[Red Baron]

Well I got my '17 Thruxton R back from the dealership on Saturday. They rebuilt the front calipers and replaced the master cylinder after replicating the issue (stated on the invoice). The parts listed on the invoice were Triumph parts, and the pistons were the standard OEM grey pistons. The brake feel was marginally improved, but I can tell it was more from having put new pistons and seals in and 'resetting' the piston position than an actual fix - similar to what would have happened if I'd just moved the pistons out, cleaned and lubed them. I'm guessing a few miles down the road and some brake pad wear and I'll be right back where I started.

My initial squeeze on the brake did not go as far to the handlebar as when I dropped it off, but still travelled more than I would expect. A second quick squeeze (that double pump we're all talking about) was marginally firmer, so the symptoms are still there.

Not like I had anything to lose, I don't ride it much in the winter and they covered everything on warranty. Not overly upset with the dealer or service department, they did what they could. I made it clear when I dropped it off that replacing the original pistons with new OEM wasn't going to work. But the service department is limited by what they are allowed to do. They're only going to replace OEM with OEM when doing warranty work. Until an actual recall is issued for a defective design, this is what we're getting from Triumph.

Time to rebuild it right myself with the proper parts. Thanks to everyone on here who has contributed to finding the true root cause and proper fix to the brake issue. Looking forward to having the premium brake system that I paid for when I bought the bike new. Hopefully one day the guys at Triumph or Brembo will figure it out.

Please save the invoice. Once I decide to move with the legal letter, could I get an invoice copy with your personal info redacted, if you don't mind? I would use it as evidence of what Triumph is doing and their crazy request for me to returning to OEM.
Thanks

 

[stneckel]

Please save the invoice. Once I decide to move with the legal letter, could I get an invoice copy with your personal info redacted, if you don't mind? I would use it as evidence of what Triumph is doing and their crazy request for me to returning to OEM.
Thanks

Got it by email, so no problem. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

 

[apt_philly]

Dropped my 2016 ThuxtonR off at my local triumph dealer last weekend, for one last attempt at fixing the inconsistent bite point for the brembo front brakes, after going over this with the dealer 3 times under warranty and once last summer at my 20K service. I purchased the braketech stainless race caliper pistons and my plan was to do full caliper clean and rebuild with the braketech pistons, new seals, full fluid flush and if still necessary swap out the master with a brembo rcs19 corsa corta. Bypassing ABS would be a last resort and not something really wanted to do.

And then Triumph NA called in response to my NHTSA filing.

First off my, besides not being able to resolve this problem, I am super happy with my local service team and they were enthusiastic to work with triumph to try to get this fixed. Bike is still in the shop but I got a status update this weekend. First they confirmed the problem and agreed it is awful. The next step surprised me. They ran new brake lines from the master to the caliper, bypassing all my existing brake lines and the abs module. Apparently with this change, the problem is completely gone. Next step is to replace all the brake lines and test with ABS still in the loop. If the problem comes back they will replace the ABS module and retest.

This makes me think there may be more than one problem with the braking system, which is why we see so many people saying different actions fix/don't fix their problems. Once it comes back, regardless of outcome, I still want to install the race pistons...

 

[stneckel]

Strange that Triumph NA is getting involved in all these so-called fixes, yet the methodology is different in each case. Sort of disconcerting that a single strategy to troubleshoot and find a root cause is not being employed.

My dealer rebuilt the calipers and replaced the master cylinder, did nothing to investigate the ABS. But they also said after the work was done that the problem was gone, which it is not. I know my motorcycle, and I know the difference in pressure between 2 consecutive brake pulls, and even in the first few miles I rode after getting it back I can tell the issue is still present, though less than before. It's likely not as bad because they disassembled everything in the caliper, essentially resetting the 'home position' of the piston, if you could call it that.

The real test is whether the problem comes back after a reasonable amount of mileage - enough to have brake pad wear. A squeeze or two in the dealer's workshop is likely not enough to say the problem is gone. Looking back at some of the early posts there was some measure of short lived success by cleaning and lubing OEM pistons and reassembling. But the problem always came back.

Not saying that the ABS is not an issue - it could be. I hope they do find something, because my dealer certainly did not. They just shotgunned solutions and said, "All better!" and sent me on my way. Keep us informed of their progress, Philly! I'm going to install the race pistons too - but if there are additional issues with the system we all need to know.

 

[Jeevs]

Dropped my 2016 ThuxtonR off at my local triumph dealer last weekend, for one last attempt at fixing the inconsistent bite point for the brembo front brakes, after going over this with the dealer 3 times under warranty and once last summer at my 20K service. I purchased the braketech stainless race caliper pistons and my plan was to do full caliper clean and rebuild with the braketech pistons, new seals, full fluid flush and if still necessary swap out the master with a brembo rcs19 corsa corta. Bypassing ABS would be a last resort and not something really wanted to do.

