wires, coils, etc. all relatively inexpensive i think less then $300 for everything new and eliminate everything else not needed. So next i completely removed all wiring minus the alternator and headlights from the bike & installed everything new.

to me it's worth getting all that new instead of trying to determine "what" was on it, "how" it works and "IF" it was functioning correctly.

the handle bar mess had to go too, i didn't even want to look at it. someone gave me a set up 7/8" Z bars with a 4" riser i happily installed with new grips & original style handles. below it the new mess & i'm loving these bars. i think i'll keep em

 

[Hubbarocks]

here is the old bar set up , no idea what it was off of. (i spotted the Harley mirrors though! i may reuse?) every thing said Lucus so i'm guess late model controls from the 70's ?? I put it in the pile to sell at the next swap meet or hang em on the garage wall...

maybe someone recognizes them ?

 

[Wunram]

seems to be a pretty determined process - go on, waiting for the next episode

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

old bar set up
every thing said Lucus so i'm guess late model controls from the 70's ?

Earliest they could be is '75, fitted to the electric-start Norton Commando. Triumph fitted 'em '79-on. However, their wiring wasn't ever inside the 'bars as standard, someone worked hard to do that.

I put it in the pile to sell at the next swap meet

trying not spend much money on this as i have race cars and a wife that takes most of my money

Ummm ... you might want to go to Ebay, enter "lucas 187sa" in the Search box, note how much one pair of castings (no internals) is selling for, note also that Ebay doesn't return any links to any complete switch clusters, right or left?

Link to a complete original Lucas right-hand switch cluster (note price?) although that isn't original for a Notrun, it's late (early 1980's) Triumph (the "ENGINE STOP" switch is the giveaway).

Note also even Mitch doesn't have an original left-hand cluster, link to a (Sparx) replica left-hand switch cluster.

Unmolested genuine Lucas switch clusters are rocking-horse crap ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Hubbarocks]

hi Stuart,
thanks for the info on the bars. they seriously did pack all that wiring thru 7/8" bars! i'll get some more pics of the controls & compare. i appreciate the heads up. They do look really close to those , but i dont remember 100%. i'll check it out.

also ... i truly laughed out loud about "rocking-horse-crap" no idea what that means but it made me laugh

 

[Pat350]

Crying out to be a "desert sled" project that, there's enough crap choppers out there!

 

[StuartMac]

every thing said Lucus
View attachment 780907

I've two of the left-hand one in your photo. above. I've also two of the corresponding right-hand one with the electric-start button. Thankfully, I've had 'em long enough to have paid only a small fraction of $450 for 'em ...

The only difference possibly in the right-hand one you've taken off your bike is it doesn't have the green electric-start button? When Triumph fitted the clusters in '79, the bikes didn't have electric starters, so Lucas left out the switch internals, left what would've been a hole in the casting blanked-off.

"rocking-horse-crap" no idea what that means

The full phrase is "rarer than rocking-horse sh1t" but "sh1t" spelled correctly would be turned into "****" by the Forum hate-speech monitor and we aren't supposed to try and beat it by posting "misspelled profanity". But "crap" is OK for the Forum hate-speech monitor ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Hubbarocks]

Crying out to be a "desert sled" project that, there's enough crap choppers out there!

Maybe across the pond there is plenty, but in Milwaukee Wisconsin there is not much for even Harley choppers anymore and the occasional rice chop. Pretty rare to see anything else around these parts on the road around here besides HD baggers to be honest. I'm sure someone's got one in their garage besides me lol

 

[Hubbarocks]

Here are some close ups on the controls. Stuart had it right and the starter button is omitted.
They are pretty patina i thought. I just have no interest in them

i am curious what is "Piolet / Head " function on the switch ?

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

View attachment 781044
View attachment 781045
View attachment 781046
View attachment 781047

If both have "LUCAS" cast into the bottoms, in the US they're very late '78 or early '79 T140E (the Pozidrive screws and 3-position "ENGINE STOP" are the giveaways), someone'll pay good money for 'em.

If you decide to sell, ime don't be tempted to pull 'em apart to clean 'em, they're full of almost-irreplaceable tiny balls, springs and bits of plastic ready to launch into another space-time continuum.

If advertising online:-

. remove the drum-brake lever from the right-hand cluster (the lever's also saleable, especially if you have the cable adjuster);

. highlight any damage that's been done mounting the drum-brake lever (all four holes/threads in the cluster should be the same, they're for mounting the standard front disc-brake master cylinder);

. show the terminals at the ends of the wires (hopefully they're still the original bullet terminals?).

curious what is "Piolet / Head " function on the switch ?

