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EDIT: I just spoke to Santiago. He seems to be on top of the issue, but a lack of documentation is an issue. I am part of that problem as I don't see going to the dealer if they are not ready to fix the issue. I have a close friend that was a brake and suspension engineer for Delphi for 30 years, (now works at a smaller firm). He looked it over and said bleeding isn't going to fix it.

I did offer to have my bike shipped to Ohio for testing if the complaint goes that far.
That's great!!
I also offered my bike to go to Ohio, but mine is "fixed" for now.
Testing mine would be of no benefit, other than a comparison of how it should feel.
 

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........I have had the double pump issue to some degree since new (2016 thruxtonR), with various flushes, bleeds, cleanings giving temporary reprieves............. I came here is to see if anyone knows if there is a bolt on solution maybe using a higher spec brembo caliper. For example the thruxtonR TFC from 2020 used the M50 caliper (not sure if it has the same problems or not).
Red Baron, I know you have a particular interest in this topic having gone to considerable effort to find a solution.
It's interesting that apt_philly is curious enough to ask about the TFC version of the Brembo calipers. I'm not sure what prompted him to ask that. I will however share a snippet of a conversation at my local dealer in the company of a customer who had recently purchased a very expensive Rocket 3 TFC of all things. Mention was made of the soft first pull afflicting many Brembo M50 equipped Triumphs, to which the Triumph rep who was there said "you won't have that problem because the calipers they use for the TFC models are fitted with the race spec pistons". Not sure if I heard it correctly, maybe he was just talking up the TFC models so don't know if there is any credibility to it but it stuck in my mind and made me wonder. Is it possible that Brembo have different spec pistons (and seals?) available on a bespoke OEM basis?
 

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Red Baron, I know you have a particular interest in this topic having gone to considerable effort to find a solution.
It's interesting that apt_philly is curious enough to ask about the TFC version of the Brembo calipers. I'm not sure what prompted him to ask that. I will however share a snippet of a conversation at my local dealer in the company of a customer who had recently purchased a very expensive Rocket 3 TFC of all things. Mention was made of the soft first pull afflicting many Brembo M50 equipped Triumphs, to which the Triumph rep who was there said "you won't have that problem because the calipers they use for the TFC models are fitted with the race spec pistons". Not sure if I heard it correctly, maybe he was just talking up the TFC models so don't know if there is any credibility to it but it stuck in my mind and made me wonder. Is it possible that Brembo have different spec pistons (and seals?) available on a bespoke OEM basis?
[/QUOTE

that is not great to hear. I was hoping the M50's wouldn't have the same problems as the m4-32's and that I would be able to find some gently used ones since it is also a standard part on the speed twin.
 

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Red Baron, I know you have a particular interest in this topic having gone to considerable effort to find a solution.
It's interesting that apt_philly is curious enough to ask about the TFC version of the Brembo calipers. I'm not sure what prompted him to ask that. I will however share a snippet of a conversation at my local dealer in the company of a customer who had recently purchased a very expensive Rocket 3 TFC of all things. Mention was made of the soft first pull afflicting many Brembo M50 equipped Triumphs, to which the Triumph rep who was there said "you won't have that problem because the calipers they use for the TFC models are fitted with the race spec pistons". Not sure if I heard it correctly, maybe he was just talking up the TFC models so don't know if there is any credibility to it but it stuck in my mind and made me wonder. Is it possible that Brembo have different spec pistons (and seals?) available on a bespoke OEM basis?
I don't doubt it for a second. "Race Spec" sound like "BrakeTech", which is the pistons I installed.
It is known, that motorcycle manufacturers save money on OEM tires, by purchasing skinnier thread tires at a lower cost from their suppliers.
I didn't find an OEM caliper piston seals kit from Triumph, I had to go aftermarket for it. Once I measured the pistons and knowing the size, it helped me get the kit replacement for the Brembo M4 calipers. I wouldn't doubt that the seals are of inferior quality and/or the pistons themselves supplied to Triumph by Brembo.
I am 100% convinced that the pistons, with the rough surface and maybe too soft/hard/flexible??? seals, that makes for the obvious pad retraction/long pull of the brakes. I can tell you, that I felt it and saw it while fixing this issue.
As of today, all is good on my bike. Now that I said that, I have jinxed myself and tomorrow it will bottom out. LOL
 

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I don't doubt it for a second. "Race Spec" sound like "BrakeTech", which is the pistons I installed.
It is known, that motorcycle manufacturers save money on OEM tires, by purchasing skinnier thread tires at a lower cost from their suppliers.
I didn't find an OEM caliper piston seals kit from Triumph, I had to go aftermarket for it. Once I measured the pistons and knowing the size, it helped me get the kit replacement for the Brembo M4 calipers. I wouldn't doubt that the seals are of inferior quality and/or the pistons themselves supplied to Triumph by Brembo.
I am 100% convinced that the pistons, with the rough surface and maybe too soft/hard/flexible??? seals, that makes for the obvious pad retraction/long pull of the brakes. I can tell you, that I felt it and saw it while fixing this issue.
As of today, all is good on my bike. Now that I said that, I have jinxed myself and tomorrow it will bottom out. LOL
RB, which Brake Tech pistons did you purchase?...I don't see a Triumph application on their website.
 

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See on the chart the Brembo M4 Caliper, not the M4,32.
I verified my receipt for the part number.
Part # BT-CRP-BK4x
Thanks...I'll have to verify that my 2014 S3R has the same Brembos as yours.
Did you use stock seals or aftermarket?
 