And then Triumph NA called in response to my NHTSA filing.

First off my, besides not being able to resolve this problem, I am super happy with my local service team and they were enthusiastic to work with triumph to try to get this fixed. Bike is still in the shop but I got a status update this weekend. First they confirmed the problem and agreed it is awful. The next step surprised me. They ran new brake lines from the master to the caliper, bypassing all my existing brake lines and the abs module. Apparently with this change, the problem is completely gone. Next step is to replace all the brake lines and test with ABS still in the loop. If the problem comes back they will replace the ABS module and retest.

This makes me think there may be more than one problem with the braking system, which is why we see so many people saying different actions fix/don't fix their problems. Once it comes back, regardless of outcome, I still want to install the race pistons...

Sorry to say Philly, but they've basically just tested a brand new brake bleed on lines direct from MC to caliper. Of course they're going to think they've addressed the issue.

They've confirmed that the calipers and MC work. Good. I can understand the method they've taken but they're ignoring the fact that the issue returns over time after bleeding the brakes, and also the normal fluid displacement conditions for the MC piston with the full brake system installed.

Can you ask them to confirm that they've at least disassembled the calipers to inspect the pistons? Maybe some photo evidence?

I know asking probably feels like looking the gift horse in the mouth, but these guys need to be more thorough

 

[apt_philly]

Sorry to say Philly, but they've basically just tested a brand new brake bleed on lines direct from MC to caliper. Of course they're going to think they've addressed the issue.

They've confirmed that the calipers and MC work. Good. I can understand the method they've taken but they're ignoring the fact that the issue returns over time after bleeding the brakes, and also the normal fluid displacement conditions for the MC piston with the full brake system installed.

Can you ask them to confirm that they've at least disassembled the calipers to inspect the pistons? Maybe some photo evidence?

I know asking probably feels like looking the gift horse in the mouth, but these guys need to be more thorough

I don't know exactly what they have done, i just know they were excited to find something that appears to work. Last summer I did have calipers removed and cleaned (no new seals, pistons not fully removed). I intend to let them follow though with whatever process Triumph wants them to do (while it is cold and icy!) and if it is still not resolved I will install the braketech pistons and new seals. Maybe triumph will figure something out if they work on a couple dozen of our bikes this winter. I still think they need to be holding brembo responsible for this at some level.

 

[Jeevs]

I don't know exactly what they have done, i just know they were excited to find something that appears to work. Last summer I did have calipers removed and cleaned (no new seals, pistons not fully removed). I intend to let them follow though with whatever process Triumph wants them to do (while it is cold and icy!) and if it is still not resolved I will install the braketech pistons and new seals. Maybe triumph will figure something out if they work on a couple dozen of our bikes this winter. I still think they need to be holding brembo responsible for this at some level.

I really hope they get it resolved for you. It's a bit frustrating to read the method implemented for route cause discovery but I guess you need to let them follow the bouncing ball that triumph throws.

Totally agree there needs to be some accountability from somewhere.

 

[novaman64]

Just follwoing along, this is a issue I have wiht my 19' RS as well, debating taking it to the dealer. Also thinking about just bypassing the ABS (I always disable it anyways), and see if that makes a difference.

 

[apt_philly]

i wanted to follow back up here after having TNA and my local dealer work on the double pull issue back in February. After they had my bike for a few weeks, they just ended up replacing the brake line between the mc and the abs pump. I was pretty skeptical that it could be something so simple. I didnt understand how it could possible be causing the wide variation in brake response I was experiencing, yet all I can say is so far, so good. I will definitely follow up as north america riding season progresses and i rack up some miles, but right now I am super happy with the outcome.

 

[Terry Colley]

Ho

..........they just ended up replacing the brake line between the mc and the abs pump. I was pretty skeptical that it could be something so simple.........

You're right to be sceptical. Hocus pocus I'm afraid. The soft initial pull requiring a second pull will be back soon. Sorry. At least they didn't just fob you off.

 

[apt_philly]

Ho


You're right to be sceptical. Hocus pocus I'm afraid. The soft initial pull requiring a second pull will be back soon. Sorry. At least they didn't just fob you off.

if it comes back, i still have the braketech pistons to install. Dont think i will want my bike sitting at the dealer during good riding weather. We shall see.

 

[apt_philly]

Ho


You're right to be sceptical. Hocus pocus I'm afraid. The soft initial pull requiring a second pull will be back soon. Sorry. At least they didn't just fob you off.