It's mis-labelled.

As standard, the switch clusters were fitted with a 4-position ignition switch, one position of which was 'ignition+lights'; in that position, the tail lamp and pilot lamp (small, low-power bulb mounted in the headlamp reflector) were on, power was supplied to the "PILOT - HEAD" switch, then pushing that to "HEAD" turned on the headlamp. So it's really just a headlamp on/off switch.

However, it was all gloriously irrelevant in the US ... As of 1st January 1978, you'd had a FMVSS that mandated lights-on-with-ignition; Lucas designed the '79-on wiring so, with just a simple connection change inside the headlamp shell (standard wiring connections are inside the headlamp shell), headlamp came on with ignition, the "PILOT - HEAD" switch was bypassed completely ...

There's a likely reason for the mis-labelling, has to do with these switch clusters were developed from an earlier pair, but the details are probably a reasonable insomnia cure ...

Hth.

Regards,

 

[GrandPaulZ]

There is a small "pilot" bulb in the side of the headlight shell, and the main "head" light bulb.

The pilot light can be used for daytime running or as a parking light.

 

[newsh]

And Piolet is French for Ice Axe

 

[Hubbarocks]

"piolet"

no i cannot spell for beans, but i did stay at a holiday inn last night

There is no doubt you guys know your stuff , very appreciative of the information. I do enjoy learning about bikes i green too.

 

[Hubbarocks]

So, good news is I got it started and timed best i could without a strobe light. Seem to run okay but LOUD as heck with those drag pipes. They have to go, they look cool but .....

I did not time exactly just yet , which I'll do before i finish. I wasn't lucky enough to get one with the inspection hole. I barrowed the one from the 1970 T120R i have on hand , but wouldn't fit. found out that the primary drive chain was 3 pc on my TR6 vs. the T120R 2 section chain. So the covers where not interchangeable. Lucky me ... I checked the parts manual and maintenance manuals and they both show a 2 pc was standard , which leaves me to believe i may have an aftermarket drive ?? i'll get some pics and show you guys of each. just found it odd.

with that being said, it start and I adjusted the carbs so it idles etc. It'll be some additional work to get it running well but it was 10 degrees out and i was tired . I had a little video but i cannot seem to up load it. So I captured a screen shot for you. 🤷‍♂️ you can just make the noises yourself

 

[StuartMac]

Hi,

started and timed best i could without a strobe light.
wasn't lucky enough to get one with the inspection hole. I barrowed the one from the 1970 T120R i have on hand , but wouldn't fit. found out that the primary drive chain was 3 pc on my TR6 vs. the T120R 2 section chain. So the covers where not interchangeable. Lucky me ... I checked the parts manual and maintenance manuals and they both show a 2 pc was standard , which leaves me to believe i may have an aftermarket drive ?

Uh-uh, something odd going on.

Triplex chain was standard on Triumph twins from '73. However, the wider chain and engine sprocket can't just be pushed on to an earlier crank, the crank isn't then long enough for the alternator rotor; '73-on, Triumph extended that end of the crank. The alternative is someone cobbled up a special rotor securing nut to reach through the rotor centre to the shorter crank - show us yours?

'68 was the first year the big primary cover had the separate smaller circular cover just over the alternator rotor for strobe timing. Ime, Triumph never made succeeding primary covers narrower, always wider, so I don't get that an apparently-pre-'68 cover (without the smaller cover) will fit over the triplex primary but a "'70" cover (with the smaller cover) won't ...?

One possibility is it's the '70 T120's cover that's aftermarket - because they get trashed when bikes are dropped on that side and it's a bit that fits both 650's and 750's, batches of covers have been produced time-to-time by various pattern spares makers. I know some 750 owners have had problems fitting some pattern covers because some makers haven't given enough attention to internal clearances between cover and triplex primary; possibly the narrower duplex primary avoids this problem?

'73 and '74, Triumph produced batches of both 650 and 750 twins, later 650's having more and more 750 components. Absent a special alternator rotor securing nut, educated guess says a PO rebuilt the engine with a '73-on crank and primary drive, happened to find the original primary cover still fitted over the triplex primary bits? Good news for you if you want a primary cover with the alternator rotor cover, a 750 cover should fit.

Hth.

Regards,

 

[Hubbarocks]

you sir a true testament to Triumph scholars

Triumph extended that end of the crank. The alternative is someone cobbled up a special rotor securing nut to reach through the rotor centre to the shorter crank - show us yours?

i'll get some pictures of both.

 

[WanSalim]

Calmly reading everything about this with a cup of tea. Please keep it updated