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Forgive me, but can I assume the latest Speed with Stylema doesn't suffer this issue?
 

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Thanks...I'll have to verify that my 2014 S3R has the same Brembos as yours.
Did you use stock seals or aftermarket?
It appears to be that the 2014 is the same caliper as the 2015-17. Four pistons monoblock and ABS.

The seals I ordered came from Ebay England and are Brembo seals.
Triumph Speed Triple 1050 R Brembo front brake caliper seal rebuild kit 2016 | eBay

These are from the USA that I found not too long ago.

Also these are good.
Brembo High Performance Spare Part, Caliper, Piston and Seal Service Kit for M4 Caliper, 220A39710, 220988530, 220988550 - 205474773 - OPPRACING Products

Ask and you shall receive. ;-) Not bragging, but I have most answers on the topic. Few things in my life have bothered me more than this brake BS.
 

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Forgive me, but can I assume the latest Speed with Stylema doesn't suffer this issue?
I have not read or researched to find out this answer, but they might have a different mounting point.
Rotor size is the same 320mm and suspension is the same, but wheel being different might have a slight different offset for the rotors and/or the mounting holes of the caliper might be different too.
Bottom line is, I don't know is they suffer the soft pull or if they fit on 2015-17 models.
I did read on The Triumph Forum (British), that the 2019 RS model people have reported the same soft pull. I also read that their solution was to grease the pistons.
 

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Ask and you shall receive. ;-) Not bragging, but I have most answers on the topic. Few things in my life have bothered me more than this brake BS.
Thanks for the great info. I don't seem to have the exasperating brake problems that you have experienced but I think mine could be better, so I'm going to do the caliper pistons/seals and see if I can improve on their performance...22k miles plus on my bike.
 

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Forgive me, but can I assume the latest Speed with Stylema doesn't suffer this issue?
i was curious about that too, but to be fair not all of the older calipers are bad either. Some people seem to have problems and some people don't. And if you search across the forums, you will find it affects many different types of bikes.
 

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i was curious about that too, but to be fair not all of the older calipers are bad either. Some people seem to have problems and some people don't. And if you search across the forums, you will find it affects many different types of bikes.
Be that as it may, other manufacturers have addressed the issue by fixing it or recalling.
Triumph is not acknowledging the issue at all and is claiming that the owners are lying, since there is no evidence of it. This is what the DOT investigator told me about the guy he is dealing with in England from Triumph.
 

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i also found this kit for my bike: Brake Caliper Kit Thruxton R

which claims:

"Brake pads <sic pistons> with DLC coating. Permanently removes the problem of the migrating pressure point.
Price is for one brake.
Attention from model year / year of construction 2018 these brake pistons are already built into the Thruxton R ex works."

For the money, i think the ones you got from braketech would seem to be better, although these do include the required seals.
 

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Be that as it may, other manufacturers have addressed the issue by fixing it or recalling.
Triumph is not acknowledging the issue at all and is claiming that the owners are lying, since there is no evidence of it. This is what the DOT investigator told me about the guy he is dealing with in England from Triumph.
That's what he told me as well. They think we all got together and made this **** up on the forums. It doesn't help that most of us don't go to the dealership for service, (unless they are prepared to fix the issue). I don't think I have ever let anyone other than myself work on any of my bikes.
 

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We are all colluding by stating the same issue according to Triumph.
Being total strangers from different parts of the country and even in Britain too, but we all concocted this brake shaiza, because we have nothing better to do with our time. F'ing bastards!!!
 

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Just received the following letter. I have no receipts as I don't let dealers work on my bikes. I am going to offer to ship it to Ohio, however for testing.

Hello,



The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has officially opened an investigation on Triumph Motorcycle for loss of braking performance on certain 2016-2019 Triumph Thruxton and Speed Triple motorcycles . As an investigative follow-through, I am reaching out to Triumph owners that filed a complaint with our agency. Below are some questions we are asking consumers that filed a complaint with NHTSA. Please take a look and if you have the time NHTSA would appreciate a follow-up. Additionally, if there is more information you wish to share with NHTSA regarding your failure incident please do so.



  1. Do you still own the motorcycle?
  2. How often do you ride?
  3. How often has the brakes failed or feel spongy?
  4. Do you perform your own service updates or does the dealer?
  5. Did servicing the bike fix the braking issue?
  6. Do you have receipts for you visits to the dealers?
  7. If needed, would you allow NHTSA to ship you motorcycle to Ohio to our VRTC ( Vehicle Research Testing Center) for inspecting and testing? By responding to this (Yes) does not obligate you.







Thank you,

Santiago
 

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My reply below...

Santiago,



Thank you for following up!



1) I still own the bike



2)I ride it daily unless I need the space in my car, so approximately 10k miles per year on average. (Much less this year due to working from home often)



3)They feel spongy every time the lever is pulled for the first time. The pistons in the calipers are hanging. It is not a bleeding issue.



4) I do not have a dealer near me, and I do all my own service anyway



5) I have not serviced them other than bleeding the system as well as the master, which I do on all my vehicles regularly. The Brembos on other vehicles are solid as an oak. The Triumph, not so much.



6) No dealer receipts. I will bring it in for repair when they are committed to solving the actual issue.



7) You can absolutely take my bike and test it. As a racetrack instructor and paramedic, this issue needs to be resolved as soon as possible. Stopping a motorcycle capable of this much speed is life or death. I'll do whatever it takes.



Highest regards,
 
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