[schultzboy]

hello all. been reading for a while but this is my first post.

i have tried searching around and have seen others with similar issues on older bikes (955's) but not too much from people with the newer generation.

my bike has a noticeable surging problem while riding. when sitting in neutral and idling everything seems to be fine, but under load (especially light load going through the neighborhood) the bike surges badly. From the feel of things it seems to surge worse at lower speeds with lower rpm's (2000-4000) but i think that it really is that it is just more noticeable there. at higher speeds and rpm's i can still feel it slitghtly but the bike feels smoother just because the surging is happening at a higher frequency.

I just changed the spark plugs yesterday to the NGK iridiums and took it out for a quick spin thinking that i had a bad plug. after looking at them that doesn't look like it was the problem as they all looked ok and only one was out of spec. going to be changing the air filter also but have to have a shop order it for me as nobody stocks it. (my triumph dealer is 1.5 hours away)

I have owned this bike since new and have loved it from the beginning. she now has almost 30k miles on her and i am looking forward to the next 30k. but if i can't get this surging issue figured out i'm afraid i will not be able to ride as much.

i'm thinking possibly the valves need to get checked. any other obvious things i should have looked at? i have a really great local mechanic that has no problems digging into it. but i'd like to have some suggestions before i just send him in blind.

thanks.

 

[Shovelstrokeed]

Surging can certainly be a symptom of valves in need of adjustment. It can also be a number of other things. Weak ignition coil(s), a wonky throttle position sensor, a bad O2 sensor or even a weak battery.

FWIW, unless pulling away from a stop, I almost never let my revs drop below about 3500 or so. I come from a long background of BMW twins which, in their later EFI incarnations, are prone to surging. As you noted, by keeping the revs up a bit, the effect is much less pronounced.

 

[1050STrider]

My '06 exhibited the same surging symptoms you describe, the low speed through the neighborhood surging and I took it to my dealer to have them check it out. They uploaded what was then the newest available tune from Triumph and it fixed the problem. It appears you do a lot of your own maintenance which is cool but if you are still running the stock tune you may want to take it in and get the tune updated. I do a lot of my own maintenance too but since I don't have a tuneboy or the Triumph gameboy I will periodically take it in for service and they will check and update the tune as necessary for me. Good luck finding the solution.

Speed Safe,
Don

 

[jeffrichards1966]

Error codes?

Have you had the error codes read? I'm looking at getting "dealertool" or busting the bank for a Tuneboy to do just that.

Modern engines are very dependent on their sensors - air, temp, lamda (gas out) etc. Given the age of the 'bike they must be candidates. I have experienced surging in the past (in line 4 car engine) which was cured with a senor replacement AND a new thermostat.

 

[oldndumb]

I'm looking at getting "dealertool" or busting the bank for a Tuneboy to do just that.

I think you might have that reversed, and will find that bank busting is more appropriate for the dealer tool. Comparatively speaking, the TuneBoy is more affordable.

 

[schultzboy]

thanks for the replies guys.

i can probably go ahead and knock off the battery from the list. a year ago i had some bad issues with it not starting at all. turns out after trying just about everything it was the battery. it was the stock unit and would say it was holding a charge but once you tried to start the bike it would totally discharge. a new high cranking amp battery later and it starts like a champ. plus i have a battery tender that i keep it on during cold weather and extended non-riding.

i guess a ride back up to the dealer is the easiest thing to do first. if it is just a new program then that would save a lot of searching for phantom bad parts.

is there a way to see if there are codes thrown on the bike without a tool? there are no idiot lights in the cluster that are out of place. is there supposed to be a "check engine" or "maint req'd" type light that comes on in a car?

 

[DaveM]

Welcome

Hi and welcome to the forum Shultzboy

If you are not familiar with the Tuneboy device this is their website;

http://www.tuneboy.com.au/

Don and I all all our new peeps to please take time to read our forum stickies, thanks in advance.

Enjoy the forum.

