Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 20 of 89 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Add me to this list of double pump lever. I noticed this issue last few rides on my '17 S3R. Double pump to get nice firm lever feel.
Only 2K miles and out of warranty by time, on stock pads.
Also, bleed brakes at MC first, then at the caliper. I used the push/pull technique (pumping lever with an attached vacuum brake pump), but to no avail.
Will check pads, replace seals, clean pistons, bleed again and see if any improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I have search up and down since last night, but I can't find a seal kit only. They sell the seals with the pistons at a steep price.
Although it might be worth doing new pistons $157.80 per caliper, that is insanely crazy. This is to fix the brake feel, but maybe not a sure thing or only temporary fix.
Is this the only way???
Triumph PISTON & SEAL KIT, CALIPER Part # T2021458

Thinking furthermore, if the pistons are dirty and not sliding freely, the brake pad would have uneven wear. I can't believe, that they all went bad at the same time, so inclined to think it is the ABS system.

Ok, today (6/10/19) I bleed slowly all again, shook the braided line just in case, but to no avail. The issue is still present even with the bike off. So, it can't be the ABS acting, plus ABS can be disable temporarily; therefore not having any input on the braking system.
I pressed the brakes at the same time feeling with my finger the brake pads and you can feel the piston retracting almost immediately. I am going to bite the bullet and rebuild the 2K miles calipers and replace pads too. After, if no solution, I will take to a lawyer and weigh the options depending on the advise. This is total BS on a $15K bike. My 1988 Honda Hurricane has better brake FEEL, as well as the 2004 GSXR.
Yes, the S3R brakes better, but the scare factor is not worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I also approached it as a safety issue. Delayed stopping distance in emergency situations due to lack if pressure on the disc and no time to double pump in same situation. I actually also called Triumph and had them document my ticket with these safety concerns to put them on notice for any future liability due to braking issues that were not resolved satisfactorily.
I'm lazy today, please pass the number to call.
BTW, I got new Brembo pads and I'm waiting on the new caliper seals and pistons. They are on BO from Brembo I will save receipts for a future claim. Pretty sure I will talk to a lawyer after all is done. My bike has 1,982 miles and recently developed this crap, of course after warranty expired.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I do believe you, but, I will try it just for fun. I got nothing to lose until the new seals and piston arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
We should start a list of people affected by this issue.
I will talk to a lawyer and maybe we have a Class Action lawsuits to have it fixed.
In the meantime, I will call Triumph tomorrow to let them know the issue I am having.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I dropped this morning my 2017 S3R at the dealership now to start the process of sorting out. I asked the service guy to press on the lever and he said, "this is not normal".
It will be at least a week before they can touch it, since summer is very busy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Update
Triumph dealer bleed the brakes. They said: Air was probably in "the module". He explained that they hook and bleed with a machine (??).
Is this BS??? I don't know.
I'm basically repeating what they said. Brakes work fine now.
I flushed the brake system 4 times total prior to take it in. There was no chance of air getting in, since the reservoir never went past half way mark. I used lever pump and the vacuum tool to bleed. I am stomped at this mystery, that developed almost suddenly. No leaks detected on any banjo, caliper seals, hose junctions, MC or nipples. Hopefully they come out with a TSB for the soft brakes. In the meantime, I will ride and see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Hmm, seems like bleeding with a proper pump from the caliper-up to have a better shot at not leaving any air in that module. Baron, when you bled your lines yourself you did it from the top pumping with brake lever or from the calipers?
I pumped with the lever and released the nipple at the caliper.Then, I used the vacuum tool hooked to the caliper nipple and same thing, open/close the nipple and draw fluid.
Again, I am mental about keeping the reservoir 1/2 full, as to avoid ANY mistake of sucking air into the system. Total mystery to me this spongy BS brakes all of a sudden.
I think it will return. :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
My crossing finger and praying didn't work. After exactly a month and only 75 miles of riding, the soft first pull came back, but not as bad. So the "air in the module" is a crock of Shaiza.
Talked to Triumph HQ again and no promises made to cover it.
They will wait for the shop report before they say they will cover it. Bike has 2,051 miles, it is a 2017 and now out of the grace period. I reminded them, that although the soft brake service was done under it, it didn't work so it should in theory be covered. I told them I had to pay for the brake flush, for no cure. I will update again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Dealer called me to update: they have bleed the system for a second time now and want to keep for a few days. I said NP. Probably they are hoping a second bleed fixes their first bleeding from a month ago and 75 miles later???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Can't believe the dealer is persisting with continually bleeding the system. IT IS NOT AIR IN THE SYSTEM. You can show them my posts from page 3 of this thread (see also the posts from DEcosse) where we're trying to explain what's occurring. Of course your dealer will claim they are the 'professionals' and dismiss us as know nothing keyboard warriors.