I am sad to report you were right. After about two months the double pull is back. Triumph wants me to bring it back to the shop, but I know they are slammed right now and it would be a real season killer. As much as I would like to take Triumph up on the offer to make it right, I think I am going to have to start replacing parts at which point I am sure they won't really be interested in working on it. I guess I would do it if I had another street bike or if Triumph would give me a loaner...

 

[Terry Colley]

If they're genuinely interested in finding a solution to the problem why not have them install the Braketech pistons you say you've already bought? What have you got to lose? Make sure they give you the pistons they remove and just keep them to hand.

 

[Jeevs]

I am sad to report you were right. After about two months the double pull is back. Triumph wants me to bring it back to the shop, but I know they are slammed right now and it would be a real season killer. As much as I would like to take Triumph up on the offer to make it right, I think I am going to have to start replacing parts at which point I am sure they won't really be interested in working on it. I guess I would do it if I had another street bike or if Triumph would give me a loaner...

You could always just request that they replace the piston seals and you'll supply the pistons with those you already have. It's not a big job and it eliminates the problem

I hope they help you get this sorted

 

[apt_philly]

You could always just request that they replace the piston seals and you'll supply the pistons with those you already have. It's not a big job and it eliminates the problem

I hope they help you get this sorted

I could definitely install the braketech pistons or a new master or bypass ABS (and i probably will do the pistons at this point) but it doesn't really help the greater community of people suffering with this problem for years except for provide another anecdotal data point of someone that is happy with brakes after spending several hundred dollars.

 

[RampantParanoia]

If the dealership put in the braketech pistons and have sight of the problem staying solved after several months then that will be fed back to Triumph, so it should benefit the wider community as it provides more evidence the stock pistons are insufficiently slidey.

 

[fredsprint]

Does it correspond to what we use to call mushy brakes? This two times braking seems different.

Regarding the mushy brakes which was so common on the 955 I solved that by replacing the caliper to caliper line w/ a second caliper to master cylinder line avoiding air to be trapped at the top of the caliper to caliper line. Second thing I did is removing pistons and cleaning thoroughly the inside of the calipers (mud) including the grooves. I didn't change the seals. One can note that each caliper can be split in two parts for the cleaning. I didn't experience such a problem on my GT (1050 - ABS) though.

Second possibility is: if the master cylinder is not stock and the diameter is lower we can imagine that the volume of displaced liquid is lower hence producing a lower caliper piston displacement. So the need of a two times braking. Reading the previous posts it doesn't seem to be the case here.

Still one thing remains: the way the dealer performed the braking liquid flush. I never bother to flush the ABS box (on my GT) but if done incorrectly maybe air can be trapped in it.

 

[Jeevs]

I could definitely install the braketech pistons or a new master or bypass ABS (and i probably will do the pistons at this point) but it doesn't really help the greater community of people suffering with this problem for years except for provide another anecdotal data point of someone that is happy with brakes after spending several hundred dollars.

Not sure I agree with you Philly. If you were to do each of these steps independently of each other, hopefully you would either see an issue, or work out which step helped improve the brakes or eliminated the problem. That would provide valuable information to others with the same issue

The more brakes that get pulled apart, more evidence is gathered, and more information is shared. Better for everyone.

I wish I had of just replaced the pistons and seals when I overhauled the brakes on my speedy. The condition of the pistons that came out pointed towards them being the culprits. But because I upgraded the MC at the same time I can't point the finger with 100% certainty.

 

[apt_philly]

Not sure I agree with you Philly. If you were to do each of these steps independently of each other, hopefully you would either see an issue, or work out which step helped improve the brakes or eliminated the problem. That would provide valuable information to others with the same issue

The more brakes that get pulled apart, more evidence is gathered, and more information is shared. Better for everyone.

I wish I had of just replaced the pistons and seals when I overhauled the brakes on my speedy. The condition of the pistons that came out pointed towards them being the culprits. But because I upgraded the MC at the same time I can't point the finger with 100% certainty.

I will definitely just replace the pistons before going all rcs19 corsa corta on things, but my point was that I dont think Triumph will figure out what is wrong if we go around implementing our own fixes. I do think the group of people on this forum experimenting on different things is super valuable though...

 

[novaman64]

So brought my MY 19' RS in for this issue. I purchased the bike as NOS in April of 2021. The dealer called Triumph, and the answer they got was that I had to pay the dealer for a brake bleed because the maintenance interval is 2 years, so it was already out of maintenance when I bought it (based on manufacturre date, not purchase). So I pad the dealer the $130 to bleed the front brake... They are claiming its fixed, I am picking it up tomorrow morning so we will see...