DaveM

 

[Pickle Jim]

Surging at the revs and load situations you describe sound like a mapping issue.
At round town revs the map is retarded and leaned out to make the engine quieter.
Trouble is any movement of the throttle means not only do you get the effect of the opening but also the map advances the ignition and adds more fuel.
I run a map with the flat spot filled in and an 18/43 Sprocket combination to get round it.
Not sure why but some bikes seem worse than others

 

[jeffrichards1966]

Tuneboy & Dealertool price

Dealertool is UK£65 (approx US$96) and Tuneboy is A$515 (US$375). Dealertool reads codes and can balance throttles, so a small portion of what the mighty tuneboy does. One dealer visit skipped will pay for it.

 

[oldndumb]

jeffrichards1966, either something is amiss, or you have come across an opportunity to make some coin. I can assure you that you can resell any dealertool that you purchase at US$96 for a tidy profit.

The best prices I have found are:
Engine Management/ABS Diagnostics Tool $1457.59
Memory Card $506.95
Cable $139.27

A TuneBoy (cable included) can be purchased for well less than the price of the factory memory card alone.

With the official Triumph tool you can only upload premade factory fuel/ignition maps (available only to authorised dealers) and do basic diagnostics, with TuneBoy you can in addition modify maps and ECU variables (rev limiter, speedo error etc.) to suit. It will also do the throttle bottle balance for +05 1050s.

Your quoted cost for the dealertool is more akin to a dealer shop charge for an hour and a half of tool use and labor charge.

But if you can get one for that price I say jump on it.

 

[LoVel]

You may want to make sure you hooked the small black hoses to the gas tank correctly. I had the same problem after my 12k service. The dealer had put the bike back together wrong. You could also have a pinched or disconnected line.

 

[jeffrichards1966]

Third party Dealertool

Quite right OND, the official tool is pricey. I've heard £1500 in the UK.

The one I referred to is a PC package -

http://dealertool.web.officelive.com/interest2.htm

It does have Triumph features. For the money it seems a nice tool; it won't upload new emc maps but I'm not in the market for that. Tuneboy would be the next step up; sadly neither helps bleed ABS brakes, which the official tool has a whole set of screen options for.

I wonder if a co-hort of bikers, eg in London, would participate in buying the main official tool, or be prepared to hire it; I don't know if the retail version would be coded to just one bike, as both Tuneboy and "dealertool" are.

 

[oldndumb]

Good find on that, jeff. :bighand:

Although it does not do ecu remapping, not everybody is interested in that. The ability to run full diagnostics and TB balance makes it extremely useful.

Good to see, albeit slowly, that alternative sources for accessories for our choice of bike are appearing.

BTW, it has been reported that, unless you have broken into the system and changed components, you can do an ABS brake bleed without the tool.

 

[Calliway]

Dealer tool???? That is bloody cheap! I was going to buy another Tuneboy but that has me thinking......

 

[lctrc]

The fellow I bought my '07 from complained of something similar in this thread:

http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/83485-my-new-07-sprint.html

I have to say though that I have never experienced, on the very same bike, what he described.

 

[Calliway]

Depending on mileage and fuel used a fuel filter might be in order and a check on the plugs.

The fuel filter isn't an easy thing on these bikes and really wouldn't need to be looked at under 30,000kms but there is always the potential.

 

[KevyKev]

That DealerTool sounds promising.....but, at quick glance, does it say anywhere that is specifically will bleed our ABS system? I couldn't find it.

 

[jeffrichards1966]

"Dealertool" doesn't include ABS bleed and in an email last week they told me they wouldn't consider it because of liability in an accident.

Tuneboy are considering adding ABS bleed functionality. They have said they will add it but doubtless more expressions of interest, to justify the effort, <hint> will help

 

[KevyKev]

Figures re: the liability crap. Really, Triumph shouldn't have sold the bikes to us in the first place. I mean, don't they know motorcycles are bloody dangerous! They could kill you! LOL.

Anyways, I'm hoping Wayne does add the functionality to TuneBoy. Since regular brake fluid changes are good, having the ability to completely change/flush the entire system would be a major benefit to buying the TuneBoy. Matter of fact, it might even be the most used feature for ABS owners.