Must be frustrating for you as a new owner.

If you're competent enough to perform a pad change yourself you can try this (yes, yes I realise your pads are nowhere near worn out, bear with me).

Go to a well stocked parts/accessory store and see if you can discern which brand of pad has the thickest amount of friction material. You might be able to work it out by looking at specs online. Try SBS, EBC, Ferodo, Brembo. They are probably all the exact same friction material thickness but if there's one a little thicker (even 0.25mm) buy them. Fit them and the problem will go away for quite a long time. Alternatively, but only do this if you're really competent and confident in what you're doing, you could try and fashion some stainless steel shims to go between the back of the pad and the pistons. You can get the shims from any car wrecker as many cars have these fitted as standard. You'll have to cut them to size of course so don't do this unless you understand what I'm trying to achieve.
Thanks Terry, I hear you loud and clear, plus I understand perfectly and never once doubted you. I have to die with the dealer as you know, since they are the "experts".
I already have the Brembo pads waiting to do what you say. I felt the OEM pads on the bike and after pressing the brakes, I can feel when they retract back into the caliper as you described. I have Titanium plates ready to be cut to size to help remedy the issue.
Having rebuild a couple of Rotary engines on my track car, dealt with turbo rebuilds, suspension upgrades and constant race pads replacements and many brake fluid flushings, the bike is a walk through the park. I do appreciate the concern, being that we are dealing with brakes and when giving an opinion/advice, we have to be very careful who's doing it and their level of knowledge/expertise.
I am waiting (B/O) on Brembo new caliper seals, to exhaust all option to fix/remedy this issue. Luckily, I have 2 other bikes to ride.
I will update, as Triumph concocts another Shaiza explanation about this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
All I can say everyone here with the issue needs to go on record by calling Triumph USA. They were friendly and receptive to me when I called, but they need to hear from all about this issues now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nugpop

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Almost 2 weeks now the bike has been at the Triumph dealer with no news. This indicates probably, they are trying to figure out the issue. I guess they don't read the forums or at least haven't read this thread. It would shed some light to the soft brake issue. Is Triumph USA headquarters hearing more of this issue and are working on a solution/recall/TSB???
Will report back when I hear from them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I have been watching this thread as I have the same problem. Mine may not be as severe as some. My bike is a 2016 S. I bought it new last August and it now has 2500 miles.

One thing I have noticed is that when stopping if I put steady pressure on the front brake I can feel the system “pumping up” or building pressure. It seems if I stay off the brakes, the pumped up feel will go away. My lever really does not have a soft feel like a Harley can get.
That is not normal, call Triumph USA and take it to the dealer for warranty service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Update:
After 3 weeks of "testing" the soft brake, brakes bled again and no air. The dealer, don't laugh, pointed to the AVS aftermarket levers as the culprit. They need to be brought out, so that it doesn't reach the handle bar when pressed. LOL, so at 59 yo. I have to grow longer fingers. What a crock of shaiza. I am not going to fight this, because it is obviously futile.
I will do new caliper seals and see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Found the "First Lever Pull feels soft" on the 959 Panigale Forum:

Pard posted: "My 959 is at the dealer and they noticed that the pistons at the calipers are not retracting after pressure is released as much as one would expect. They think this may be the cause of the soft brake feel. Ducati was informed of the finding and we await a reply."

Link to a recall from Ducati on defective Brake Master Cylinder.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/20...s-8000-motorcycles-brembo-front-brake-defect/

Even after all of the above, they still have a first lever soft pull.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I will give the folks at Brembo a call and see about a radial master. I will have to sell some of my car parts I squirreled away. I want new exhaust but brakes seem to be a better option. I don’t see a recall in our future.
Please post their response.
I will do new caliper seals and lubricate the pistons. Next, would be the master cylinder rebuild, if the seals don't improve the feel. I'm sick of having to accept this BS soft first pull. My 1988 Hurricane and 2004 GSXR have solid brakes on first pull every time, everyday, all year long, even with old brake fluid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
My suspicion as well, I think the sponginess happens when bike sits for a long period of time so logically micro bubbles accumulate at the master pump. I found a video that shows how to bleed the master without the $30 bleeder pump.
https://youtu.be/D6qNk78O_uo
Update: discernible “big” bubble came up at first pump, then small clusters of them at second and third steps (closing nipple and reopening) hopefully this will fix this nightmare.
Nothing new revealed in the video. This is how I have bleed my race car brakes and Speed 3R too, plus the pull/push technique, but to no avail.
I don't know how the dealer did it TWICE!!!, but the sponginess returns every time.
The logical explanation (already given) at the beginning of this thread is the reason.
Rebuilding the calipers with new seals is the ticket to try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
If the brakes are a close system, except for the top of the reservoir, then for air to get in, there must be a leak somewhere.
 
1 - 20 of 89 Posts
Top